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Can gen rushing really be considered a thing???
I mean to me I don't view gen rushing as thing. I view it as the only mission of survivors. I don't get why survivors would want to purposely prolong the match. Their objective is to escape as quick as possible, so doing gens as quick as possible. Like why would they take their sweet time, just to give the killer more time to hunt them down. It does not make sense to me why some people think gen rushing can truly be a thing. Yeah I had matches were survivors did the gens in less than 5 minutes, but it's their only objective.
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The problem isn't completing gens, its how LONG it takes the survivors to finish gens, especially since it's their only objective as you say.
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Have fun with your 13k match then. 13k will not be enough to pip you in purple/red ranks so - have fun. You are also denying yourself a lot of the chances of extra BP from doing rift and daily challenges by just doing gens.
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I mean it's really on the killer side to put pressure. Some killers only focus on one person and throw the game. And basically allow us to do gens. What can we do just stop doing gens and wait for the chase to end? I'm red rank actually, have a couple of friends who don't know to loop, but they are red ranks, and they mostly do gens.
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Don't get me wrong, I encounter plenty of killers who don't get any downs/hooks and then complain about gen rushing because the match only lasts 5 min.
On the other hand, I occasionally go against teams with multiple BNPs on commodious toolboxes and Prove Thyselves. That's a gen rushing team. I once lost my first gen 19 seconds into the match. I timed it.
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No, it's pretty much just completing the objective. It's like if people got mad at killers for hook-rushing.
Now, if survivors are just dying on their first hook because the survivors are just glued to their generators, then that might be considered "ten-rushing," but it's not much of a detriment to you. Finding survivors on your gen patrol and just hacking them down to die on first hook is a blessing.
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Yeah I had cases were survivors completed gens quickly. But can you blame them? They have to escape as quickly as possible, while killers have to get survivors down as quickly as possible. when survivors finish gens quick it's because I'm not forcing them off gens, or I focus on one person to much. My rules is if I can't get a survivor down within one minute, I will simply leave him and go find another survivor. So at the end of the day gen rushing cannot be a thing when that is their only mission.
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I may be in the minority but my favorite matches are the ones that last a little while. I'm not gunning for the win, I don't care if I win. I just want to have fun playing the game. I have the most fun when there's a lot of cat and mouse, hiding and chasing, opportunities for both objectives AND altruism, etc.
My least favorite games are the ones that end in three minutes because either I was immediately tunneled, hooked and face-camped or because my team immediately went crazy on the gens. It's not the funnest thing to have 3 or 4 minutes of debatable "gameplay" for every five minute queue.
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And? Who gives a flying fork what people call you? Seriously I have never seen a player base so triggered by what strangers think of them than in DBD. Don't like what people say to you - stop reading end game chat - simple solution.
If it is in the game...killer or survivor side - then it is fair game to be used and if people don't like that - that's their problem.
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I mean, it's their objective. It's on the killer to juggle them from that objective.
It's one of the few times I found myself agreeing with Tru3 this past month - he mentioned that the Trickster's problem is it's hard for him to split the pressure. Something higher mobility killers are really good at and others who's very map presence does passively.
But when it's their only objective and the killer isn't really pushing people hard, it's not the survivor's fault.
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A killer who can't apply pressure is different than. A SWF with brand new parts and purple tool boxes. Latter is more gen rushing but most time its thr former
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I don't know, I see that argument a lot and I assume that it's largely from the killer side. Repairing a single gen is what, roughly a minute and a half? That might not sound like a long time but try walking over and staring at a blank wall for a count of 80 or 90 or whatever it is. Now do it four more times. That's an eternity.
That's not to suggest that there aren't ways to hasten the time, or work together, and it obviously ignores the fact that survivors are usually working on at least a couple at a time, or several on one. But every time a survivor is incapacitated, especially when the other survivors then often drop what they're doing to go for the save, that really stretches things out.
I guess what I'm saying is that I find it balanced myself. If the gens are knocked out quickly then yes, they can feel too fast. But if the killer is on his or her toes and successfully downs even one person, maybe two, that's almost a guarantee that the generators are going to abandoned for several minutes. The killer can obviously damage them too, or prolong their repair time. Again, my own subjective opinion is that generator repair and the variables that can affect it are about where they should be.
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Can tunneling and camping be considered a thing?
I mean, killing is the killers only objective after all.
Same logic.
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"Genrush" is the lack of pressure. And no, this is just a made-up thing by Killers who are not as good at the game as they think they are.
You cant expect Survivors to be slower on Gens, there is not really anything they can do when not in Chase.
The only thing I would consider "Genrushing" is if Survivors dont care about anything else except for Gens. If they basically let people die on their first hook to do Gens.
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I mean to me I don't view tunneling as thing. I view it as the only mission of killers. I don't get why killers would want to purposely prolong the match. Their objective is to kill as quick as possible, so doing tunneling as quick as possible. Like why would they take their sweet time, just to give the survivors more time to escape. It does not make sense to me why some people think tunneling can truly be a thing. Yeah I had matches were killers did the kills in less than 5 minutes, but it's their only objective.
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You aren't wrong. The variables do make a difference. I've played as killer and tried to pressure the gens HARD only to find that, apparently, I happened to be choosing the wrong ones because a good two generators would be knocked out in like a minute or two. That's frustrating. And for whatever it's worth I hate the loop game myself, so I feel you on that as well.
I only say that I feel that it's fairly balanced (by fairly I mean "reasonably") because there ARE killer variables that can slow or restrict the gens, and again, in my experience if a survivor is downed most players start diverting their attention to the save.
It's really kind of a back and forth to me. As a killer I admit they feel too fast, but I'm not especially good as the killer yet. As survivor it seems like it takes ages, even with a toolbox that quickens things by like five or seven seconds, and the killer is almost always inevitably disrupting me and undoing my work halfway through.
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I'd say gen rushing is absolutely a thing, there just needs to be a clear definition of what would be considered gen rushing. Like, I once had a game full of toolbox gens-before-frens survivors, and by the time I got my first hook within like, a minute of the match starting, 3 separate gens all popped simultaneously. Nothing I could do about that. Physically could not cover enough distance to pressure those gens AND get my first down in that amount of time. That degree of speed is what I would consider gen rushing. Situations where the killer is physically incapable of stopping multiple gens from popping right at the start of a match. Basically where you end up losing before you get a chance to do anything about it.
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When people are talking about genrushing they are talking at how fast gens can go when fixed optimally and not pointing fingers at survivors doing said gens.
No sensible person is blaming survivors for doing their objective, they are blaming the game at how fast said objective goes if people ignore everything but the objective
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Hey killers can camp. I'm going to sit in the gen in the meantime. I guess yeah killers can choose to tunnel and camp. But Killers have control of the game overall. They can choose to control gens, to get people of gens. It's not up to the survivor. If there is no killer near gens people will gens.
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is the requirement of multiple kicks a new thing or has it always been that way? I could have sworn that when I first began playing a month ago it was a single kick to take them back down to zero. I only ever see other killers kicking them once as well. Yet I've run across gens that I had to kick like five times to fully knock out. That's a bit ridiculous.
Anyway I can't personally relate to how you describe things because I'm just not experienced enough as a killer yet, but I believe you. I'd probably feel a little more frustrated with gen repair time if I played killer more often. I do know that I spent several hours straight a few nights ago running a killer main and every match was literally like 3 to 6 minutes long. I guess that's gen-rushing, and yes, it WAS frustrating. I don't like treating this game as a race but sadly I think I'm in the minority on that.
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It's the same thing as tunneling.
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Yes the game will always be survivor sided since it is four brains vs one brain. Even though at times does not feel like it. But that was not the point, killers control the matches overall. They control the gens, who can work on them, they control the doors the hooks. Survivors have to work to get out, killers control. Unless they start losing control, which is when they lose a game.
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As a neutral term that simply refers to someone doing gens fast, or to simply describe people going for an all out "gens before friends" style? Sure.
As a negative term that's more like an accusation/insult of how someone played? That's just scrubby and blaming players when (if anything/anywhere) the blame should be on the game. Thinking gens shouldn't be as fast is one thing, blaming people for doing them fast when it's possible is another.
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Survivors control the pace of the game. Not killers.
A killer can only chase 1 survivor at the same time. The others will sit on gens.
In most of my solo survivor matches, the killer gets his first hook after 3 gens have been completed.
The matches end with killers getting 3 or 4 hooks before all gens are completed.
Only exceptions are when my teammates suicide, disconnect, or sit crouching in a corner of the map, while the killer chases someone else.
Current balance works great for new players. Where survivors still make mistakes. But doesn't work for experienced players.
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Gen rushing is a thing Survivors should do if they want to maximize their chances of winning. The fact that any sort of strategy is potentially overpowered should not necessarily dissuade a player from employing it if their goal is to win (especially if they intend to win efficiently). It is on the devs to make sure that no strategy is overly dominant/unfun, not the players.
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It's the same as tunneling, in my book. You're knocking out your objective as quickly as possible, be it kills or gens. Claiming gen rushing doesn't exist is like saying tunneling doesn't either.
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I only see gen rushing as a thing if survivors brought 4 brand new parts, map offering, stacked prove thyself and all that jazz.
otherwise nah
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Can tunneling or camping really be considered a thing?
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I think the proper definition of genrushing is survivors abandoning their teammates to do generators instead.
If there are two survivors on a hook at once and two that are not (and none of the non-hooked in chase), instead of saving their teammates they sit on generators instead.
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Yes, it can. It can be argued that actual gen rush doesn't happen as often as most people say it does, but it definitely is a thing.
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It's a matter of perspective.
As others already pointed out: if you don't think that gen-rushing is a thing, then clearly tunneling and camping aren't really things either. When a team can't work around those strategies, that's always their own failure.
If you genuinely never complain or care about that stuff either--given all relentlessly pursue your own objectives in the most logical & optimal fashion for the circumstances, even where it denies other players a chance at fun--well, okay, that's fair.
As long as you're consistent with your logic, it's not something anyone can definitively argue as right or wrong beyond their own POV too.
My own POV?
When your match strategy is totally contingent on pressuring gens as quickly as possible with some expectation of cheesing the chase/altruism points needed in the end-game where you're free to swarm the killer in relatively safely... you're absolutely gen-rushing. It doesn't take BNPs. It's about mindless, robotic efficiency even when you're thriving. And it really does suck. It's no different from killers denying you the chance at any real game by tunneling you right off the hook. One side guarantees the other to de-pip from that loss too, while they still usually (but barely) secure their own pip from the win.
Personally, I want the games to be games. I find that occasional sub-optimal (aka fun/fair/empathetic) decisions tend to create far more enjoyable games even if that sometimes costs me games I'd otherwise win. Hell, that's kind of the point: letting the scales tilt back a bit to provide more interesting matches.
As a survivor, if we're making great time and in a good position, sure, I'll take some time to open a chest or do dull totems. As a killer, if I've got some serious pressure built up, yeah I'm going to ignore the logical targets to go after someone I haven't hooked yet. Sometimes I'll even avoid death hook and just slug so they've got a chance for recovery and more gameplay while the slug will still buy me pressure since someone's got to lift them up. (Especially if its a game where I came out hard and heavy--double hooking them early--where I could've played more relaxed).
I don't demand that everyone else plays this way, but I get zero value out of relentlessly winning as quickly as possible just for the sake of it. Might as well be doing any arbitrary thing for the sake of doing whatever arbitrary thing quickly. Dishwashing speed champion here I come. That's the sort of value winning alone holds to me.
So I tend to play this game with the goal of double pipping when I can. It makes sure I've got to balance how well I'm doing with giving the other side a real chance at playing this game. It's a challenge of its own. As frustrating as the emblem system is in some respects (and the your vulnerability of depending on other players participation), it's also something I greatly respect for how it strives to push players towards making the game itself more enjoyable.
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There's a difference between survivors completing their objectives and survivors leaving others on hook to rush gens before saving.
You won't see many true gen rush squads that will leave survivors on hook long for them to hit stage 2 in order to finish all the gens, because honestly gens are quick enough that you don't need to.
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Yeah it is, pushing the objective so fast that a match ends with everyone's emblems suffering unless sticking around to toy with the killer. If gen rushing wasn't a thing, we could all finish gens efficiently and walk away with decent scores and a pip.
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Can you say tunneling exists then. You are just doing your objective efficiently.
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The issue is not on the survivor (player) but on the game structure. Yes you are allowed to do that, you have perks to do that and is logical to do that. But with that said, its just not fun when you are the killer and you hear 1-2 or even 3 gens finishing when you got one hook.
The problem here is that in your comment you are taking the comment of killers on gen rush as a problem towards you (the player) and not in the game mechanic. You cant do anything to prevent gen rush as a player in the game, but understanding the issue from the killer perspective and demanding that the Behaviour to give a fix into this issue should be a thing all players do.
When I see this kind of topic I allways see comments that say like "it's a killer issue" like if the killer have the tools to prevent 4 players to do gens, that is as ilogical as asking for a survivor to dont do gens, when you are the killer you start the game try to find 1 surv, chase him/her until you get the down, its not benefical for the killer to drop on that survivor to try to find another one because 1- that surv will start another gen and 2- you will take time to find another surv. So you keep chasing on that surv until you got him, an experienced survivor will hold the chase for long enough your team finish 1-2 gens (even against a rank 1 killer).
And there is the problem you see killers saying against "gen rush" its not a surv neither a killer issue its a game design flaw.
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Yes, because you can literally complete gens in less then 5 minutes.
For reference it takes a few minutes for someone to even die on hook.
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So what would you do to improve this so called game flaw?
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Just ideas but,
Maybe nerf when one person is doing a gen alone in the early game (removing this penalty with the game progression that way you dont put too much pressure on a surv only because their companions are being killed) , with that you:
1 - Force the survivors to gather into one gen instead of split into 3 gens. This way when the killer finish the first chase he will only get 1 gen done and not 2-3.
2 - You give a real reason of having those offerings that starts the game with the surv alone/together.
3 - The killer can have a real choice of drop the first chase to try and stop the 3surv gen.
Or, you may give a different task to finish a generator to promote team effort, like you may add a task of retrieving some pieces spread on the map and bring them to the generator, that way a person will not only be sit on a gen and pressing space to get a skill check done. That way you will:
1 - Force the survivors to walk around the map, and the time to finish a generator will depend on the luck + team effort instead of time alone.
2 - Will give the survivors more to do and they will get more points with it, because the game will force you to move and not stand & hide.
Those are the only two that came to my mind, but the devs could try and get something done.
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Devs need to nerf killers from hookrushing, downing a survivor should not be a guaranteed hook!
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The part that bothers me is the "even if it denies the other players a chance at fun". You explain yourself in a great manner that tries to be fair to those of us who play hard and don't complain when people play hard back - but then you say something like that which can be interpeted as a passive-aggressive attempt at demonizing those who beat the snot out of their opponents by playing hard.
Look, I understand your POV about wanting to get the most value out of any game and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be nice to people even if I disagree (I feel that going easy on people just defeats the purpose of a matchmaker by boosting players who shouldn't be moved up a rank). I feel that in any game that has a failure, state, you need to be prepared to get your ass handed to you sometimes. And if people can't handle how a game will occasionally kick their butt, they may be just (and I don't mean no disrespect when I say this) they are in the wrong game for them.
I purposely avoid certain games that getting my ass handed to I find no fun. I love Tanks and ships, but I don't play World of Warships or Tanks simply because I learned that getting my ass handed to me in those games is just no fun for me. I've come to terms with that and have moved on. I harbor no ill-will to those people who still play them and do well in them - they found their place and that's fine. Coming to that conclusion has led me to believe that DBD may just not be for certain people - and there's nothing wrong with that.
But I take exception to these people who feel like they HAVE to play this game and people MUST play the way they deem is right.
I don't find playing with kids gloves on a group that's clearly outmatched fun. I find it boring and I want to be so done with it so I can at least find a team that has just enough teeth to make me work for it. Why does MY fun have to come second to that of total strangers who are likely just going to take advantage of generosity, get ranked against a better killer that will likely destroy them anyway? I mean, I don't see this often recipicated from the survivor side? How many times have you been on a survivor team that totally decimates a killer and denies him ANYTHING then let's him have fun by offering a couple hooks at the end?
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