NOED Rework
I've been seeing a lot of threads complaining about NOED and had an idea about a potential compromise. So to start things off, I do like the idea of NOED being a "do totems or else perk", but I've seen a lot of people bring up the point that sometimes a particular totem is hidden pretty well and it can be really difficult to find all of them. This is a fair complaint and it feels really bad to have 4 totems completed, but the killer still gets full use of NOED because of that last totem.
For my idea, NOED would work very similar to how it does now with one major exception. Any time a killer hits someone with NOED active, a dull totem will break. If there are no dull totems remaining, NOED's hex totem will break instead and the perk will be deactivated. Note, this does not stop survivors from destroying the hex totem once it's active, it just limits the amount of hits a killer can get from the perk.
This change would make it so that as long as survivors put some effort into doing totems, they at least get some reward for it, even if they are not able to find every single totem. It also preserves the intent of NOED as an incentive to get survivors to do totems.
Comments
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a totem counter for survivors would also be nice. lets say you are totem hunting (why you'd do that is beyond me) and one teammate breaks a totem. you will panic and think that there is one totem left that you havent cleansed. i like this rework but this would be a nice addition to it
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This sounds pretty good actually. I don't think NOED needs any changes (small game exists) but if it gets any changes, this sounds like a more friendly nerf
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Yeah, I don't really think NOED is overpowered or anything, this is more trying to change how it feels to play against rather than how effective the perk is.
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I would just be happy if the only way No Ed activated was by a x numbe of hooks the killer has to get first.
The rest can remain the same. It just had never made sense for me that completing the survivor objective makes it activate.
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It sounds good, but a worry I have is that a totem counter will encourage survivors to go totem hunting all the time, in order to clear all the totems from the game. Then all Hex perks will effectively be nerfed to nothing. They only work because survivors DON'T cleanse every totem.
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No compromise is required. Survivors already have all the tools needed to deal with it. They just choose not too.
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Maps, Small Game and Detective Hunch all counter well hidden totem but aren't meta perk/item so most survivor skip on them.
If they are to change totem they should do something like in this video. That way killer don't feel cheated if a totem is done 30second in a match, can't camp totem and will still benefit from their hex after survivor start breaking bones.
Survivor get to make Hex weaker each totem they break and actually have a second objective worth doing.
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Well while I love the idea I dont understand the complain about the NOED. I barerly see people that uses NOED maybe in 100 matches like 1-2 people only uses NOED. When I play the survivor if I see a totem I will cleanse it. NOED is a perk that is punishing survivors for not cleaning totems which is kinda fair I think. Many survivors are complaining about NOED because they just wanted to rush gens and exit as fast as possible. When they hit by NOED they thought that game just turned due to one perk. It is a wrong perspective and that is why in some games NOED punishes survivor. Moreover as killer you can only bring 4 perks and by taking NOED you just give away your one free perk slot which maybe you are not even gonna use it because the game will finish early or all totems cleansed.
My point is NOED is fine. People should cleanse more totems that is all. It is not that popular perk among high ranks. Many people that learns to play the game stop using it and get better perks.
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This actually is a pretty decent idea...
Rewards survivors for doing the totems, helps the solo survivor, but keeps the power of the perk.
I'd modify it though... have it break the Hex totem, but let the totem migrate to the next available dull totem until they are out. Do that and I'm behind this idea 100 percent.
The change I propose is more in line with how things like Undying work,
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Seem like you were talking about my post but I'm not sure...
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this is in reference to the original post at the start. It's a great idea. NOED still keeps it's power, but every time the killer gets a hit, the totem breaks and migrates to a dull totem. So the amount of free downs the killer gets will be tied to how many dull totems survivors get done.
I have no comment about your post
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That would be a huge nerf to a perk that is only active at the end of the game & if a killer get more than 2 -3 down that mean survivor played badly.
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It's a very small nerf and one I find reasonable as it allows for at least one instant down possibly more depending on how many totems are done.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with the current NOED, but this proposal seems like fair compromise that let's the perk keep most of it's power while rewarding the survivors even if they don't find all the totems.
Even if you get only a single insta-down, it can shift the entire momentum of the game. Just ask anybody who runs Devour Hope all the time and only gets that single insta-down from it before it's cleansed.
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That was my original thought, but then it could create a situation where a survivor finds the NOED totem after it lights up and starts cleansing it, then when they're almost done, the killer hits someone and the totem relocates.
I do like that'd it keep in more in line with other perks though and maybe the situation I mentioned wouldn't happen enough to be an issue. It would be pretty rare, now that I think about it.
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Here's the problems I mainly see with the perk:
- In solo queue, survivors have no means of communicating what totems have been destroyed, mean that either waste a lot of time and risk losing, or completely ignore the perk and hope for the best.
- Unlike other hex perks, this perk requires the destruction of all bones to deactivate it — practically giving the killer a hex perk that requires survivors to do all bones to remove it when the others just require just one.
- In a premade or SWF, this perk becomes incredibly weak as survivors now have the ability to communicate how many bones have been destroyed, thus allowing survivors to know when to stop looking for bones (and start rushing generators) after the threat of the perk has been removed.
How would I make this perk better:
- Make the perk based on tokens — Each totem remaining gives the perk a token.
- Once all generators have been completed, the perk activates (assigning this hex to a random totem) and its totem cannot be destroyed (blocked by the Entity) for 80/100/120 seconds.
- 5 Tokens: Automatically starts the EGC. EGC will pause if the hex is destroyed, until an exit gate or hatch is closed.
- 3 Tokens: Getting hit by a pallet causes the Entity to automatically destroy it while reducing the duration of the stun by 50%.
- 1 Token: Gain a 7% haste effect.
If survivors focus on bones, the strength of the perk decreases once the endgame comes. However, the opposite is also true, perk can be devastating left alone.
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Honestly a totem counter isn't even needed, if you bring small game you just keep destroying totems until it doesn't notify you anymore.
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However, in solo queue, you'd require everyone to use a perk that might not be needed because the killer isn't using NOED. Killers don't have to use perks to counter DS, a perk survivors might not be using in the first place.
Edit: And killers can tell if survivors are using DS based on whether or not there's an obsession in game.
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It doesn't even require everybody bring it, just one person. If people took the time to be that "one person" instead of using the same meta perks that you always see in matches then noed wouldn't be a problem. Im saying if anyone is ever worried about noed then they can always prevent it from even happening in the first place, but time and time again you see complaints about it.
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How would it be more inline with other perk? It's a hex. All hex are either active at full power or inactive when their respective Hex totem are broken.
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I made my own post about a NOED rework similar to this. It removes the hex aspect of it and instead makes it have stacks equal to the amount of totems still up at the moment of the last gen popping.
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Tbf... just leave Noed how it is,
It's fine as a hex perk. People just need to cleanse totems,
If you gen rush the killer and never did totems. That's on you my guy,
Don't blame the killer for Your mistake, plain and simple,
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However, solo survivors can't coordinate who will use it. You might have everyone using it or no one using it, we can't see who's going to take the perk. You cannot expect solo queue players to coordinate who will use what perks, so either no one will use it or multiple people will use it (inefficient). It's a literal mess.
Killers on the other hand, can just play nice to avoid DS. No perk required AND they can tell if there's a potential DS in the game based on obsession mechanics. Survivors can't tell if there's NOED, there's no indicator at all.
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If anyone is concerned about NOED and doesn't make any attempt to counter it then that's their own fault. You can't tell if there's a DS solely by the obsession mechanics, since there's other obsession perks too. Sure survivors don't know if there's noed but you can't complain about it while not doing anything to counter it when you have the means to do so.
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Running Small Game for NOED is like using Franklin's to counter keys. You shouldn't need to use perks to counter other perks, there should be natural counterplay. Yet there isn't in solo queue, even with small game because you still don't know if there's totems remaining or not, so you either waste time being sure you got everything or say, good enough and risk NOED. Heck, the killer might not have it and you did that for nothing.
Yet, killers can determine whether or not there's a DS if there's NO obsession. And, they can just play nice to avoid the perk, no perk needed.
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You don't need to know if there are totems or not. You can just make sure that you're not spotted when the last gen pops and then go look for the glowing, cackling totem. Or, you could just leave through the exit gate. Just as the killer isn't entitled to a 4k, survivors aren't entitled to save their teammates and escape.
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However I play solo queue and when or if I see a totem I cleanse it and I have let to see someone hunt for totems, when you run into a totem then decide to or not to break it you don't need a perk to counter NOED but small game is something you can bring if you want to make sure there's no hex totems and break any totem plus small game also can be used to find traps from a killer like Hag or Trapper
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Certainly a step in the right direction, and sounds like a very good idea.
I think that the main gripe with NOED, however, is that it's kind of a questionable perk in concept. It's a "clutch," perk, which I say without any of that toxic entitled survivor energy, which are in themselves pretty unfair.
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That's what usually happens, we don't look for totems because the lack of communication will have us solo players going in circles for ages trying to confirm all totems are destroyed. This is just for a perk that the killer could be using, we might be looking for totems for absolutely no reason, meaning you see survivors ignore bones since it just cause too much problems than it solves.
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@ihartTrapper Couldn't quote you, so here's a tag.
Small Game does help, it can deactivate the perk. There's a lot of variables because I been chased as someone using Small Game and gotten hit with the perk. I have been too slow to destroy all of the totems because survivors rush generators way to fast and get hit by the perk. Sometimes I get lucky and stop the perk, other times the killer wasn't using it and my time was wasted.
The perk needs to be reworked:
Or, add a totem counter for solo queuers and buff NOED accordingly.
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Thats the thing, you don't need to look for totems throughout the match. Do the ones that you naturally spot when walking from gen to gen. If the killer turns out to have NOED, then you know that you did your part and shouldn't feel guilty for leaving your teammate behind, unless they wasted a lot of the killers time.If you must rescue them, you should 99 the gate and turn up the volume to hear the burning totem. It's how I find it in most matches. Heck, I find Ruin and Undying by sound long before I see them and I don't use any perks to find them.
The only thing solo needs is a candelabra in the basement. Every time a totem is cleansed, one candle gets put out. The information shouldn't be free and involve some risk since cleansing totems removes a whole perk form the killers toolkit, and the basement is risky enough, and it would give killers some reason to run that perk that notifies them if a survivor is in the basement.
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It's fine. Also, it's pretty much the only good perk new players have access to from the get-go.
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It only keeps the power of the perk if its the only hex perk. If you get any other hex perk, it just became worse.
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No, NOED is just fine as it is.
All hex perks rely on luck, and that's how hex perks should be.
Just because you can't find the totem, that doesn't mean the hex perk mechanism needs to be changed.
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