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Please stop buffing killers... Better yet, revert the buffs

Taijitu
Taijitu Member Posts: 54
edited April 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

Let me start by saying that I'm not a frequent flyer of this forum. In fact, I've literally never been here before and I just created an account to write this post begging the devs to please, PLEASE stop buffing killer.

I'm a killer main. I've always been a killer main. But I don't play killer anymore.

Why? Because it's just too easy. Laughably easy, to the point of being boring. It feels like I can mindlessly tunnel survivors, hardly ever use perks or abilities, give no thought to strategy and still rank up.

I came here to share my opinion, and I didn't even have to look 5 posts down to find other players writing about the same thing. So I know I'm not crazy for thinking this or the only person who has noticed a significant shift in balance with the last few updates.

I'm not sure what the impetus is for all the recent changes favoring killers and making life harder for survivors, and like I said I'm not the kind of player who's constantly on forums keeping up with news and posts from the devs. So if that information is already out there somewhere, please enlighten me. But this is the theory I have come up with...

In the past, survivor and killer were fairly balanced. However, at the higher ranks, survivors tended to play in premade teams using Discord, giving them a significant advantage compared to the way the game was designed to be played (without voice chat). The game was no longer balanced at the higher ranks, survivors won more often than killers, and maybe killer became less popular as a result. In order to counteract the apparent imbalance, the devs decide to implement patch after patch full of buffs for killers and nerfs for survivors, and now we are where we are today.

In my opinion, this was the wrong approach. Killer is now way too easy in standard matchmaking, and even when you "lose" a game (3 or 4 survivors escaping) you'll generally still get enough points to not lose pips. Hell, you can even sometimes still gain pips even though you lost.

If I'm correct and the reason for the killer buffs is to attempt to nullify the advantage of voice chat used by high rank survivor teams, then the only way you can ever make that fair is to put voice chat in the game as a standard feature for survivor players. I get that it ruins the immersion, but without that there will always be a discrepancy/imbalance between whether or not the survivors are using voice chat.

A second (and perhaps better) solution would be to rework the pip system for survivors to incentivize play that actually wins games. Combine Evader and Unbroken together into one emblem, then add a second emblem related to gen progress. For example, Lightbringer could be left how it is (points granted based on individual player's percentage of the team's total gen progress) with the second generator emblem being shared among the whole team based on the team's total gen progress so that survivors who distract the killer while their teammates do gens (especially if they are keeping the killer busy primarily through stealth/hiding and not spending much time in a chase) still get credit for helping the team. This would also solve the problem of survivors getting punished with low points/pips when they have a great game where they are never or rarely found/caught/hooked by the killer. Because let's be honest... Gen progress is what wins games for survivors, but it's not what gets you pips. Right now there's way too much incentive for people to everything EXCEPT gens, and people who are focused on actually winning the game (prioritizing gen progress over Altruism/Evader/Unbroken points) get punished with fewer pips.

But yeah, anyway... Regardless of what you guys think the solution is, the current state of the game ain't it. It's ridiculous how many terrible killers I see running around at rank 1 and 2 because it's so easy for them to win right now (or still earn pips even when they lose). And for those of us who actually know how to play killer well, it's just not fun anymore when I don't even have to strategize at all or make any kind of creative use of my perks/abilities/add-ons... I just mindlessly run at people and M1, and even on the rare occasion that the survivors escape I still get enough points to get pips. In other words: boring as hell.

/endrant

Post edited by Rizzo on
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Comments

  • CustomerService
    CustomerService Member Posts: 479

    I mean, yeah. But at this point I think people (especially newer killers coming into the game) really do want the game to kill for them. I've been here since the release in 2016, and I used to play Wraith when insta blind perma sabo no window blocking double BT no exhaustion etc etc was here. I know what it is to be actually frustrated because of the game being completely unbalanced in survivors' favour.


    Today? Lol. That's all I can say.


    You have killers that literally require 0 input for you to 4k every single game. I don't play survivor anymore because it just makes me angry, and I can only play a couple killer matches before I start yawning uncontrollably and get bored.


    A lot of the people screaming for nerfs and more nerfs just want a graphical adventure. Like an interactive story game. "Press M1 / Press spacebar" = win.

  • Taijitu
    Taijitu Member Posts: 54

    Congrats. I am now mostly playing survivor and also escape 75% of my games in red ranks. But I'm not just concerned about my own win rate, and even if I was I win 99% of my killer games which just doesn't seem fair (can only remember losing 1 game so far this season, and it's because I totally yolo'd screwing around with survivors to have fun and not caring about winning).

  • Taijitu
    Taijitu Member Posts: 54
    edited April 2021

    I disagree. I got my rank 1 killer achiev long before all the recent buffs (over 1 year ago) and had no problem doing it. It did take a lot more thoughtful strategy (and maybe some more powerful add-ons) to beat the teams who were clearly on comms, but IMO that's the way it should be.

    It should not be the default condition that killer wins unless the survivors play perfectly and the killer absolutely dominates if they bring any powerful add-ons. But that's what we have now. The survivors have an inherent disadvantage by nature of not being able to communicate, and the only exception to that is when survivors form premade groups and use third-party comms, which I already addressed in my original post. But the solution to that is not to just make killers ridiculously strong, because now people who don't use comms (which is the large majority of players) are at too much of a disadvantage. The game is currently balanced around the exception to the rule, which is survivor teams who use 3rd party comms.

  • CustomerService
    CustomerService Member Posts: 479

    Does that exist? It does. How often do you face these survivors? Once every 100 matches? You do.


    Once every 100 matches you have difficulties winning. Yeah, I believe that.

  • WARW0LF
    WARW0LF Member Posts: 200

    pretty much.

    the killers in this game have their hands held so much by devs.

    when people try to say survivors are the power role, they are thinking of the rare SWF 4 man red rank matches where they had to sweat for that 4k instead of mindlessly play like normal

    sadly it's just business, killer is what brings in newcomers and their wallets, why do you think they haven't nerfed spirit yet or they neglect balancing and prioritize MTX, our fun doesn't make money for them

  • SilentHillOnDvD
    SilentHillOnDvD Member Posts: 487

    How do you know i only face teams like this 1 out of every 100 games i play? You can't prove that's true or not because all you did was pick random numbers.

  • CustomerService
    CustomerService Member Posts: 479

    Because we're playing the same game as the same role. You're a red ranked killer right? I'm from Europe. I play around the evenings. Our experience must be similar.


    So 1 every 100 games is challenging, I agree.

  • TicTac
    TicTac Member Posts: 2,424

    But does it matter? When the survivors are bad, they should be getting demolished. They shouldnt have a chance when they dont learn the game. The player with more experience/skill wins. And when someone has over 2000 hours in dbd he has most of the time a advantage bc of the matchmaking. That goes for both roles, only in solo survivor bad teammates can change it.

  • CustomerService
    CustomerService Member Posts: 479

    Good clarification. Except solo survivor. That's coincidentally what I play. Which is why I keep complaining and the main issue I have. Solo survivor experience is -awful-, unplayable. If I had 3 people to play with I'd be sitting here saying the game is all good and has "a few minor issues" and the "DS nerf seems fair tbh". Which is what people who 1. Only play killer 2. Only play SWF, say. When all you get is matches you have to carry yourself while 3 people look at you on the hook at some point you have enough.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 11,699

    I disagree with pretty much everything that has been said here, but you have my attention. Which killer buff should we revert?

  • Zozzy
    Zozzy Member Posts: 4,759

    The emblem system was designed to incentivise survivors to interact with the killer. Without it every game would end in 4 minutes as the depip squad recently showed.

    Killers are still weak if survivors don't care about pips or have coms.

  • TicTac
    TicTac Member Posts: 2,424

    I play mostly solo survivor, too, and my experience was a lot better in the 24h-MMR-test. I had good survivor almost every match. So i hope MMR will fix this problem.

  • CustomerService
    CustomerService Member Posts: 479

    Well then I truly do hope this is true, I wasn't playing during that test, and you can imagine why. When all you get is frustrating matches over time you play less and less. But my hope for Behaviour is zero. So, even if in theory it's a good change when is it gonna come into play? In 3 years?

  • ActulCasul
    ActulCasul Member Posts: 178
  • Marigoria
    Marigoria Member Posts: 6,090

    Or buff solo Q to be comparable to SWF and then buff all killers and perks according to that.

  • Marigoria
    Marigoria Member Posts: 6,090

    That's the issue with solo Q for me. I'd consider myself above average (at least i do hope so, with having more than 4k hours), but you simply cannot carry a team. If the other 3 or 2 survivors are bad, it's pretty much a gg, not because of your skill, because of the lack of it from the rest of the team.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871
    edited April 2021

    It's ridiculous how many terrible killers I see running around at rank 1 and 2 because it's so easy for them to win right now (or still earn pips even when they lose).

    Here's my baseless belief: The average Survivor in any given rank is potato tier. There are enough Survivors in high ranks who REALLY shouldn't be that it becomes easy to just win as a low-tier Killer running a meme build against the average non-SWF Survivor team. This results in not good Killers moving up the ranks too and being in ranks they should not be as well. Basically, at high ranks, bad players still exist on both sides, and when bad players square off against bad players, the edge goes to the Killer because one bad Survivor can sink an entire team if the rest of the team isn't really good to make up for that. The issue is exacerbated when bad players run into GOOD opponents for obvious reasons.

  • NomiNomad
    NomiNomad Member Posts: 3,181

    Don't nerf killers. Nerfs just make people mad. Something does need to be done about Survivor, but it's not nerfing killer.

    Nerfing would just ruin the experience for one whole side. We need to seriously buff Solo Survivor, somehow, to be near the level of SWF. Nerfs make people angry. That's why people are always talking about nerfs rather than the constant buffs.

  • apathyinc
    apathyinc Member Posts: 473

    This is a good point that a lot of the community doesn't get. The game doesn't have a difficulty slider, if you equip the meta perks, only play SWF, and pick the best killers of course you are going to win a lot. Get a 99% win rate with a perkless Trickster if it's so easy for you.

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2021

    I've only had the game for 2 weeks. Though I've had some wins as both killer and survivor, I more often lose. I've had two matches just this morning in which I was annihilated. Same with my teammates, all of whom were between rank 16 and 4 (why this massive discrepancy, anyway?)

    I played a match against Leatherface that lasted all of three minutes. He knocked me down, the other survivors came near, and as he carried me he somehow managed to race around and knock down all three other characters. One of the lamest games I've ever seen. I played the saloon against Wraith and while the game lasted a good 12 or 15 minutes, he had magnetism and was able to find me no matter how far away I'd seen him hooking a survivor with my perks and no matter how well I seemed to be hidden.

    Played a match against the Demo which went like 20 minutes. Three players down within probably two minutes, one disconnected. The other three of us lasted for about another ten. Then it was down to me and another person who railed me after the game. "What a ######### team", he said. "Thanks for doing nothing Mike, I really appreciate it". Despite the fact that this person was loaded to the gills and bragged about having gotten 4 of the generators "by himself", which meant that I had to spend the rest of the match desperately trying to find the last one and evade an expert Demo player which I've never seen before, so I was in a maze AND trying to avoid a killer with powers I'm not very familiar with because everyone plays Trickster AND I don't know the map layout well because I've gotten the hospital all of probably 7, maybe 8 times out of the whole 16 days that I've owned the game.

    So yeah, for any killers complaining about how hard it is for them because there are people who do nothing but loop and coordinate through Discord and exploit their meta builds (and I'm with you, that would annoy the hell out of me too) just remember that there are also solo players who, based on their stupid rank, may LOOK like they're going to offer a challenge but are really just new people trying to honestly learn and do their best but who do not have the hundreds or thousands of hours in this game that the rest of you do.

    Post edited by miketheratguy on
  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814

    About 4/5ths of my trials, unfortunately. Though I'm not entirely sure if you would call them "good", they do mostly predrop pallets and hold W while the others are on gens.

    But, that's the price of playing in the evenings: everyone cheeses to win. I've been considering turning crossplay off so I at least lose to people that are better in a chase than me.

  • Bumbus
    Bumbus Member Posts: 600

    Demo guy, is that you?

  • Lord_Tony
    Lord_Tony Member Posts: 2,109

    only 2 killers are viable against red rank swf why you trying to get the killer community to quit.

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    This is it, exactly. I solo survivor (I solo everything, I have no choice because my few friends who do most of their gaming on PCs are generally uninterested in the game) and my matches are complete crapshoots. Utter randomness. No predictability or consistency whatsoever. My rank doesn't matter, my low experience doesn't matter. If the game thinks I'm rank 18 then by god, I'm gonna be facing rank 4 players and like it. Hell, it doesn't make a difference when my rank 18 (or 19, or 20) opponents are just de-ranked players or alt accounts of people who have put thousands of hours into this game. I've got less than 200. Sometimes I get a good cooperative team and have a great time. Sometimes as a killer I get 2-3 kills, rarely all 4, and it feels like I accomplished something. I don't even have to win, I don't care if I win. I just want to have fun and not be barked at for not being "g". Of COURSE I'm not g. The game is throwing my raw ass against a bunch of hardened veterans, how the hell am I supposed to gg?

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    This is it, exactly.

    I solo as a survivor (I solo as everything, my PC friends don't seem very interested in the game). Who I wind up with, and against, is a complete and total crapshoot. Utterly random. Because I enjoy the game and put in a lot of matches my rank inevitably goes up, so the game figures "why NOT stick him in a room full of people that are 7-10 ranks better than him"? I'm facing rank 4 killers at rank 18. Not that it matters, being that others who are rank 18 (or 19, or 20) could just as easily be de-ranked experts or alt accounts of people who have put thousands of hours into this game. The slight majority of my matches are fun and feel competitive win or lose (and I don't care about losing, just having a good game as I TRY to win), all the rest are embarrassments because I need to "gg". Of COURSE I need to gg. I've had the game all of 16 days and I'm being put up against people who have been playing the game for a literal half decade. How the hell is a newcomer supposed to "gg" with a matchmaking system like that?

  • RainbowSuperLoki
    RainbowSuperLoki Member Posts: 48

    If you think killers should be nerfed you just need to get better at the game.

  • Alexandra
    Alexandra Member Posts: 98

    I agree completely. This game is just not fun anymore. Killers tunnel like never before and escaping has become ridiculously hard when teammates dont do gens. The game seems to be balancing more and more towards 4 swf sweat squad which I think most survivors are not. Its just not enjoyable. Killers are not afraid to tunnel (thanks to ds nerf) and will tunnel someone out of the game instantly. Escaping for a survivor now seems impossible. Its also not balanced towards 2ks but 4ks. Killers complained enough. Playing killer for me is also boring because its too easy. Yes occasionally there are games where gens just fly but majority of times its easy games. Too easy. Probably explains why survivor queues are instant while killer you have to wait a few mins. Survivor is just not fun anymore. It all depends on how the killer plays if you pip or get bloodpoints.

  • ChiSoxFan11
    ChiSoxFan11 Member Posts: 1,093

    Where are you playing that survivor games are instant but you have to wait for killer rounds?

    There are constant threads on here about survivor lobbies taking forever. I play survivor multiple times a week, 5-6 hours a session, and NEVER have gotten an immediate game. Playing killer, however, is an instantaneous match, no matter what time of day or night. This is in NA, for what that's worth, and it's been that way for the whole year I've been playing (exception for the day of DLC release, since people are inevitably trying the new killer out).

  • ClarityOfWill
    ClarityOfWill Member Posts: 206

    Sorry, but this is such a dishonest take on what happened with Dowsey's game. He went against EMA who were stream sniping him just so he wouldn't be sat in queue for even longer (after getting over 200 wins with only 1 person escaping). They knew what perks he had, what killer he was bringing and what items / tactics were needed to go against him. Without that I'm fairly certain he would have got a 2k at least. This nonsense dialogue that only spirit and nurse are viable needs to die, and quickly. The highest levels of play aren't even remotely comparable to public lobbies, particularly given that tournaments have all sorts of rules in place to stop killers and survivors bringing in OP items or just slugging everyone off the bat. Balancing around tournament play would be the absolute death of this game.

  • DoritoHead
    DoritoHead Member Posts: 3,546

    Fellas, I think I've spotted a Freddy main!

  • CustomerService
    CustomerService Member Posts: 479

    Sounds like your life is a tournament? Every single game for you is a tournament. You're living in a tournament?

  • Swampoffering
    Swampoffering Member Posts: 384

    Killer is not easy, if you play low Tier killers you will see how difficult is for them to Chase survivors and hook them faster.


    The problem in red ranks is the amount of boosted survivors that we can see, SWF players, carried by their teammates but with Green or Brown rank level.

    If I get matched against this kind of players and I destroy them because my red rank is real.... That doesnt mean that killer is OP, that means survivors Need To Git Gud and improve their playstyle.


    If I make 4k on Puzzle map with Legion against red rank survivors, killer is not too strong, that survivors are garbage.