Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Matchmaking is actually fine.
Hot take as usual for my posts but hear me out and keep an open mind, i only want a game equally balanced for both sides and a fun experience over a sweat-fest.
But yes you read it correctly and no this isn't a troll. The Emblem system is flawed but healthy, there simply are too many survivors for so few killers.
Why is that? The reputation of playing killer has a stigma of sweat and less fun? The fact you can't play killer with friends and progress? The few motivations to do so? The "bad matchmaking" is a result of no motivation to play killer, I'll admit getting tonnes of pallets and bad maps vs sweaty teams quite regularly ruins my fun or makes me play less. But it's not the system. Its the divided playerbase.
Matchmaking in DbD is tricky but our current system is better than mmr. MMR much like the Servers and DC ban are just talking pints and buzzwords people parrot and will regret once we receive it.
This game is too unique and too flawed to just copy systems from competitive games, DbD is a casual party game for horror fans to play with friends and the salty players who want a comp game don't seem to realize sweaty dbd is dbd at its worst.
If killer was made more appealing to play such as more rewards\bp, maybe shards for killer ranks? A separate player level system or dailies for both sides? Or deleting Hawkins, balancing map rng (more less unsafe loops than god loops, but more pallets and windows that can be mind gamed and less loop cities or deadzones)
Another bit may be cross-play. I see many good Survivors, the Xbox SWF teams beat me the most honestly and their isn't much of a difference between surv play on any hardware. But Killer is undoubtedly much harder on consoles, especially without optimization and lower sensitivity. I think less console killers play, especially with crossplay on as it makes killer even less "fun"
I don't truly know how to make killer less stressful and more appealing to average, casual and "sweaty" players simultaneously as we need all 3.
But the current matchmaking system is flawed, unique and perfect for such a flawed and unique game.
MMR treating this like other asymmetric games May finally kill it. Id quit after 5 years, Seeing people turn their backs on streamers and long-term players is gross though, i think its stupid to abandon or punish veteran players to have a terrible experience to cater to the idea of "comp dbd" this game isn't comp ready as long as its rng and op thing remain, sorry for the ranty bit.
Im eager to hear opinions and if you plan on hostility or insults, please keep it to yourself.
I hope to hear opinions from open minded players new and long-term veterans.
Thanks for reading <3
Edit: just added the cross-play bit. :)
Comments
-
The most fun intense matches, win or lose, have always been when the matchup of skill has been on equal footing.
I have never enjoyed being slugged at 5 gens by a god nurse, or unable to hook a single survivor all game as killer. Same with doing 5 gens and like never seeing the killer at all, or wiping a floor with 4 survivors because they just all kill themselves and DC after first down.
Whatever gets me closer to the first thing, and less of the latter, is the best thing and what I support. I don't care how they do it but that is what I want.
14 -
It would be the current system if only there were more killers. The MMR won't work.
Especially if a god tier Killer on their main playes someone they never use for low mmr, they aren't "awful or new" at doc for example if they are an amazing wraith with 0 hours on dic.
Not yo mention per killer mmr means Survivors will only see nurse\spirit and never vs the new killers.
0 -
How this matchmaking is fine? I believe all these guys were red ranks before rank reset. I have 80 hours and my opponent in that match has 6k. Is this my problem that there are not enough red rank killers at the moment? I want to play with my ranks.
14 -
There aren't enough killers, im sorry that happened but please read post, MMR will not solve this. It will make less high skill killers play and increase not only sweat, but qeues
0 -
It would not. The emblem system which determines rank is fundamentally flawed; and caps out at an area where most people reside.
The founding system for your rank is broken at it's core and does not work, the developers have admitted that is is broken and does not work.
You could argue rank based matchmaking is fine- but saying the current system as a whole would work for that purpose is just flat out incorrect. Regardless of how many killers or survivors there are in queue.
5 -
It is better than basic MMR.
It blows my mind after the last few updates and years of the servers people trust bhvr to make mmr function, especially on this code.
MMR will make me quit. I'd get sick of being punished for playing from the start.
I want a casual fun game for all.
Not a sweat-fest. MMR is never going to work for dbd. Hiw will it define skill?
A spirit with stretched res and stridor is just "better" than the worlds best Pig?
Claudette hiding with a key in swamp is better than me or her teammates?
Oh i ran killer for 5 gens and fid no objective. Guess I'm bad?
MMR can't work if bhvr can define skill, wins or escapes and do not understand the game as proven by recent design choices. Demo nerfs, Freddy nerfed instead of being fixed. Nurse being bugged for 2 years, huntress hitboxes, twin nerf instead of rework, using perks as Band-Aids for design, breakable walks, no events, absurd tome challenges, the rift grind itself, Tricksters weakness and never taking ptb feedback.
Mark my words, mmr will kill dbd.
0 -
Killer based MMR would be the best thing that could ever happen to this game.
It's so easy to rank up with a couple of good killers, and not get any experience with the rest of them. Then you can never play those other killers because you'll only ever go against sweaty red rank survivors that you don't have anywhere near the skill to beat.
The 24hr MMR test was the best experience I've ever had in this game, and it would get a lot more people playing killer. More people playing killer = better matchmaking, you said it yourself.
MMR is simply using a different metric (other than rank) for matchmaking. A more accurate and specific metric that actually means something, because Rank doesn't mean all that much, and falls apart on the 13th of every month causing about 2-3 days where I have to avoid the game because it's toxic af.
We already have the toxic sweat fest, the problem is those toxic sweaty players are getting matched up with lower skilled players and ruining their experience. All you're doing by claiming MMR will kill this game, is admitting that the problem is being passed down the line to other players who don't deserve this #########.
MMR will make it more challenging for the top 5% of players, a little messier for the bottom 5%, but would be a HUGE improvement for the middle 90% of players.
5 -
Well now we are talking about the MMR system test; which yes, had huge gaping holes in it, but that is an entirely different topic.
1 -
It will reduce high skill killers, content creators and veteran players from boredom.
I had an awful experience with mmr that will only cater to noobs.
Im sorry but i disagree
0 -
Matchmaking right now is either too easy or too hard.
Even as a solo survivor I mostly pull green/brown rank killers, games are boring I literally have to run at the killer to get him to notice and chase me.
As killer the survivors are so optimized the games end quickly.
I tried playing during the MMR test, as survivor it put me with reds against a green rank killer, so I'm not too optimistic. Maybe like now if there are not enough killers it just matches you with anyone?
2 -
Also veteran killers having to wait literal hours for a match, only to get a full sweat literal comp team is just not good.
1 -
Ask yourself: If MMR will put you only against the highest skill Nurse mains and Stridor Spirits... who is currently going against those Nurse mains and Stridor Spirits if not the best survivors?
Now tell me 'matchmaking is actually fine'.
2 -
Only if you consider 'noobs' to be anyone below the top 5%. Which is the vast majority of players.
Then you'll see how entitled this mindset is.
"I'm the best survivor, but I don't want top play against the best killers, I want to face noob killers while noobs survivors take the Stridor Spirits for me."
1 -
I shouldn't be punished with only the sweatiest survivors and killers 24\7 just because I've played so long. Not to mention every content creater this community enjoys will be forced to quit.
I want the game to be fun for everyone. Not just cater to one group.
Why should i have insane q times and only face the same killers\survs? I get it, bad games aren't gun but there's no world where mmr will function. You trust bhvr's code and ai to determine skill?
0 -
I seem to be opposite. I get yellow\green\purple teams and rank 1 killers every game while only getting sweat teams as killer.
I believe mmr is on right now to be honest.
0 -
And how manu god tier nurses do you face?
A rank 4 freddy with noed isn't going anywhere with mmr.
Sorry but in such a unique game we will never get perfect balance. Especially with the huge amount of survivors to increasingly few killers.
Reward killers more and fix map design(delete hawkins) and boom the matchmaking is already a tad bit better. I'd play killer as much ss i used to :)
0 -
Yes, because it worked perfectly during the 24hr MMR test. I actually went up against people of my skill, and games were actually fun, all around. They were on the edge, challenging but not toxic, and I 4k'd about half of them at 1 gen left or EGC, instead of it being an extreme of either 4k at 4 gens or 0k in 3 minutes.
2 -
If MMR is on the game must think I'm a god tier killer (I'm not), from the survivors I pull. 😅
Facing keys/toolboxes with OoO against trickster is so fun.
2 -
No. I consider an huge amount of the playerbase to be below average an temporary. Most of your teammates play a month and quit.
Its unfair to ruin the game for those who are around from the start.
Im sorry but mmr will not solve this.
There's a reason its been disabled every time they've tried.
It will not work.
0 -
It's not.
Gotta love these "I can tell MMR is secretly on now" conspiracy theories. Because I can test it out very easily.
Jump on a killer I never play. Oh look, red ranks instead of brown ranks. Yep, no MMR.
It's only on when they say it's on.
4 -
Really? the 24hr test was the worst experience I've ever had in DBD. I couldn't play with any of my killers. I waited 45min because I wanted to play Doctor. I waited over an hour to play Blight and if this keeps happening, I will stop playing the game for some time. I am also pretty sure that SBMM won't be there for long. Killers will complain that they don't win or "barely" and survivors will complain that they only play against sweaty Nurse and Spirit players. So BHVR will turn it off again.
1 -
Funny you should say that matchmaking is either too easy or too hard. I either get 4 kills or no kills. This gives me the BHVR target average 2 kills per game so from their perspective matchmaking is pefect.
I played 40 games during the MMR (all as the same 2 killers) and lost 37 of them. MMR didn't adjust to my performance.
1 -
MMAny other didn't have that experience. Only the "temp" players who weren't even here for the last test seemed to enjoy it.
Im done with you. We are sadly never going to agree, you see from the selfish point of view and not the long term health.
Thanks for sharing these anicdotes
0 -
It's almost like they are using anicdotes and exaggerations while refusing to listen to others? I had such a dreadful time. Especially as survivor facing Killers of my level with teammates who had less than an hour.
0 -
You poor poor.. knifey guy. I still don't have him p3 because he's just..ugh.. its been hard.
0 -
With killer at night I'd probably get one chill game after 6/7 sweaty ones.
I just hope one day I'll have an evenly matched game where 2 die and 2 escape, we say ggs at the end and we all go on our merry ways. 🤩I can only dream.
1 -
Maybe you don't actually like this game, and only like it when you face opponents of a such lower skill level that you can stomp all over, and either slug for 4k or teabag at the exit gates, and you're afraid that making the game actually challenging for you is going to show this up for what it really is.
1 -
"Never thought I'd fight beside a blight"
"How about a friend?"
-Insert Yui and Oni hybrid awful scream to signify my mains
0 -
I'm not evening thinking of p1ing him never mind p3 lol.
1 -
MM is not fine, i'm rank 12 on PC ( i'm a console player, just got the PC version), i've faced red ranks swf's just because i suppose i was doing too well against people in my rank range, wich yes is fine in the way that i'm not an actual new player, i do have hundreds of hours on PS4/5 but still making me face red ranks with the best perks vs my rank 12 Wraith with only basic perks is just riddiculous, and obviously i lost that match. BUT what happened next? I faced rank 17 survivors right after. Neither of these scenarios are correct. I shouldn't face red rank swf's and i shouldn't face anything below rank 13 while i'm rank 12. Now you ask what time and region was i playing? Begining of evening in EU region. That's a very good time to play.
2 -
Im doing p3 so i can get a weapon or trenchcoat with shards and not need to buy a head with $$$.
Sadly they said(allegedly) no ranged killer who can ranged damage will be 115%
0 -
His m2 needs to buffed 😒
I only play him due to the fact he giggles like a schoolgirl whenever he hits someone 😏
1 -
I always get the red or purple rank killers as a survivor 🥺 poor thing here is on 17 now its had a rank reset.
I agree the MMR is eventually going to destroy the game. The match making I don't believe to be fair at all, the time waiting for a match both sides is ridiculous. Like if I'm playing survivor I'm waiting a bit for a killer, then the killer leaves the lobby for seeing the keys, tool boxes or what ever we have on our hands to play in our match. The DCs are getting awful when a survivor is on their backsides once before hooked they DC.
Sadly, these things are what the game is about right now and it's just not fair for a killer to have players DC because the survivor can't take a hook and wait for someone to save them. Half the time I've fixed 3 gens before I've come across the killer or I've had games where its literally no gens have been fixed and the team have just been slugged in couple of minutes.
Something definitely needs to be done to make it equally fair both sides.
1 -
I would blame your issues on wraiths weakness, lack of access to good perks and bad map design.
Rank doesn't always signify skill, which is why we should keep and tweak the system. And mist importantly make killer more accessible and appealing. If we had enough killers to match with the seemingly 85-15 split. We'd all be better off but most just play surv with friends and that's the harshness of asymmetrical games as a whole
Im sorry to hear about the rough games and mmr unfortunately seemed to no good for most players. It punishes fun most of all
1 -
You hear his cocky laugh when someone dc's? Its rare because he's a free win atm.
1 -
Make killer more appealing and accessable. Its unappealing to the average survivor main or those who just casually play with friends.
Give shards for killer ranks? Idk. I remember getting shards per match back in the day
0 -
No? I enjoy a challenge. I dont enjoy the bad elements of balance out of my control punishing me for loyalty.
Waiting 2 hours for a team of sweats on comms with meta perks and such is one thing.
But all of that on Hawkins as Oni is another.
I play fair. I never use add ons or items, I've never used a bnp in 5 years or NoED unless for memes. I never camp or tunnel unless i have to.
And i play very fairly and go easy on nes players if i somehow get them.
I enjoy the game far more than you as I've put 5 years and regrettably nearly $1000 into it.
I want to play the game.
Not get hour long waits for unpleasant matches and lose to players exploiting flawed design or elements out of my control.
When the game is truly balanced and comp ready.. try mmr, but as long as a map can get 25 pallets when I'm killer and only 5 on the same map as survivor.. this game is not ready for it. But if it was balanced and less frustrating we wouldn't need mmr as we'd have more high rank killers.
0 -
So you're arguing that the game has too much RNG, and that they SHOULDN'T take steps to address a facet of that RNG (terrible matchmaking)?
1 -
Rng is part of the reason match making is bad currently.
But yes, keep ignoring the overwhelmingly negative reviews for mmr. Whether on this post, twitter, reddit, other posts or by every streamer and content creator.
Best advice is to stop treating dbd as a comp game. It simply isn't.
Most of your loses aren't to blame on anyone but yourself.
MMR only caters to noobs, it will not function on this code and with the current rate the devs work\update and lack of communication with the community and listening to feedback.
They just listen to mass data.
MMR will kill dbd as all the high level players will quit. Im not suffering through hour long waits for suffering. And once more a lack of high skill players will make things worse for bad\new players.
Im sorry you have these opinions. We won't reach common ground it seems. Good night.
1 -
The reviews for the most recent MMR test weren't overwhelmingly negative though.
Maybe you should recognise your confirmation bias and realise that only a loud minority and a few top streamers had issues.
It's not catering to 'noobs', it's catering to the majority of players who aren't the top 5%.
2 -
I was thinking the game needs to be fair both sides mate not necessarily just aimed at ranks. It's the whole game itself. The timing of matches, the DC players...
1 -
I clearly understand Wraith's limitations and my account limitations on PC but all that only proves 2 things, first the MM is clearly not working ok and second that the base game can't compete with DLC content wich is a massive Balance issue. Obviously DLC content needs to be good but the current disparity is too big and having 3 perks per character is only making the issue worse.
There isn't a single gen regression base perk, there's only Sloppy Butcher. Nurse and Huntress are now considered base game, so there's Thana but it's not enough. The best build i could possibly come up with would be Sloppy, Whispers, Thana and Tinkerer or NOED because the Survivor tutorial doesnt teach players about totems, so on low ranks NOED or any other Hex is almost undestructable cause people don't know about totems existing. I did two matches as Huntress on ranks 16-20 and only used Huntress Lullaby and won easy cause people didn't know about it and kept missing skillchecks. THE GAME DOESN'T TEACH NEW PLAYERS ABOUT TOTEMS IN TUTORIAL. Oh and it doesn't mention the OBsession mechanic either. It's massively outdated.
The game needs a complete revision not just new content but they refuse to do it and just badn aid fix everything by adding perks instead of making changes to the core game or base kit of killers. They lack leadership and direction and apparently any sense of reason or they trully want the game jsut like it is and we're the ones that need to comply or play something else...
1 -
I disagree on multiple points.
First, I don't think SWF is such a big problem, often it is more confusing than helping. Just the fact that sometimes people expect information which might not come because someone forgot to give info grants free hits for example "I thought he was on you!" "yeah, a minute ago". And you will never be able to give as precise location info as Bond can give you. Try to explain someone where you saw the totem on Shelter woods... "near a tree and a rock" - wow. People blame SWF way too often, playing good or "gen rush" mostly comes inline with "you are SWF". heard that more than once. So the conclusion that SWF leads to less killer motivation is the players's personal problem, not the game. This is just an attitude thing.
Second, I think matchmaking is totally bad. There is one issue you cannot solve. And that is player distribution. If there are not enough or too many killers, you will have queue times on one or the other side. But Ranking? Come on, the emblems are totally not fine. If the killer is that bad that he can only manage to get 2-3 hooks, noone will get Altruism progress as there are no objectives to get them. And that should mean, the gap between killer and survivor was too big. But if such a mashup allows survivors to depip, caused by the bad performance of the killer, you can assume that the emblems do NOT what they are supposed to do. Also a rough guess is that half of the survivor player base is red rank. At least when I see what type of small streamers and their playstyle actually plays at red rank. I wouldn't even consider myself as a true redrank if I compare myself to some streamers and what is possible, also if I redesigned emblems, I would not be a red rank.
Also I don't know how crossplay is related to match making. If console survivors beat you as there is no difference to PC survivors, wouldnt console killers be living in hell since release? What does this crossplay add to the discussion?
1 -
"I would blame your issues on wraiths weakness, lack of access to good perks and bad map design."
XD like "I blame everything, dont mind, but dont mention my matchmaking". Sorry, had to say that.
I dont think this is the solution. People are "survivor mains" by mentality. It is simply a different game if you switch roles. If you dont like killer, you dont like killer. This could just slightly shift the distribution for people that play both roles anyway.
2 -
Well put mate 👏
0 -
im at rank 4 and i just got matched with:
a rank 13
a rank 9
a rank 8
and a rank 14
seriously, i have to dodge lobbies with default skins cuz im worried about them being morons.
(i know skins dont necessarily mean skill but most of the time theyre new players who just got the game)
2 -
If this game becomes balanced equally for both sides it'll be horrible in my opinion. Killers need to be favored just a slight bit because they are supposed to be the main show of the game.
1 -
It isn't punnishing streamers or veterans if things are balanced.
If there is a problem with the game then it will rear its ugly head when mmr is put in place and hopefully dealt with.
As it is now the game is punishing killers that want to have a good time with anything other than nurse and spirit by shoving sweat squads against them.
2 -
Imagine playing starcraft and being constantly put against random opponents. Could be a guy playing his second game, could be some korean pro, could be someone of your skill level.
Totally fine matchmaking, nothing to see.
"But veteran players will have to go against other veteran players and the game will be super hard." Yeah, as it should be at that level. Unless you believe that good players should be matched against bad players, because it is more fun this way for the veteran. Who cares about the worse players getting stomped, if I can get my easy victory.
Btw. I had a great time when the last mmr was on. Games felt much more balanced than usual.
2 -
They can't balance the game because the stats are being muddied by players that don't belong in reds.
Mmr will reveal the problems just like removing the safety pip would fix some issues ( they won't remove safety pips.)
1
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
