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From one of Planet Earth's two Twins mains...
...this new change is truly bizarre to me.
By increasing the cooldown on a successful Victor hit from 3 seconds to 5, what's effectively happening right now is the Twins are being made easier to play against.
That's fundamentally what this change is: if you're a smart Survivor who stays bunched up when you're injured and insta-kicks Victor in the 3 second window on live anyway, this change does not affect you. There are plenty of players who do this already, this isn't too much to ask Survivors to do to counter Victor because good ones are already doing it anyway.
If you're a bad Twins who can't get downs in chase and misses Pounce, or you camp with Victor, this change does not affect you.
This change only affects you if you're a good Twins player who uses Victor for chasing and snowballing in a fair way, or if you're a bad Survivor who doesn't bunch up well against Victor when you're injured. Why are nerfs being targeted at the expense of skilled Twins players who use the power fairly, to hand-hold Survivors who don't effectively use the counterplay that already exists?
If anything, the increased cooldown should have been applied to MISSING a Pounce, not landing one, to punish Twins who misplay. Or even better, they could have done the following to mitigate camping: have Victor automatically return to you if you hook a Survivor within 16m of him. That would be a nerf to camping Twins (since you can't place Victor under a hook and leave him there any more) and a buff to chasing Twins (since you could manually reset him after you get a down so he'd always be on hand to chase with). It would be the best change the Twins could possibly have... but no, we just get a random nerf to chase Twins as a punishment for playing too well.
If this nerf goes live, you'll just get more Twins players using Victor to camp hooks because if you can't snowball with him without a Survivor in the same ZIP code as the person you downed kicking you, why wouldn't you use him to camp instead?
I do not understand the purpose of this nerf. It's either there to:
-incentivise Twins players to camp with Victor because snowballing off injured survivors now just isn't happening even if the survivors make consistent positioning and gameplay errors while the Twins plays perfectly.
-hand-hold bad Survivors who go down to Victor while out of position or who don't bail their teammates out properly.
-punish Twins players who are good at their Killer and play them fairly.
Which one is it? What is the function of this nerf?
Comments
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-incentivize Twins players to camp with Victor because snowballing off injured survivors now just isn't happening even if the survivors make consistent positioning and gameplay errors while the Twins plays perfectly.
-hand-hold bad Survivors who go down to Victor while out of position or who don't bail their teammates out properly.
-punish Twins players who are good at their Killer and play them fairly.
Which one is it? What is the function of this nerf?
All of the above?
17 -
Yeah, that's how it feels. Just a middle finger to a Killer that's already not played much and isn't overbearingly strong. They're solid, but they're nowhere near deserving of a nerf like this.
4 -
I tought they were gonna Buff Victor from my experiences Victor vs Window is very annoying & sometimes impossible to down the survivor
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Do what I do and bait them into kicking you. Quickly switch back to Charlotte, then immediately back to Victor. 9 times out of 10 that survivor is now right in front of Victor about to try and crush him, and is now in a perfect pounce position.
1 -
I don't believe you.
One Twin main is already inconceivable.
It's akin to Trickster getting two kills.
11 -
All this change is gonna do is encourage people to not learn twins similar to what happened with the nurse rework
Im betting money next time we see stats it’ll be twins and plague at the bottom and it’ll probably stay that way
2 -
My main before Twins was Plague.
Hold me. Please.
3 -
This nerf doesn't make any sense in my head. If anything, Victor shouldn't be vulnerable at all after hitting a survivor.
6 -
Trust me I’ve mained Jeff since I got the game I know you’re pain :(
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Victor definitely needs to be breakable after getting a down to some extent, or else you'd just wait till everyone was injured and machine gun through them with nothing they could do about it. But 5s is far too much lenience, 3 is plenty.
1 -
I played them extensively and honestly I'm not against this change. Victor is a slugging machine and once his snowballing starts it's very hard for survivors to stop it, I've seen so many survivors try to kick Victor just for the animation to cancel because they had no time...
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huh, in my experience victor is the strongest at windows, he can easily pounce when the survivor is gonna vault?
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Which means they weren't close enough, didn't react in time, or were out of position. All of those things are the survivor's own mental errors. So why is a killer being nerfed for a player's ineptness?
3 -
It's easy saying they made a mistake when they were escaping trying to not being downed in the first place before having to make a U turn to kick Victor. 3 seconds weren't that much if you consider this.
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I mean, Survivors right now who are good tend to do it just fine. It's one of the best counters against a Twins on live and it works pretty damn well. Why did they need to make it easier when people are already doing it just fine on live?
1 -
What do you define as "melee range"? Because I've hit people off the top of the Swamp pier, out of the top floor window of the Myers house and off/onto the Coldwind Harvesters, it's very possible to use verticality or tricky angles to snipe people.
0 -
Twins being nerfed is peak BHVR move in this patch. I like most of the other changes in this patch but damn w h a t.
The other Twins changes are good though.
3 -
Victor did need a nerf, and honestly, this wasn't enough. Twins is an insanely good killer when used well, and one of the most frustrating to play against. They are way to good at slugging, and this is to slow good players down, so there is actual counter play to the killer, besides constantly traveling in pairs.
Every killer whining about the change is just being way overdramatic.
1 -
It's absolutely bizarre.
Here I was expected buffs for the Twins...like removing the ability to kick Victor after a successful hit...because you know you played skillfully..and punishing the killer for playing well makes no sense..
And...they did literally the complete opposite. Wild.
It feels just completely disconnected.
The Twins already have significant counter play and even 3 seconds was already extremely long. I could literally run around the entire loop and still have time to kick him after a lunge...and were increasing that to 5 lol
I don't know what they're thinking.
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Here's how you fix Twins.
Remove the ability to kick Victor after a successful lunge. Period.
Significantly increase the distance Charlotte has to be from the hook to switch unless survivors are within proximity. This gets rid of the hook camping with Charlotte.
Significantly reduce the switching time between Charlotte and Victor. This further encourages skilled play and using them to tag team.
While a survivor holds Victor, Charlotte gains Undetectable. This prevents taking him hostage.
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I'd rather face a red add on spirit than a slugging Twins right now. They are the opposite of fun.
Those of you pretending them needing a change wasn't obvious, shame on you!
Some players will suggest significantly increasing the distance from the hook Charlotte has to be to switch...pretending that slugging Twins players don't already put Viktor next to the hook first and then hook the survivor.
I'm in the rework Twins camp. Easily the most unfun killer to go against if played "well"(only slugging), but sort of weak if not played in that way.
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Thing is, good players were already countering Twins just fine. This doesn't add new counterplay to them, it just makes existing counterplay more forgiving of Survivors making mistakes. If the Twins player played perfectly to get the down, the Survivors should have to play perfectly or near-perfectly to negate that.
On live servers, I see people doing it successfully on a semi-regular basis and it can give me a genuinely hard time, so kicking Victor in three seconds is not an unrealistic demand since it only takes 0.35 seconds and again, Survivors who play well can usually already do it. All this change does is allow mediocre to bad Survivors who mess up consistently to "outplay" a Twins who plays perfectly.
3 -
Thing is, as the killer you don’t have to play perfectly, backrevving someone as victor is easy. Giving people who don’t know as much about the game a chance a counter play is not a bad thing. Besides, Victor respawns incredibly fast, so the reward for kicking him is already low.
0 -
I mean, landing a hit off the top of a building or round a corner by curving the Pounce or mindgaming someone out of a safe zone so you can get a clean shot or predicting a Dead Hard and hitting someone just as the animation ends is fundamentally hard to do, and that's something you have to be able to do when you're playing Twins against decent Survivors because they save time and let you make big plays.
That's like saying Billy's chainsaw shouldn't instadown because backrevving a chainsaw is easy and it would give worse Survivors more of a chance against it.
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I'd say it was more like old insta-saw Billy back revvving you, Victor right now has no counterplay if you're not in pairs, which is already a huge advantage for any killer if survivors are grouping up. So a minor nerf, that doesn't really change anything at high skills, and give more of the playerbase a chance at counterplay is only a good thing.
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Yay, I'm one of the two lol! I am not too upset since I use Victor to bait people and use Charlotte as the big bad destruction lady, but it is a bit odd that they made Victor weaker than he already is. His aim isn't amazing and I regularly jump in the exact direction of a survivor but my little homie decides to go into the atmosphere ✌️ I don't think I'm terrible with them either, and I always look forward to matches against Twins that don't involve excessive camping and slugging. However, I think it might be a good idea to play it safe and either down the survivor and take the hit, or latch on to the healthy one to get two teammates injured. I can't say how things will go until everything is released, but let's hope they did them right :)!
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It is a horrible change that i hope the devs revert back.
And ill explain why:
If there is another survivor near the downed victim Victor will be guaranteed to be destroyed now with a 5 seconds stun. And if the near survivor have WGLF he will heal up the survivor before charlotte can reach it most of the times.
This happened a lot of times to me by playing the twins before this change and by being only around 15-20 meters away from the victim.. so imagine now how of often will happen with 2 more seconds lost.
Twins aren't that deadly to receive this kind of nerf. Its a killer that require skill to be used and its very easy to dodge victor, and that was already a proper downside of The twins power.
I feel like this change is being bringed for rank 15 survivor or 20. It doesn't make sense in red ranks.
0 -
I am not sure I agree with him not having counter play while alone. If you're injured, he will most likely stay to show Charlotte where to go, but if he latches on then Charlotte sees him for three seconds and can go over to find the newly injured survivor. However, if there is more than one person near Victor when he latches onto a healthy survivor then Charlotte's killer instinct detects them and their movement from the survivor carrying him. It's better for the team to split up near Victor, but sometimes it is helpful for another person to play defense during/after a pounce. Then again, I'm new to killer, so if anything I stated is wrong feel free to correct me ;w;!!!
1 -
Imo kicking Vic should put him on a longer cool down. I have kicked him and then he just gets spat out and downs someone else 3 seconds later.
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The problem with twins is they are hard countered by staying in pairs. The nerf really makes no sense because it discourages slugging, but now it just encourages camping.
Really they should be changing twins to be more powerful when switching back and forth, because that is what makes them unique. It takes way too long to switch, and can't be used in chase. Imagine if you could switch much more quickly, you could chase, drop charlotte to body block, then switch to victor to land a hit. You can't really do that because you switch way too slow.
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You can definitely do it, you just have to be selective about where you do. I do it pretty frequently and it's one of the reasons I love them so much. But it mostly works when Victor's already attached to you so you can deploy him from Charlotte rather than have to traipse across the map.
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No because its stupid to nerf an already bad killer lol
1 -
They probably thinks there are too many Twins players, and want to cut that number in half.
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This update is weird because it's all changes people were excited for, but then we read them and everyone is just disappointed, I dont know why the changes were made this way
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