Using Self Care = Admitting you are bad

Blood_Coil_Viper

Thetruth said:

@PinkEricka said:
Killers that use NOED = Admititng you are bad so you have to use a crutch perk.

very true. lotta killer trash in this thread

If you think NOED makes a killer trash then I think you're trash for not cleansing the totems.. No perk decides a killer or survivors skill.. even though some are stronger then others you can't call someone trash because of their perks. Like if I see you in a lobby with a flashlight and I bring Franklin's Demise does that make me trash because I used a perk you don't like? 

M2Fream

Lets clearify something here.
The ONLY reason self care is still a broken ass infinte heal self suffucuent perk and still in the game is because if the devs even mention a self care nerf, the Survivor Selfcare Defensive Cult will review bomb and write the devs death threats. Selfcare is an overpowerd perk. If 94% of players use it, its a damn good perk. Its op. Nothing anyone will say about it will ever change my mind.

yeet

self care is hands down the strongest perk in the game, it's effect just isn't as directly noticeable as say SB, NOED or DS so people don't complain about it as much

Rebel_Raven

Raziel said:

@Rebel_Raven said:
One of the major objectives of a survivor is to buy time to get generators done.
Self care helps buy that time. It's good to waste the killer's time as much as possible.

It also works to the killer's advantage if they capitalize as certain perks counter it, and it also gives the killer more time to hook people.

Asking survivors to please make the game easier on you via insulting them to stop using self care will probably fall on deaf ears.
Lets be real. Survivors are less likely to follow the rules of killers than vice versa. Killers have shown some courtesies from time to time.

Hiding doesn't work too well, flat out running doesn't work too well, lithe is getting screwed by dwindling vaulting points. Stealth is not as easy as all that either, and the slow go route offers the least reward for the risk.
Sure, lets take more tools from the survivors to make it harder for them to survive. Pretending otherwise is pretty laughable. Even if some people can do it, aptitudes vary.

And no, I'm not a survivor main . I play both sides, and not much bothers me aside from SWF.

The problem I see in your argument is that the game, at the very least, promises stealth and then fails to deliver. Should BHVR not fix that first, instead of letting it be broken and giving us other kinds of crutches to stay alive?

I can agree with the lack of decent stealth, but they got rid of those notions with some of the very first killers.
Wraith with bloodhound, and seeing scratches better makes escape damn near impossible.
Sure, don't get seen in the first place, and never run? Easier said than done. Especially since there is an ability that lets him see people while cloaked.

Nurses calling? It's a huge counter to SC unless you're playing against the handful that know both well enough to dodge the perk.

Stealth is not well rewarded as impatience often overpowers the desire to crouch walk, or even walk for the most part.
Me playing stealth is near useless because the other survivors will gladly blow it.

There a ton of really powerful tracking abilities the killer has that makes stealthy approaches a joke. 
If you play a stealth game successfully, you can probably thank someone for being a distraction.
And because killers can quickly find survivors, the pace of the game changes which means it goes by too fast.
With few to no equalizers, survivors would just get slaughtered. They get slaughtered, they get angry, they complain or quit.
So they get perks like self care, which makes some sense as people in their position would probably learn to heal themselves anyhow.
If games end too quick and one sided, the game lacks balance. It will die.

fcc2014

@Raziel said:
Title.

Change my mind.

P.S. Self Care usage is officially declared at ~24%. That means that, on average, 1 survivor will have it each game and the other 3 won't. Do a little check for yourself and make a note of how many SCs you can see each game.

I decided to help you out a bit.

SanKa_Games

Situation:you have no Self Care, one survivour is dead, one is being chased, you're injured. Instead of selfhealing for 24 seconds, you run around the map searching for another teammate or a chest (good luck getting a medkit or even a closed chest). And no, Bond doesn't help at all here, because of it's 32 meter radius which is OK on smaller maps, like Gideon Meat Plant, and absolutely unusable on larger ones, like Pale Rose or Lery's Memorial Institute. Good luck finding that survivour! And you could've just healed for 24 seconds and started repairing already, or even saved that chased guy from being downed!

Oh, and have fun playing with BBQ without ability to self-heal.

redsopine1

ZombieGenesis said:

I don't buy into these ideas that if you use perk X you are, by default, bad at the game. That's true of SC, DS, and SB for survivors and NOED or BBQ for killers. I think there are actually perks that are worse for hampering your ability to get good in this game than those, perks that hurt you as a player more than they do your opponent. Mostly Whispers for killers and Premonition for survivors. These perks teach you to rely on them to tell you where a killer/survivors are instead of allowing you to learn to develop awareness and detection skills.

Even then I wouldn't say someone is bad for using them, I would just say that they may not be doing themselves any favors for using them.

In short, bad players are bad players regardless of what perks they use. You want frustrating? Play against a good player who uses DS, SB, and SC(though I honestly think Lithe is better than SB).

I will admit I've started running noed because I'm reaching close to red ranks and I need it just to saftey and I run whisper if I see a 4man team otherwise I just run nc unrelenting ti So I can make rescues harder and dh (I dont run ruin as I've found running it and dh just nurfs your dh as they hit it thinking its ruin)

DocOctober

What about unreliable team mates or toxic SWFs?

I often run Self-Care in solo-queue, otherwise I could equip No Mither and have the same effect since a lot of those stupid team mates won't heal you or get themselves killed before chance arises.

Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

redsopine1

DocOctober said:

What about unreliable team mates or toxic SWFs?

I often run Self-Care in solo-queue, otherwise I could equip No Mither and have the same effect since a lot of those stupid team mates won't heal you or get themselves killed before chance arises.

Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

Ikr one game I helped save a guy from a camping hag and then I got ditched to die on my first hook or another game saved one from a camping doctor they come back to same me get hooked yet they had more time then me and I'm ignored again because its a swf team unless I'm in a swf team my motto is I dont give a flying feather if your hooked or not (also in most swf teams we dont use come because half I play with don't I do so I let them know if any die on the hook tell the rest what's running or if being camped on first hook (though its also useful to catch hackers when you broadcast the audio in a chatting swf team is hilarious but as a couple of examples one game against a Michal I have footage of him lag switching us as I froze over a vault twice and in mid air and caught him teleporting around the map or a spirit that was not running tinker still finding our last man on a gen nowhere near them

SoylentPixie

@DocOctober said:
Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

This right here. The way things are now when playing solo survivor, is that 80% of the time I'm more scared of my team mates than i am of the killer, for several reasons.

At the end of the day i'll say the same here as i did in the thread about NOED apparently being a noob perk. Like it or not, it IS a perk and it will be used. You can point and tell me that I'm bad at the game and that won't make a damn bit of difference to me. I'm not here to impress people with my L33T skillz, I'm here to have fun. Sometimes it'll backfire on me and i'll get caught by an enterprising killer with nurses, tough luck to me. If a survivor wants to heal me outside of an obvious danger zone, i'll gladly let them heal me rather than use SC, but the odds aren't always going to be in my favour on that score.

DexyIV

Then people should be able to say you’re bad for using Ruin or NOED. But those people are illogical, about as ludicous and illogical as this statement is. 

redsopine1

Also ruin is pointless because if you run it people hit any glowing totems and as I'm a devour hope user that fs me over immediately as I'm trying to have a fun game to make them take time and hide not just oh we got ruin theres a lit OMG not ruin lol (though its easy to tell somone is running dh if they religiously defend a totem)

Unknown

This content has been removed.

redsopine1

SoylentPixie said:

@DocOctober said:
Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

This right here. The way things are now when playing solo survivor, is that 80% of the time I'm more scared of my team mates than i am of the killer, for several reasons.

At the end of the day i'll say the same here as i did in the thread about NOED apparently being a noob perk. Like it or not, it IS a perk and it will be used. You can point and tell me that I'm bad at the game and that won't make a damn bit of difference to me. I'm not here to impress people with my L33T skillz, I'm here to have fun. Sometimes it'll backfire on me and i'll get caught by an enterprising killer with nurses, tough luck to me. If a survivor wants to heal me outside of an obvious danger zone, i'll gladly let them heal me rather than use SC, but the odds aren't always going to be in my favour on that score.

So am I a noob for using them at purple ranks as I'm trying to hit redrank?

Blood_Coil_Viper

Thetruth said:

@Blood_Coil_Viper said:
Thetruth said:

@PinkEricka said:

Killers that use NOED = Admititng you are bad so you have to use a crutch perk.

very true. lotta killer trash in this thread

If you think NOED makes a killer trash then I think you're trash for not cleansing the totems.. No perk decides a killer or survivors skill.. even though some are stronger then others you can't call someone trash because of their perks. Like if I see you in a lobby with a flashlight and I bring Franklin's Demise does that make me trash because I used a perk you don't like? 

It does. Perk is for bad players who cant get not one kill without using that crutch. If some one was able to self care then thats their fault for losing them. oh and DS is fine too

Really though the number one killer could run this perk if they wanted. The player is allowed to use what they want. Even if it's "op" crutch perks. Even though NOED has counters

SoylentPixie

@redsopine1 said:
SoylentPixie said:

@DocOctober said:

Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

This right here. The way things are now when playing solo survivor, is that 80% of the time I'm more scared of my team mates than i am of the killer, for several reasons.

At the end of the day i'll say the same here as i did in the thread about NOED apparently being a noob perk. Like it or not, it IS a perk and it will be used. You can point and tell me that I'm bad at the game and that won't make a damn bit of difference to me. I'm not here to impress people with my L33T skillz, I'm here to have fun. Sometimes it'll backfire on me and i'll get caught by an enterprising killer with nurses, tough luck to me. If a survivor wants to heal me outside of an obvious danger zone, i'll gladly let them heal me rather than use SC, but the odds aren't always going to be in my favour on that score.

So am I a noob for using them at purple ranks as I'm trying to hit redrank?

Uuuuummmm since my point was that neither perk is a noob perk....no?

redsopine1

SoylentPixie said:

@redsopine1 said:
SoylentPixie said:

@DocOctober said:

Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

This right here. The way things are now when playing solo survivor, is that 80% of the time I'm more scared of my team mates than i am of the killer, for several reasons.

At the end of the day i'll say the same here as i did in the thread about NOED apparently being a noob perk. Like it or not, it IS a perk and it will be used. You can point and tell me that I'm bad at the game and that won't make a damn bit of difference to me. I'm not here to impress people with my L33T skillz, I'm here to have fun. Sometimes it'll backfire on me and i'll get caught by an enterprising killer with nurses, tough luck to me. If a survivor wants to heal me outside of an obvious danger zone, i'll gladly let them heal me rather than use SC, but the odds aren't always going to be in my favour on that score.

So am I a noob for using them at purple ranks as I'm trying to hit redrank?

Uuuuummmm since my point was that neither perk is a noob perk....no?

My bad misread it

Foreign_Lanez

@Raziel no Ed =your bad

Raziel

@fcc2014 said:

@Raziel said:
Title.

Change my mind.

P.S. Self Care usage is officially declared at ~24%. That means that, on average, 1 survivor will have it each game and the other 3 won't. Do a little check for yourself and make a note of how many SCs you can see each game.

I decided to help you out a bit.

You, sir, won the internet.

DeadByFlashlight

@Tsulan said:
At this point SC has done so much damage, that i doubt survivors will ever learn to play without it.
I gave up playing without it, because i had to chase other survivors and almost beg them to heal me. Since everyone uses SC, they all asume that you also have it and don´t bother healing you or following you for a heal.

Shows how broken the perk actually is

purebalance

@DeadByFlashlight said:

@Raziel said:
Title.

Change my mind.

P.S. Self Care usage is officially declared at ~24%. That means that, on average, 1 survivor will have it each game and the other 3 won't. Do a little check for yourself and make a note of how many SCs you can see each game.

It is only 24% because you can only pick SC once in every loadout and not 4 times in each slot

Doubtful. Most probability would count this case similar to probability without replacement meaning if you had a bin of 10 different colored balls and pulled out a red one, you wouldn't be able to get the red one again. The 24% is more than likely accounting for the fact that you cannot have it in the other slots.

purebalance

@Blood_Coil_Viper said:
Thetruth said:

@Blood_Coil_Viper said:

Thetruth said:

@PinkEricka said:

Killers that use NOED = Admititng you are bad so you have to use a crutch perk.



very true. lotta killer trash in this thread

If you think NOED makes a killer trash then I think you're trash for not cleansing the totems.. No perk decides a killer or survivors skill.. even though some are stronger then others you can't call someone trash because of their perks. Like if I see you in a lobby with a flashlight and I bring Franklin's Demise does that make me trash because I used a perk you don't like? 

It does. Perk is for bad players who cant get not one kill without using that crutch. If some one was able to self care then thats their fault for losing them. oh and DS is fine too

Can't get not one kill? So they can get kills without it? Good job. 

Really though the number one killer could run this perk if they wanted. The player is allowed to use what they want. Even if it's "op" crutch perks. Even though NOED has counters

Can't get not one kill is not a double negative. Can't not get one kill is however, so stop trying to act smart. Can't get not one kill technically means only 1.

Blood_Coil_Viper

purebalance said:

@Blood_Coil_Viper said:
Thetruth said:

@Blood_Coil_Viper said:

Thetruth said:

@PinkEricka said:

Killers that use NOED = Admititng you are bad so you have to use a crutch perk.



very true. lotta killer trash in this thread

If you think NOED makes a killer trash then I think you're trash for not cleansing the totems.. No perk decides a killer or survivors skill.. even though some are stronger then others you can't call someone trash because of their perks. Like if I see you in a lobby with a flashlight and I bring Franklin's Demise does that make me trash because I used a perk you don't like? 

It does. Perk is for bad players who cant get not one kill without using that crutch. If some one was able to self care then thats their fault for losing them. oh and DS is fine too

Can't get not one kill? So they can get kills without it? Good job. 

Really though the number one killer could run this perk if they wanted. The player is allowed to use what they want. Even if it's "op" crutch perks. Even though NOED has counters

Can't get not one kill is not a double negative. Can't not get one kill is however, so stop trying to act smart. Can't get not one kill technically means 0, 2, 3, or 4.

It's a joke. If you can't see that then don't respond. And you completely ignored the second point 

fcc2014

@Raziel Thank you!

NoxiousOnnyyxx

@PinkEricka said:
Killers that use NOED = Admititng you are bad so you have to use a crutch perk.

Killers using any perk = them being bad at the game lols. I don't think this person could win a single match without using a killer perk. He already seems butthurt at the idea of survivors using self care.

kimukipi

Self care is kinda a double edged sword. Yes it is slow and going to be even slower in upcoming patch but still a good perk considering how often you get bad team mates. SC is great especially if you can loop well and break chases efficiently. It makes you a bit independent and can help you carry your team. Another minor advantage is that you can strategize usage of other perks like Resilience, Dead Hard i.e deciding when to completely heal yourself etc which wouldn't be easier if you try to get healed by your team.

Seanzu

Let people use what they want, simple.

Raziel

@SenzuDuck said:
Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

chococri

Raziel said:

@SenzuDuck said:
Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise. 

Raziel

@chococri said:
Raziel said:

@SenzuDuck said:

Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise. 

Read the main post. I can work around SC just fine as killer. I analysed it from a survivor's perspective and concluded that it supplements lack of survivor skill. Regardless of whether the killer is skilled enough to counter it it makes the game unfair. You have to face the killer not let your perks do it.

I swear it's like nobody can read anything longer than 2 lines.

chococri

Raziel said:

@chococri said:
Raziel said:

@SenzuDuck said:

Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise. 

Read the main post. I can work around SC just fine as killer. I analysed it from a survivor's perspective and concluded that it supplements lack of survivor skill. Regardless of whether the killer is skilled enough to counter it it makes the game unfair. You have to face the killer not let your perks do it.

I swear it's like nobody can read anything longer than 2 lines.

Using SC because you lack teamwork. Playing solo survivor it means you are gonna deal with babies rage disconnecting. After getting away of a chase, I just want to heal and keep working on gens. As simple as that. 

Read that post a few days ago but that response of yours didn't sound like you are talking about survivor's perspective. 

AshleyWB

It would be unwise not to bring self care as it works against freddy. You cannot put yourself in those risky positions you sometimes need to put yourself in. Survivors kinda rely on it and should maybe be part of survivors base kit with how frequent it is used as a perk.

AshleyWB

@Raziel So you think using self care is unfair for the killer.
I disagree killers have their perks as do survivors. Where would killers be without ruin? It's the same  level of top tier perk.

Seems to me you are just bragging that self care isn't needed because you either don't use it and end up fine (or pretending), or you're a killer main who doesn't like it when your hard work is simply gone when they self care.

AshleyWB

It doesn't take skill to kill someone with self care, it takes time if they get the heal off. 

It requires less skill because you are making yourself more obvious to the killer when used. 

I've kinda lost track of who thinks what so sorry if I've ignored every other comment before my comment.

redsopine1

SoylentPixie said:

@DocOctober said:
Often it's not the Killer who's the biggest threat to a solo-Surv, it's the other Survivors.

This right here. The way things are now when playing solo survivor, is that 80% of the time I'm more scared of my team mates than i am of the killer, for several reasons.

At the end of the day i'll say the same here as i did in the thread about NOED apparently being a noob perk. Like it or not, it IS a perk and it will be used. You can point and tell me that I'm bad at the game and that won't make a damn bit of difference to me. I'm not here to impress people with my L33T skillz, I'm here to have fun. Sometimes it'll backfire on me and i'll get caught by an enterprising killer with nurses, tough luck to me. If a survivor wants to heal me outside of an obvious danger zone, i'll gladly let them heal me rather than use SC, but the odds aren't always going to be in my favour on that score.

Dude as soon as I'm lv 15 again I'm running sc just so I can feel safe on my own when I'm loaded with 3 swf team so I know I'm gonna be ok

Mringasa

@Raziel said:

@chococri said:
Raziel said:

@SenzuDuck said:

Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise. 

Read the main post. I can work around SC just fine as killer. I analysed it from a survivor's perspective and concluded that it supplements lack of survivor skill. Regardless of whether the killer is skilled enough to counter it it makes the game unfair. You have to face the killer not let your perks do it.

I swear it's like nobody can read anything longer than 2 lines.

I don't think it's a matter of not being skilled enough. There's been enough times that my teammates refused to heal me up that I'm tempted to make it part of my loadout. I normally don't, preferring to use that slot for something more beneficial such as We'll Make It, BT or UE.

Really, it's more of a Skilled Suvivor Perk imo. You have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer for enough time to use it, and it takes a long time to fully heal. Either that or you have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer, or provide a worse target, after an unhook to use it as well. n00b Survivors will mostly have it be a wasted slot since they'll never really be in a position to utilize it.

Overall, I'd rank it in with BBQ, NOED, etc etc. Each one is useful in specific circumstances, but they aren't active the entire match like Whispers for example. Definitely roughly the same in terms of power and usefulness. imo at least.

chococri

Mringasa said:

@Raziel said:

@chococri said:
Raziel said:

@SenzuDuck said:

Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise. 

Read the main post. I can work around SC just fine as killer. I analysed it from a survivor's perspective and concluded that it supplements lack of survivor skill. Regardless of whether the killer is skilled enough to counter it it makes the game unfair. You have to face the killer not let your perks do it.

I swear it's like nobody can read anything longer than 2 lines.

I don't think it's a matter of not being skilled enough. There's been enough times that my teammates refused to heal me up that I'm tempted to make it part of my loadout. I normally don't, preferring to use that slot for something more beneficial such as We'll Make It, BT or UE.

Really, it's more of a Skilled Suvivor Perk imo. You have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer for enough time to use it, and it takes a long time to fully heal. Either that or you have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer, or provide a worse target, after an unhook to use it as well. n00b Survivors will mostly have it be a wasted slot since they'll never really be in a position to utilize it.

Overall, I'd rank it in with BBQ, NOED, etc etc. Each one is useful in specific circumstances, but they aren't active the entire match like Whispers for example. Definitely roughly the same in terms of power and usefulness. imo at least.

I know, right? You can't trust your mates, I'm always afraid they will do risky unhooks or some dumb actions. Exactly what you said. 

Seanzu

@chococri said:
Mringasa said:

@Raziel said:

 @chococri said:

Raziel said:

@SenzuDuck said:

Let people use what they want, simple.

I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.

It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise. 

Read the main post. I can work around SC just fine as killer. I analysed it from a survivor's perspective and concluded that it supplements lack of survivor skill. Regardless of whether the killer is skilled enough to counter it it makes the game unfair. You have to face the killer not let your perks do it.

I swear it's like nobody can read anything longer than 2 lines.

I don't think it's a matter of not being skilled enough. There's been enough times that my teammates refused to heal me up that I'm tempted to make it part of my loadout. I normally don't, preferring to use that slot for something more beneficial such as We'll Make It, BT or UE.

Really, it's more of a Skilled Suvivor Perk imo. You have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer for enough time to use it, and it takes a long time to fully heal. Either that or you have to be skilled enough to lose the Killer, or provide a worse target, after an unhook to use it as well. n00b Survivors will mostly have it be a wasted slot since they'll never really be in a position to utilize it.

Overall, I'd rank it in with BBQ, NOED, etc etc. Each one is useful in specific circumstances, but they aren't active the entire match like Whispers for example. Definitely roughly the same in terms of power and usefulness. imo at least.

I know, right? You can't trust your mates, I'm always afraid they will do risky unhooks or some dumb actions. Exactly what you said. 

I use it because it's way too often I get pulled of the hook, the killer is damaging another player and the one who unhooks me sprints to the other side of the map.

Raziel

90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:

If you really are good at juking the killer, you WILL NEVER GET HIT. And that means that Self Care is a complete waste. If you expect getting hit, then you admit you are not good at juking the killer. You use self care because it compensates for you lacking this skill.

Seanzu

@Raziel said:

90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:

"90 posts and not enough people are agreeing with me, better make some ludicrous claim that my post was unsuccessful due to "strawman arguements"" Ok sweetie.

If you really are good at juking the killer, you WILL NEVER GET HIT. And that means that Self Care is a complete waste. If you expect getting hit, then you admit you are not good at juking the killer. You use self care because it compensates for you lacking this skill.

Are... are you high? There are some situations where you literally can't not take a hit,

M1 Myers
Hag Trap
Hatchet Throw
Wraith Speed Bump
Slow Pallet Vaults
Slow Window Vaults
Falls From Heights
GOOD KILLERS

MAYBE just MAYBE a survivor and a killer can be comparable skill wise, so while the killer might get the first hit the survivor manages to duke in the second half of the chase.

I don't get why killers bring "juking" up so often like survivors have a button to turn invisible or something, you act as if juking can be done at any and all obstacles in the game, it's ridiculous that so many pallet/healing/chase/looping conversations come down to some killer saying "juke" better, how about you chase better and not lose the loud, bleedings scratch mark leaving survivor?

powerbats

@Raziel said:
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:

If you really are good at juking the killer, you WILL NEVER GET HIT. And that means that Self Care is a complete waste. If you expect getting hit, then you admit you are not good at juking the killer. You use self care because it compensates for you lacking this skill.

Speaking of Straw Mans, we'll use your logic here against you.

If you're a really good killer that survivor won't get away to use Self Care in the 1st place. That means that if they get away YOU SUCK AT KILLER !!!!!

There see how your logic just blew a very big hole in your whole argument.

SoylentPixie

@Raziel said:
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:

A REAL debate literally consists of opposing arguments. You don't want someone to change your mind you want people to agree with you, and like so many others on this forum, not agreeing with you equates to nobody being good enough.

The 'compelling' argument is YOUR view point. This isn't to say that the people who oppose you are right and you are wrong, but the fact that you call this a debate and then make a sweeping generalisation that every opposing argument is a 'straw man' argument, pretty much looses any credibility your viewpoint has.

If you just want to say that SC is bad and you don't like it, then just say it, don't ask people to 'change your mind' just so you can crap all over their posts because not enough people are agreeing with you.

Raziel

@powerbats said:

@Raziel said:
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:

If you really are good at juking the killer, you WILL NEVER GET HIT. And that means that Self Care is a complete waste. If you expect getting hit, then you admit you are not good at juking the killer. You use self care because it compensates for you lacking this skill.

Speaking of Straw Mans, we'll use your logic here against you.

If you're a really good killer that survivor won't get away to use Self Care in the 1st place. That means that if they get away YOU SUCK AT KILLER !!!!!

There see how your logic just blew a very big hole in your whole argument.

My main argument is that I am a good survivor and I do not need Self Care at all. It has nothing to do with playing Killer.

Raziel

@SoylentPixie said:

@Raziel said:
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:

A REAL debate literally consists of opposing arguments. You don't want someone to change your mind you want people to agree with you, and like so many others on this forum, not agreeing with you equates to nobody being good enough.

The 'compelling' argument is YOUR view point. This isn't to say that the people who oppose you are right and you are wrong, but the fact that you call this a debate and then make a sweeping generalisation that every opposing argument is a 'straw man' argument, pretty much looses any credibility your viewpoint has.

If you just want to say that SC is bad and you don't like it, then just say it, don't ask people to 'change your mind' just so you can crap all over their posts because not enough people are agreeing with you.

Go ahead and pick a post out of this entire thread that counters my argument. I will wait.

Remember, my main point is that a survivor who is a pro at stealth, ending chases, juking and avoiding the killer in general has absolutely no use for Self Care as they will never get hit. A survivor who fails in any of those can artificially compensate for his lack of skill by using the perk.

altruistic

Imagine believing that you can “never get hit” as a Survivor and not be trolling.  What a fantasy world to live in.  

Still waiting on you to show us your pro, stealth, never get hit survivor.  

Please show us all how great of a Survivor you are.  I think many of us would love to see it, or are you going to ignore my request again?  

Peanits

Primarily killer player. I don't see what the big deal is with self care. If I lost them and they spend the next 24 seconds (32 on the PTB) healing, oh well, I lost them, they deserve it. I failed, I lost them, I don't see why my hand should be held so they can't heal when it's my fault I lost them. They could just as easily go to another survivor and heal up twice as fast.

If they're healing mid-chase, not only does it greatly reduce the distance they gain and cause them to use pallets faster, but you can easily counter that with caulrophobia.

When I play survivor, I don't run it. It's a waste of a perk slot. Half the time someone comes sprinting over trying to heal you anyway. The only time it really matters is when you're the only survivor left.

Peasant

I just use Self-Care because I like to touch myself.

That came out wrong.

powerbats

@Raziel said:

My main argument is that I am a good survivor and I do not need Self Care at all. It has nothing to do with playing Killer.

My point is that your argument is biased and full of holes just because you don't run SC doesn't make you a good survivor. So the question becomes what perks do you use and if you say DS and or SB you're whole argument just went out the window.

SanKa_Games

@Peanits said:
Half the time someone comes sprinting over trying to heal you anyway. The only time it really matters is when you're the only survivor left.

Lucky you And I'm forced to chase them to another part of the map until they finally see me and try to heal when I don't bring SC with me. Though, if you have lots of medkits, it's easily replacable, but risky because of Franklin's Demise.

branchini1979

I use self care with were gonna live forever. I take hits for survivors to get my tokens for WGLF so need to try and evade killer then heal up. Don't make me a bad player. Alternative is bond to SC to look for friend to heal me