The fact that since DS "nerf" people started complaining about it proves something
That DS wasn't being used as an anti-tunnel perk, but rather, as a huge crutch oppressive perk.
The core functionality of DS and why people should use the perk hasn't changed: If I tunnel a person who's been unhooked I'll get my ass DSed.
That's still happening. It's still a anti-tunnel perk.
Then why DS has dropped to B in the tier list and people stopped using it? This is what's really interesting to me.
It clearly shows that the main intent of people running this perk wasn't to stop tunneling, was to a have an oppressive god shield.
Because that's what DS was, a nonsense shield.
Even if you weren't tunnelling a survivor could repair a gen in front of your face because they new they had the god shield and as much, you could only slug them, but their hiding teammate would get them back up in seconds and start repairing again.
DS changes were meant to remove that nonsense mechanic DS had to be a god shield, which was basically a complete crutch people relied on, and most of the time you getting DSed didn't mean you were tunnelling, just that you forgot that person had DS after almost 1 minute.
Has been interesting to see this huge tier drop in the list for DS, it has shown the real reason why people were using the perk.
If you no longer use the perk but you spammed it before, clearly your intentions weren't anti-tunnelling ones.
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Although more people should use DS with the issues of tunneling, something does have to be done to make tunneling less common. If it be DS working like Nemesis, an obsession being base game regardless or something else, but something does need to be done.
Old DS was overpowered, and this change is a step in the right direction, but its undeniable that the game for survivors is a lot less fun especially in solo queue where you can't just tell your friend "Hey, we should all run DS so tunneling doesn't work."
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Otz or Scott I can't remember who, stated once that DS was so overpowered that it wasn't being used for anti-tunneling just as a shield.
You could notice there was a problem since survivors could use DS against you even if you weren't tunnelling...
This was a MAJOR red flag.
Survivors had basically 4 minutes of immortality in total if they all run DS.
Almost all gens can pop in 5 minutes, this is an interesting comparison.
If you didn't get DSed they had a full minute god shield AFTER EACH UNHOOK. This was completely crazy.
This meant that one survivor could be unhook and after 40 seconds, which is a long time, if I come across this survivor which I clearly wasn't tunnelling, I'd get DSed.... So #########?
On top of that, during those 40 seconds they were chilling on gens.
For real, people who stopped using this perks, those weren't using DS for specifically anti-tunnelling reasons.
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your name is accurate.
The ds nerf was good but the way most ppl on forums turned it into "yada yada surv player bad" is cringe.
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I'm not denying any of that, all of that is true and it did need a nerf, but something does need to be done to reduce tunneling without making DS an overpowered perk again.
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If they eat the DS they lost a ######### ton of time and pressure.
Anti-tunnelling doesn't meant you CAN'T die by tunnelling, is making the killer lose a lot of time and pressure if they decide to tunnel...
Which eventually leads to the killer losing the game.
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Escaped a noed pig because of ds and people say it's useless
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That problem happened before DS nerfs also.
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It needed a nerf and I’m glad it got one. But now we just need an obsession in every lobby. More points for everyone and easier rift challenges plus less tunnelling
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Killers still tunnel despite there being an Obsession
...That or i just have ttv in my name and they just tunnel me off hook since i am a ttv,
But Ds nerf was needed imho..
I hate Ds 100% and i play both sides,
Just like Ruin / Undying combo wombo,
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There's been plently of threads about what could be done, and each time you have people cry bloody murder about how tunneling, camping etc are valid tactics, necessary etc.
The community is sadly full of egomaniacs who perceive curbstomping people through abusing mechanics as 'skill'
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Why do people constantly bring up some steamers names as if it meant more credibility? You should honestly try to think for yourself and come up with your own ideas. Naming some random guy just because he records himself playing really gives you nothing extra. It takes credibility away even.
As for the rest of the thread, I did use it for tunnelling, and now that the perk is useless nobody carries it. Simple as that.
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I hope they find a way to deal with those skill deprived egomaniacs!
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Not sure if sarcastic or not.
If not: the mechanics are there. We already see that the game can tell who is being chased, what people do, etc.
So, for example, if you rush towards an unhook and then go after the unhooked person they could get a speedboost (even when BT is active if you still go after them) etc.
Same with camping. By what we see in the game so far (it knows when chases start, where characters are etc) it'd be perfectly possible to punish camping by stopping the hookprogression if the killer camps or proxycamps. The came has the mechanics to tell if someone is loitering around the hook or if someone's breaking pallets/gens or looking for other survivors.
Or slugging: the game can tell it's being done and could pick up one of the survivors.
The mechanics are all there.
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I think that it really just highlights that there's a fundamental game design flaw that needs to be looked at with more subtle dissuasion measures, without the need of perks.
Tunneling feels really bad to be on the receiving end of and to watch happen to someone else (unless they're being a toxic clown to the killer). The fact that the only tunnel protection in the game that applies to yourself rather than teammates is locked behind a licensed DLC perk that you have to bring in as insurance if you don't want to risk the killer just removing you from the game really quickly is pretty stupid imo.
*Disclaimer: I think the DS change is one of the best changes they've made to the game and I love it. I just really think BHVR should make tunneling much weaker without the need to bring perks.2 -
But it's not useless! its still an anti tunnel perk..
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This is an interesting idea.
I'm all in for the DS nerf in 4.6.0, but adding an extra functionality such as 3 seconds for no scratch marks seems to fit the concept of DS.
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It's really not. You can't do anything without losing it. That's not a perk at all.
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Why do people constantly bring up some steamers names as if it meant more credibility? You should honestly try to think for yourself and come up with your own ideas
The process goes like this:
- I have my own ideas.
- I follow streamers whose ideas are true to me.
- I use them as an example in order for what I'm explaining to be even more self-explanatory.
As for the rest of the thread, I did use it for tunnelling, and now that the perk is useless nobody carries it. Simple as that.
Why is it useless? If they tunnelling you for real, it will still work, it hasn't changed in the slightest.
If they unhook you, and they tunnel you, you get to use it.
Then, why is it useless?
Is it useless because you can no longer have a 1 minute god shield against everything and chill out for the whole duration?
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Tunnelling is boring for both ends, but until they do some balancing, it will be a completely valid strategy sadly.
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The game would be more fun for killers if we could also have the advantages of perks without bringing them. Survivors use items all the time, and I can't make them drop items without Franklin's. How do I get my name on the list of players that want advantages but don't want the "unfun" requirement of using a perk slot?
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The worst part is that some killer are soft countered or completely countered by items. Maps shows traps (Trapper/Hag), flashlight break Hag's trap and can burn Nurse or Wraith.
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Other than keys, most items are fine. Gens going too fast is a bigger problem, which also needs something like an early game start up where gens are slower for the first while or something like that.
Basically, many things need changes to make them more fun for both sides without perks being required.
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Actually I used it before as an anti tunnel perk and still try to post nerf.
9/10 times the killer leaves me slugged and waits out DS timer unless I jump in a locker to force a grab.
So idk, if a killer is hell bent on tunneling you they can and will. But I feel like this has always been a thing tbh. If a killer wants to be scummy they can be, getting someone out of the game asap is strong so it's whatever. This is why swf helps though because it can make situations that would be otherwise hopeless in solo queue have a chance which is why I really hope they help solo queue more in the future
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It certainly was.
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DS never stopped killers from tunneling. it only ever punished them for it. and that's still what it does
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So you consider yourself not enough when it comes to ideas. You can't just say "I believe the following". Gotta name someone else. Gotcha.
"God shield" = Stun of 5 seconds -if- you decide to eat it. Most just slug anyway.
You -really- seem to like to exaggerate stuff to make it seem like DS was this huge game breaking perk and without it the game now is a true example of balance and well designed mechanics.
Well no. What this DS destruction did was make it useless. SWF, they can still abuse it. They just coordinate the rescues and heal the survivor somewhere else. What this DS destruction did was just harm solo survivors. The lowest and most frustrating side to play in this game to begin with.
I truly do not understand the obsession of people wanting everyone to be in a SWF team.
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I think its because of the ttv in ya name. Whenever do play survivor and I have a teammate with ttv in the name I've noticed they get tunneled out of the game more often.
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DS still has plenty of potential. Alongside the anti-tunnel aspect, it can still be used to either force a grab from the killer by diving into lockers or leaping over a window (timing it to force the grab. Also it can be used as a defence for other survivors: The killer floors the DS guy, and the subsequent cleaning of the weapon and potential mis-step gives valuable time for others to get some distance.
It's still an extremely useful perk to have, that now requires some creativity to use as an offensive alternative, yet still makes killers think twice.
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Perhaps..
But it gives me better practice to run loops better and effectively =D
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DS still has plenty of potential
Of course! This is because its core functionality never changed, and if you are getting tunneled you'll get to use it.
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DEvs should remove the aura reading from b&c. If killers say something is because it’s a huge crutch oppressive perk too?
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... crutch oppressive perk too?
BBQ an oppressive crutch perk? Don't make me laugh HAHAHAHAHA.
The aura reading ability has a million counters, + killers usually run it for the sake of farming BPs, not for real in-game benefits.
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You said complaining because of a nerf it’s because a perk it’s oppressive, not me
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How are you continuously being exposed to BBQ aura? Please elaborate on the parts of your gameplay that make this aura reading an issue.
Maybe you can bring something new to the table and finally show everyone how BBQ is OP!
I'd suggest explaining how all the counters for its tracking portion are inconsistent, as well as how incentivizing leaving the hook to get other stacks is damaging the game.
Really looking forward to your post - Don't worry about the hints, they're on the house.
You probably have all this game related stuff all typed up and ready to go, anyway!
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It has gone from 60 seconds of immunity to a perk that is now situational and has gameplay requirements on the survivor side. Of course they don’t like it.
The DS change is a reflection of this game as a whole. Its been busted and poorly designed for so long that when balance does come a lot of people are unhappy because they dont know what balance is, they dont care for balance, they think what they had was balance. Survivors want the game to have free escapes and immunity. Heck people used to argue that the old infinities should stay in the game.
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Coming from the guy who made this topic as well...
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Damn, what a fine way of answering to that sir, I gotta respect.
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Of course, and proud of it! ;)
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Nah, just proves face camping tunnelers like yourself are happy it got nerfed cause it's a buff to your scummy game play that you accuse DS abusers of doing to you.
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This. The amount of crying I've seen from other killers since joining the forums has been eye opening. For all the complaining survivors do in game, the amount of bitching here at anything remotely positive towards survivors is shocking. I think the harsh reality is that a lot of killers here simply aren't quite as good at the game as they'd like to believe and have relied too heavily on hard tunnelling someone out the game. Even the mighty SWF which is cried about often, isn't that much of an issue outside of optimal 4 man teams (who aren't even running DS on more than 1 person anyway and for whom the nerf has almost no impact on).
Based on a lot of replies to any DS topic you could genuinely be forgiven for thinking that equipping old DS granted a survivor godlike powers, with Dwight going Super Saiyan and one punching the killer into oblivion. Personally, outside of competitive, a lot of my games have lost any real challenge or enjoyment. People either kill themselves on hook, DC or the match (outside of the aforementioned coordinated SWF) is just a stompfest. No, I didn't like the abusable side of DS either, but what we have now is equally as ######### for the opposite reasons. If we're going to play the "DS is now a true anti tunnelling perk" card, either buff it so that it genuinely holds that status or address the root issue properly. The idea of delegating such a critical aspect of the game to a paid DLC perk is a piss take.
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Who said I camp and tunnel in all my matches and with all the killers? :O
I just use this with Trickster in order to get fun the only way I'm able to with this killer.
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I could care less about DS being used twice if the killer tunnel to death, if anything it will encourage the killer to tunnel less as he will eat 2x5s stun + longer chase while the perk won't be abused by those who weren't really tunnel.
It's one thing to have unbalanced game, it's an other to get beaten by some ######### ass perk that give survivor god like protection for 1min.
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This doesn't strike me as much different from survivors complaining about camping.
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No devs should not
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