Thoughts on camping and tunneling? (tl;dr at end of post bc it's a lot to read)
Survivor main here. Some people may agree with me and others may not and I understand that. We all have different opinions. But I got into an argument with someone else on social media and I'm here for confirmation.
Does anyone else hate going against camping, but find a legitimate, used strategy? This person doesn't seem to understand the point I am trying to make. Yes, I hate getting camped and tunneled. Yes, I find it a cheap strat. But do I find it as nothing more than pure bm and something that shouldn't be used? ...Not necessarily. Part of me likes the challenge I suppose.
The reason I don't is that even though I don't main killer, I know that usually the killer normally has a good reason for it. I've noticed very few players have camping and tunneling as their default playstyle to win. I've also found out the hard way that not many killers like head on too much.
Maybe you unhooked someone with bt. Maybe you used head on. Maybe you used DS, or got a flashlight save, or a pallet stun that made them drop someone. I had one particular game against a hag where she downed my buddy and I got the pallet stun, and she dropped them.
She tunneled and camped me for the rest of the game. And I died. Did I enjoy it? Of course not. But she had a reason she wanted to do that, even if it wasn't a very good reason. I could not escape from it, because I got the pallet stun at 5 gens left. Had I done it later, I could have made it out, but sadly that did not happen.
Anyway, in this argument, I am comparing camping and tunneling, which this person considers toxic and something that shouldn't be used, to perks like DS and head on, which can be used but are normally used in a toxic way, and shouldn't be used in such a way. I know there is only one reason for camping and tunneling, and that is that the killer wants to secure the kill; but I compare it with DS and head on because I feel like those are the only things for survivors that could be useful and bm and the same time, depending on how they're used. Teabagging and flashlight-clicking are not useful in any way other than to get the killer's attention. They will not help you escape (or win in this case).
During the argument, I clarified for this person: if you get unhooked and the killer only wants you, so you hop in a locker before you get downed so you can use your DS (because if you get downed and the killer is smart, they will leave you down and wait the timer) and hopefully get away, that is fine, and it's an example as to how the perk was meant to be used.
On the other hand, if you get unhooked and you practically force the killer to down you and/or pick you up again by teabagging, running at them, spamming fast vaults, waving at them, etc. and pretty much harassing them all so you can use DS or head on, THEN it's toxic. You see what I'm saying, right?
I get that camping and tunneling are "toxic" and rude, but they're still legitimate strategies that any killer who has perfected them can get a 4k. THAT is the point I am trying to make. Not that they SHOULD be used, or that they are strats that are fun to play against; simply that they CAN be used, and that they more than likely WILL. And that all you can do as the survivor is play to counter them the best you can. You cannot stop the killer from tunneling or camping you if they are determined to do so. The only way to do that is to DC, and DC'ing is the game-wide version of pussying out.
Because I explained this, this person is now upset because I'm "exactly what's wrong with DBD by condoning terrible behavior". I recognize that I condone it, and I don't feel bad about it because that IS DBD. That's nearly the whole playerbase. My logic is this: if you can't take the toxic, even though you KNOW that most of the playerbase is the same way, why are you still playing? If you can't get around it, it's your problem because not many other people are really going to care about how you feel while playing. Sorry, but that's the way the cookie crumbles, my friend.
Sorry for the rant, but I'm appalled this person really thinks that whining and throwing a tantrum over it is going to change anybody's mind. This is Dead by Daylight, not Dead by Love and Friendship. Grow up.
TL;DR: Person mad bc strats are "toxic". People will play however they want and there is nothing you can do about it but try your best to counter it.
Comments
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This rambles a lot for very little pay off.
Tl;dr seems to be "Nobody likes being tunneled or camped, but its going to happen"
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Sorry, I'll add that in, didn't think about it. Thanks.
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Unfortunately it is a prevalent thought pattern here. People tend to believe that they are entitled to have a great time every second of the match, but losing isn't fun, so they get upset. Glad to see Survivor mains out there that understand it's just a game and both sides are trying to win :)
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I think I can agree with what your saying.
Here is my view on tunneling and camping. In my opinion tunneling and camping are completely fine and valid strategies. These are strategies the killer can use to try and win the game. These strategies are not inherently toxic. However I think its important to realize that it's not the strategies themselves that's toxic its the intention behind the strategies that's toxic. By which I mean camping and tunneling a person to be toxic to that person. Some people have been camped and tunneled for extremely petty reasons. Like playing a certain character, using a item, or even wearing a certain cosmetic. At that point they are not using the strategies to win they are using the strategies in order to make the survivors game unfun and that's what I think is toxic.
Remember camping and tunneling to win is fine but doing it for some petty reason and to make someone's game unfun is toxic imo.
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Right? Thank you! They assumed I haven't played killer bc I find camping a strategy. I do play killer, not very often, but I try not to camp or tunnel bc I know how it feels and my killer stays at grey ranks bc I dont play often. I don't want to deter new people from playing the game, you know?
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Yes, thank you. You understand the point I'm trying to make.
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Absolutely.
Honestly while I don't care for being camped, I am beginning to love being tunneled. The chase is the best part of Survivor, imo and much more fun than fixing gens and breaking totems. Even if I am camped I know if my team is decent they'll "punish" the killer by winning the match and escaping.
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Camping really does suck gameplay-wise, but it's understandable for sure. But it's also gratifying as hell when you can manage to pull of a successful rescue from a camping killer. Those are the moments I play for sometimes
Had a Wraith face camping someone to the point where they weren't even looking around. Came up behind him and starting poking him and my friend came around the other side in front of the killer and taunted them. They started chasing them just a bit which gave me the opportunity to make the save. Wraith turned around, I took the hit, and we all escaped :P
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YES. Being tunneled the whole game for no valid reason just to run out the gates or hop through hatch is one of the best feelings. Problem is I still suck at looping lol
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Do I find being tunneled or camped fun? No, but I can usually think back to the events leading up to it and a flaw in my strategy and thus accept my mistake.
Honestly, I get more mad if somebody farms me off a hook when the killer is clearly camping. XD
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I play both sides fairly equally and I encounter a LOT of campers and tunneled. Now I don't care if they want to do it personally. That's for them to decide. What I don't agree with is when they choose to do it at 5 gens. Camping someone late game sure. As killer you do feel the pressure when all 4 are still standing and you need to slam on the pressure somehow so that's fine. But what I don't understand is why do it at 5 gens. I know gens can go fast and as killer it does make you feel powerless when it happens but I feel like someone deciding to just outright camp and tunnel 1 person at the start is them throwing the entire match. Now I don't camp or tunnel at any point but that's more personal preference. If I'm going to lose so be it. I just wish there was more alternatives for killers to take when the match starts going out of their control over what we currently have.
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I love doing that. I've done it with randoms and it's one of the best feelings lol. I've done it to many a bubba before
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Survivors probably wouldn't mind being tunnelled so much if survivor queue times were better. Get tunnelled? You get to leave this match earlier and start the next one.
Sure it's disappointing to lose the game quickly, but that's what happens when you get caught. Your job as the survivor is to not get caught by the killer. Nowhere does it say you're supposed to get caught and escape a certain number of times.
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I agree with that. It's no fun at all to be tunneled at 5 gens and camped to death just for playing nea or some bull. At 4 gens, meh. But after 3, I'm usually mentally prepared to deal with it.
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They are legit strategies but they should balance the killers so those strategies are less effective or appealing so killers can do other things. Ironically I believe that's the issue in most cases is that the killer feels that's how they will win is by playing a unfun strategy.
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I'm going to expand a bit on what I said above a bit.
I think what people need to do is two-fold.
First, they need to just stop tying meanings to actions in the game alltogther. What appears to be "toxic" to you may be just somebody who doesn't know better or is trying to do a Rift challenge (I just picked up one today that would encourage the use of NOED and Blood Warden).
Secondly, they need to stop looking outward and look inward. Anytime you end up in a "Failure state" in the game (you're downed, survivor got away in various ways, ect) the first question a person should be asking themselves is "What could I have done differently" AND BE HONEST WITH THEMSELVES. Because if you think you played 100% flawless, you're not looking hard enough. Most of us are not that top percent of players - there's always something we could of done better.
If people look inward and see their own mistakes and focused on that, they'd be less upset at what other people do.
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And in those cases, killers feel they need to use 'unfun' strategies because survivors are too good, or more specifically, they can complete gens too quickly when coordinating.
Survivors want to run the killer for a while in a chase. Killers want to chase survivors, both get points out of this. But the killers also need to end chases and eliminate survivors ASAP because before you know it, 3 gens have popped and you've pretty much lost the game.
That said, there are many perks that discourage camping and tunnelling, and killer perks do it best. Things like Devour Hope, BBQ, Ruin, etc. Using perks like these makes camping and tunnelling less effective strategies, while appearing to the killer to improve their performance. Thus perks like this are a healthy, positive way to tackle it.
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Camping is literally the most selfish, obnoxious method of playing than anything else in DBD.
Camping forces killers to stick to one survivor and do nothing else.
Survivors also have to play selfishly or must replace the hooked one instead.
Both don't get objective points and both waste their time.
So it's ultimately a crap experience for both parties.
If you are here to camp, then you need to go find another game cuz this one's not for you.
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I think it stems from the grey ranks. In those ranks, camping and tunneling the only ways killers know how to get a kill, because they know if they leave the hook, someone will get unhooked, and then escape is possible, and they can't let that happen so they chase them down until they are dead. They want to win. Then, once they climb the ranks, they get better at camping and tunneling and continue to use it. I know the game awards less points but some killers might actually feel like that's the only way to win, and a lot of people in this game think that winning=fun.
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I agree 100%. Usually if I get downed at 5 gens, it's the bad luck of spawning near killer paired with my own inability to loop and run properly lol
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There are cases where camping is a valid or necessary option.
EGC, in order to secure a kill, you have to camp. You literally have no other objectives as a killer, no more gens to defend, you only have your hook and the survivor hanging on it. If there are three other survivors in the game, then by trying to go for another on you are almost guaranteed to lose the one you've hooked and finish with 0K.
You hook someone, and you 'know' for a fact that there's another survivor right there ready to rescue the moment you leave. You saw scratch marks or something similar. What option do you have? Even if you're running anti-camping perks like Devour, leaving the hook will end up with that survivor being rescued before you get far enough away for it to trigger.
You hook someone, and there are TWO other survivors plainly standing in your FoV, not even attempting to hide. Their obvious plan is for one to bait you away while the other goes for the rescue. Both standing at minimum safe distance so that even should you go for the chase, you probably won't catch them anytime soon. They'll run you for 2 minutes and then all the gens will be done.
This is what rank 1 killer matches look like.
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There's nothing to be substantiated for the validity of camping in any situation. It's still a personal choice.
You want to secure a kill? Fine, camp.
Does it ruin the experience still? Absolutely.
Your necessity to secure a kill shouldn't dictate the way you play the game, but if you are willing to play dirty just for a measly kill or two, go for it.
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I'm sorry. As a killer, I shouldn't want to win?
Survivors are allowed to do any ######### things they like but killers are expected to throw the game for the benefit of survivors.
Next time you play survivor, why don't you offer up a little altruism towards the killer? Say "no, I won't hit my skill checks, I'll make sure to regress the gen a bit and show the killer where I am, to be a good sport" or perhaps "I can see the killer is coming towards me and I nearly have this exit gate open, escaping would be a really ######### move so I'll stop opening the gate and let the killer down me so he can get a kill." After all your necessity to escape shouldn't dictate the way you play the game.
If you think those suggestions sound insane, then you will understand why killers camp.
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Ok. I'm curious. When you are playing killer, what is your end game strategy?
I'll lay out a very common scenario. All gens have been completed, you just won a chase with a survivor, so he's Slugged at your feet, you look and can see the at least one of the gates are at least 99d, if not open.
What do you do next?
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Main killer here as my name says, obviously, and I can tell you how you easily can counter these strats.
If you are not the one being camped or tunneled just sit on gens.
That's the single and only best way to counter those strats.
There's 2 reasons decent killers resort to these strats: they are so mad that they believe the game is over, or they are trying to bait your whole team.
Most likely if the killer is not a newbie, you will find the latter scenario.
They do it in order for you to get mad at them, getting people away from gens, while getting some free hits and maybe downs.
Don't fall for the bait, specially if it's basement and you thought you already won, because in basement the killer can turn the tide of a game if played smartly.
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Against good survivors you will need to do some variation of camping, tunneling, or slugging if you want a chance at winning. Emphasis on the "good". That's just facts. Most average matches however, even at rank 1, this is unnecessary.
People will still do those things even if it's unnecessary though because the game incentivizes you to actual kill the survivors more than hook survivors as it's a big part of your scoring. IE back to the hooks vs kills debate.
Honestly though there is way less camping/tunneling than people like to exaggerate. Most the time it isn't really genuine camping or tunneling anyway and the survivors just played bad but are unable to take any responsibility for their or their teams mistakes. Excuses are always easier.
I could care less about slugging. The hate for slugging is just irrational. I would always rather be slugged as it gives me a second chance at life, I actually can do something (rather than sitting on a hook afk), and I have perks I can run to counter it if I so choose.
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Killers cant win, its toxic and unfun. Survivors can do whatever they want and its fun and the killer has to deal with it. Survivor also ask why their queues are so long, i wonder why.
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If you really don't know the difference between fair play and dirty play, then I have no words for you.
Whenever I play as a survivor or a killer I don't do everything in my power to secure anything.
I don't secure kills nor do I with lives. Just play and whatever you do is the result.
Being a sore loser and camping just for a few kills is like looking at a kid throwing a hissyfit. It's pathetic not to mention selfish and obnoxious.
I don't have to play a game where I must forego my dignity and sportsmanship just to win. That's how a 5 year old child thinks. Just saying.
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I expect you to be offering yourself up to the killer as a sacrifice then, if you don't consider winning to be important.
I'm on the bloodpoint grind. I estimate I need somewhere in the ballpark of 50 million bloodpoints to even make a dent. A successful sacrifice is an additional 1,250.
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I hate to say it, but you sound just like the person I was arguing with elsewhere. My point was that sometimes its necessary. If you don't believe that then you probably have never played killer. I've only played killer once or twice, but even I have had situations where I was either forced to camp or someone went for the save the second I hooked and took a step back and then accused me of camping.
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Is that what you got out of my statement? Hmmm okay.
No, I don't go up to a killer and sacrifice anything. Why should I?
If I play as a survivor, I did my best and that's that. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.
Same with playing killer.
I sometimes let survivors go if I enjoyed a match or so. It's nothing that's demanded nor is it compulsory.
Just playing the game as it is and doing your best is what counts. Camping is for little brained people who can't do anything but to abuse their powers sorry.
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Never seen you before so that's a first for me.
I have played plenty of killers before.
Sometimes I get frustrated when things don't go the way they should. But still I try my best and I may not get the points I need.
TOO BAD.
That's how life works sweetheart.
I don't need to camp and ruin people's enjoyment simply I want to secure a few kills. I hope you get that.
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There is no such thing as "fair play" in dbd. If you're going to complain about what's fair, then find another game bc this one's not for you.
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Did you read my initial post?
Being in those situations, where you have no choice but to camp, knowing that if you leave the hook you're GUARANTEED to lose (not just let them make a rescue which you can claw back, but actually lose the game entirely from) is just as 'unfun' as getting camped.
If I see two survivors boldly standing in front of my at minimum safe distance baiting me out for a guaranteed hook rescue, that's just as 'toxic' as camping. There's nothing I can do I that situation, the survivors have all of the power and I'm their #########.
So what do I do? throw the game, lose the sacrifice bloodpoints and let them win? Why can't the survivors do that? Why can't they let the hooked survivor die and lose out on the altruism bloodpoints? They may even still escape themselves.
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Lol, I meant it as a terminology not a feature of the game, but whatever.
No, there can be fair plays.
No camping.
No Tunneling
No T-bagging
No obnoxious survivor BMing.
etc
Maybe you never experienced a match like that before.
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If you've never seen me, you must be blind, because I made the original post. In fact, I specifically said exactly what you said: "I get frustrated when things don't go the way they should, and I may not get the points I need. But that's just how life works."
Are you switching sides then? Because it now sounds like you're agreeing with me.
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You've already lost in that situation, buddy.
If you were so capable in the first place, you wouldn't have ended up in that situation.
So, like I said. You are basically throwing a tantrum just to keep a few kills that'll make you feel better about yourself.
Grow up and get over it.
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You declared that I was an individual who had past history with you, which I denied the claim.
And regarding that small part, yes I do agree.
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I have, I just don't see it often enough to recognize it. To come into this game and say "that's not fair you can't do that!" to something that's a part of the game is the same as walking into a bar and telling everyone drinking is bad. Is anyone going to listen to you? Of course not.
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Nah. I've hooked a survivor fair and square. If they want that survivor back, they have to come and get them. I have no other objectives if all the gens are done. They have to risk getting hooked themselves if they want to rescue their team mate, not "play dirty" by baiting me out while another goes for the rescue and they all escape.
If the survivor on the hook was so capable, they wouldn't be there.
See what I mean? One rule for survivors, another rule for killers.
Why don't you grow up and get over the hooked survivor you can't save, instead of playing dirty to get them?
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I said this person I was arguing with was on a different social media platform. They never would have "seen" me.
On the other note, thank you for clarifying you agree with me, at least to that point.
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Do you even know what "fair play" means?
If you do, you wouldn't have made that ignorant statement.
There are plenty of times when killers and survivors gave respect to each other, regardless of who won.
That wasn't because they were friends, it's because both acknowledged their prowess and never made the game feel atrocious.
Camping is the complete opposite of that where it makes one side feel much superior than the other without much strategies to counter it.
That's not the same as the aforementioned example now is it?
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What?
What is that logic?
Am I arguing over whether a survivor has the right to get hooked or not? NO
I am specifically talking about CAMPING. Stick to the topic please.
You can down anyone you want. It's their fault sure.
But camping is a stupid decision to make as a killer.
It's both obnoxious for both parties and why would you want to make a match like that?
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Outside of these situations, I'd agree, camping is a poor move, and often detrimental to the killer if the survivors know what to do about it.
I'm arguing for these specific conditions, cases where camping is a required strategy, so I'm not changing the topic at all.
You're the one taking the absolutist stance that it's NEVER allowed. If it was never allowed, it would be a reportable offence.
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I'm aware of that. I've respected killers and they've respected me. And even better-- I've still respected killers who camp and told them "gg wp" because despite the camping, I still had fun playing against them. As long as the camping wasn't the whole game long, it's fine.
So then, tell me. What is "fair play", exactly?
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So judging by your statement, as long as the duration of camping is tolerable it's fine?
Even though I don't really get your standards, I guess I'll respect it.
Oh, and regarding fair play, the results are a google search away.
Here's a start though, take a good read:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship (Redirected from Fair Play)
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The other person's fun is the last thing on my mind when I'm in a PvP oriented game. If a person can't handle getting their asses handed to them in a manner they disagree with, they have no business playing the game in the first place.
I'm not saying that to be edgy or mean - that's just a fact of gaming. We have literally hundreds of games to choose from. Why waste time in one that makes you so miserable you feel the need to project your way of thinking on to others to the point of calling them toxic or obnoxious when it can be argued there's tactical reasons for that strategy.
If somebody is dumb enough to get downed between the last 3 gens, there is literally no reason to leave the hook. To leave the area is the epitome of stupidity tactically. And I'm sorry, as you said "too bad" regarding blood points, I'm not about to "dumb down" my play to spare another player's feelings. You either come into the game bringing it, or you don't. If you can't handle people who bring it, then ask yourself why are you dealing with it - because you aren't going to put a stop to it either way... why put yourself through that hassle?
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You do realize that competitive games have always existed throughout HUMAN HISTORY right?
Case and point, every single athletic games have always been competitive (i.e. football, basketball etc)
That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a glimpse of sportsmanship.
Your "competition have no room for ethos" is a rather crude argument since competition has been present all this time and yet people are still expected to be a good player with good sportsmanship.
Why should computer games be different?
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That article means nothing here, because my whole point was that you cannot change how other people want to play the game.
Camping is fine either way. Yes it bothers me when I'm camped at 5 gens still, but after 3 gens and no hooks, I expect it. I still wouldn't consider it garbage though. That's the way the killer felt like playing. And I felt like not letting it bug me.
Is that a crime?
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This. Exactly it.
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