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You're (probably) Playing Trickster Wrong
Now obviously he needs a few things, notably being:
A 5% speed boost to his base speed
Knives bouncing off walls base kit
No recoil (or at least VERY little) as recoil on a knife-throwing character is absolutely senseless... they're knives... not a gun. Guns have kickback, knives do not. Nothing has recoil in real life unless it uses explosives (in one way or another and no, a bouncy castle does not 'recoil').
However, people (from my experience) are playing him completely wrong. I watch as game after game, he just pulls out his knives at the start of a chase and hopes he's gonna hit 16 of them on you before you lose him or loop forever (spoiler, throwing like a fool won't work). He. Is. Not. Huntress.
Throwing knives aimlessly in a chase (even if you eventually m1) loses value as the common melee that you could've hit (probably sooner) allows for your knife pressure to increase substantially. The survivor vaults while injured? 3-4 hits, they pallet camp? 2-4 hits. Easy down. The point being, knives shouldn't be used at the start of a chase (usually). They need to be used selectively to pressure survivors into mistakes and/or out of loops and pallets (unless you're on midwich, in which case, go off with those bouncing blades).
While far from perfect, there is something to be desired in his unique control over loops and enclosed rooms/areas. People slip up when m1ed and on 6 knife hits as they're only trying to get away.
Sidenote, David King could totally brawl the guy.
Edit: Someone brought this up below, he's supposed to play like pyramid head or plague (though he is both slower and worse than these characters).
Edit 2: Some people discussed this, he's slow and loops counter him. His knives are quite awful in open fields so it's better to only use them to pressure survivors away from the loops they would play. Objectively, loops and gyms should just be a deathtrap for survivors.
Comments
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Ight. time to be a m1 only trickster.
#1 NA Best Trickster,
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I think that is the main point people are making: His power has so many drawbacks using M1 is superior.
To even get into a position to M1 with a 110% Killer means the survivor messed up or is not looping properly.
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This is unfortunately true. Ideally, though you m1 the survivor off a gen or start of chase. Otherwise it's hardly worthwhile to keep going as him.
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David could brawl a lot of killers if they weren't armed and powered up by the entity.
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You're right. This would make him play more like Doctor, Pyramid Head or Plague.
And guess what? They're all 115%.
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m1 early, pressure out of loops and gyms with power (yes he is slow, no don't play him as m1, just use his power correctly). 110 killers can't commit to chases well.
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Exactly, he's kind of like a way worse pyramid head.
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Thanks for this post. I want this killer to be good, but it looks like a killer that's geared toward players that are way better than I am. I don't have to do great with him, I rarely win with Legion but I like playing Legion, but I don't enjoy starting the match expecting to lose.
You opened my mind a little, so thanks.
But David King ain't #########, I'm way more scared of Nea.
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We all know she's "secretly" the entity XD I will say though, keep trying (maybe check some videos on youtube, Dowsey really helped me figure a lot of gameplay out).
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I still think playing him effectively is not using his power or using it very rarely. I’ve seen ppl use it to down after hitting m1... but I also saw at several points where another m1 would have ended the chase much faster.
I want to play this character but he needs some work
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I'd agree with you if he weren't 110.
But he's 110, so... good luck pulling off M1 hits at any loops.
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XD Yep. I really want him to be good but y'know. Anyways, this is still the best way I've personally seen to play him as I find strafing left to right while standing still at a medium distance (on console) makes one virtually unhittable. But you'd be surprised about how many free hits you can get from walking backwards and whatnot.
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The point is to m1 before they reach the loop and to only use knives to pressure out of loops as in an open field they are effectively useless.
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Yep exactly, his power is only really useful for getting people out of loops and gyms. Outside of that, strafing works quite well so m1 is more effective (try strafing his AWFUL hit registration, I've been hit like actually through walls several times now).
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No... that's pretty much exactly how I've been playing him in my last few games. Use M2 to zone and punish mistakes but use M1 for most of your actual work. Despite me playing him that way, I have not had a single game as Trickster where my last defendable objective wasn't a survivor on a hook.
That sort of play style might actually function if Main Event was less ridiculously easy to counter. That way... yeah you're losing time as you do a mix of M1 and M2 to both get pressure and work towards your power spike, but you make up that time by using Main Event and opening up a can of pain on one or more Survivors. Michael Myers works the exact same way with balancing M1's and Stalking. The problem is that for Myers it mostly works because EW3 is actually very strong and can (basically) be activated at any time. Main Event... is not near as strong as EW3, is significantly clunkier, and is significantly easier to counter.
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OMG, I totally want to see a throwdown between shirtless David and Trickster now.
I haven't bought the chapter yet, because the only killers I straight up never play are the ranged attackers (Huntress, Slinger, and now Trickster). I still enjoy playing against them though, and I figure if Trickster doesn't vanish into obscurity people will be figuring out how to use him.
I'm also weirded out that so many people on these forums are enraged by this chapter for the exclusive reason that the killer is weak. IMO it's okay for BHVR to not make every killer S tier. Especially coming off the heels of PH, Blight, and Twins, I'm absolutely fine with being given a killer who's weaker than the average. He still seems fun to me, even if I won't be playing him.
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Yeah haha, I think people are just really annoyed. At the very least they need to lose recoil
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My main gripe with the whole he is meant to zone survivors is that the knives are so bad that it isnt even effective for that
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He's not very deep (then again DBD isn't as a whole). Everything that could be tried has already been tried. He sucks.
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People are doing what you suggested. He's just awful when he does those things too. Why would anyone get zoned by his knives? Just eat a few and get to an optimal position until laceration decay kicks in. 2 or 4 knives for every loop? Ok. It's going to take him two minutes to down anybody good at that rate. That's what people are saying is bad about him.
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There's benefit to having the knives take survivors from healthy to injured in that you don't suffer a melee swing cooldown and you can just keep walking after them.
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While he could use some help with his kit, what you've said is right. The most optimal way to play is always go for regular hits first and then throw knives. It's the same people that always throw hatches or always use billy's chainsaw and never go for m1's that say he's bad. He requires a different pace than other killers but people don't want to play like that.
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See... as someone who probably has spent way more time on the "low tier" killers than I should to see if I can make them work... most Killers have at least something they have that can royally mess up the Survivor team in the right context.
Legion's Frenzy might not look like the most impressive ability in the game, but a good set of chain hits will waste so much of the Survivor's time. Throw on Trail of Torment and you might be able to get more good chain hits even after good Survivors know you're Legion.
A lot of people say that Myer's kit is out dated and needs buffs. I don't necessarily agree. Him starting off as literally the stealthiest killer in the game and later being able to flip flop between a very tiny 16m TR and Instadowns and a crazy lunge all have their own value. I've very rarely found a Survivor team that can handle everything a Myers can throw at them in a single game.
I poured 2.5 hours into Trickster last night. Honestly I just don't see much of anything there. Against good Survivors, he's just got nothing to throw at them. Everything with his knives is too easy to counter and unlike Huntress, Plague, and Deathslinger, he can barely punish brief screw ups. Now... he actually is more lethal than Deathslinger or Huntress. I've seen it myself when playing him on the PTB and against friends who are green rank Survivors. If you stay in the open too long he can cut his way through health states far faster than they can. Heck, vs one of said friends I caught him in a large dead zone and cut through 3 health states (syptic) before he was able to get to safety. The problem is that no Red Rank Survivor will get caught out bad enough to catch 24 knives with their back. They just won't. And when they don't, he's got nothing else.
That's the difference, at least to me. Nobody is probably ever going to claim Legion or Myers is S tier, but even they seem miles better than Trickster and better equipped to handle good Survivors.
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Even if the survivor is in the open, the rng spread and recoil can still cause him to miss knives that should have hit. I watched a Trickster whiff knives so close to me that I was surprised none of them hit.
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Legion and Myers are still among my favorite killers. I call Legion with Dark Devotion my Magician's Build, because I can Frenzy all 4 survivors, slug the obsession to go undetectable, and then clutch the match all at once (ta-daa!).
As I've said, I don't play ranged killers, but I'd imagine that people will find some fun tricks to pull off with our new giggly T-poser.
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I appreciate this understanding, many thanks kind stranger!
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"The point is to m1 before they reach the loop"
Good luck doing that as a 110 Killer.
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I think playing as him in the first place is probably playing him wrong.
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XD right now? Yep. Outside of customs, he's not the best choice--but having a bad killer in the game isn't a terrible thing.
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You're right, lets through hit knives off into an open field XD he's a bad killer. Yes, this is true and undisputed. However, it is still extremely viable to get a hit off if you play things well (I main hag, I know the pain of being 110).
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If you select Trickster and press Ready you are playing the game wrong.
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Maybe... but like in the case of Legion and Myers, I can easily see perks you can bring to help deal with their weaknesses and magnify their strengths.
Legion you can deal with their weaknesses in confirming downs with either the ToT or Dark Devotion route or the Endfury Bamboozle I'm All Ears route.
T1 Myers can get easy hits but can't chase, if you want to get value out of that... either instadown perks, or Sloppy + Nurses is your friend. T3 Myers can turn into a juggernaut with Infectious, Play With Your Food, and maybe Bamboozle too.
I just... what do you give Trickster perk wise to make up for Main Event having an unnecessary activation time, making him slower than Survivors, being hard countered by every wall in the game, and on top of that having a lengthy stun and locking him away from his standard knives for way too long? I honestly don't know.
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If you're being a 110 M1 Killer as Hag, you're playing Hag wrong.
Just saying.
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This is an undeniably true point^^ it needs to be patterned if at all.
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I definitely don't as I don't use her like that, she just IS a 110
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But she's not a 110 M1 Killer, is she?
She doesn't have a power that's so bad that it's better to go for basic hits, does she?
Being a 110 M1 Killer is one of the most inefficient plays you could possibly make.
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Nobody's demanding an S-rank killer. Huntress and Deathslinger aren't S-rank, and he's a straight downgrade from either. "The way to play Trickster" in this discussion is actively hindered by his base stats. It actively makes him a terrible killer. The first version of Clown, and current Trapper are arguably better than him. He's that bad.
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Your last note is wrong--open fields are where he's most useful. The easiest time to get someone with knives is when they're running from one loop to another.
I've been playing only Trickster for three days, and here's what I found:
Most building loops are infinites against him, if someone runs to a building then just leave and find someone that isn't in a safe spot.
Don't respect the pallet and force it down even if you have to eat it, then break pallets at short loops and force the survivor to the next loop, when they're running in between loops you can usually get 1 health state down by holding down the button & flinging knives into their backs. Zig-zagging doesn't really help them because the knife aim is RNG.
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