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Fixing old/bad/or outdated killer perks to make them useful
Suggested changes:
Monstrous Shrine:
Buff the perk to - Survivors have 3 less escape attempts, and sacrifice progresses 25% faster when hooked in the basement.
Explanation - 25% of 2 mins is 30 seconds, or subtracting 15 seconds from each hook phase so 45 seconds per hook phase total, adding in the fact that unless the survivors bring in Slippery Meat, they'll have to be rescued by their teammates... This makes being hooked in the basement a much more dire situation than current Monstrous Shrine.
Sometime after Hag came out the devs doubled the hook time from 1 min to 2 meaning survivors used to only have 30 seconds per hook phase, And current monstrous Shrine was designed with these the old timings in mind but was still underwhelming even back then. This suggestion is a sort of middle ground between how hooking used to be in the early days of the game, and how it is now, while only applying to the basement hooks, and finally giving Monstrous Shrine the buff it needs to be a threat that creates urgency for the survivor team.
Spies From the Shadows:
Overhaul the perk to - The Crows no longer respond to your presence, you see the auras of all disrurbed crows within 36 meters of you, and disturbed crows are 100% louder to you within that range.
Explanation - This proposal gets rid of the confusing/annoying explosion sound notifications and replaces it by making the crows noisier so you can differentiate between them and a gen popping, you get no false signals since crows no longer respond to you, and they basically become little signal flares to tell you where survivors are. If this change were to happen, Spies would become an overall better tracking tool, and really fit the description of the perk which says: "The Crows found in the world can communicate directly with you." Besides, survivors still have 2 perks that defeat this: Calm Spirit & Urban Evasion, as well as the crouching mechanic, so it's not like this would be an un-counterable or broken change for the perk. If they also put some more crows in dead zones, that would be nice for helping this perk gain a better level of consistency and usefulness (Seriously, Rotten fields features no Scarecrows, but the crows completely avoid the corn field?).
Surge:
Remove the cooldown and the Basic Attack requirement.
Explanation - Honestly this has been hotly debated in the forums since Surge came out because the fact remains that in order to activate it at all, you have to successfully down a survivor while within range of a gen. Chasing and downing a survivor with Basic attacks takes enough time as it is, especially if they were healthy when the chase started, and the minor 8% damage Surge does if it activates is hardly consequential since it would take 12 survivor downs in order to achieve a stacked 96% damage to 1 or more gens. PGTW does 300% damage to gens in the same amount of hooks, and Ruin Does more damage per second without needing to down or hook a survivor. On average it takes a decent m1 killer 20 seconds to down a survivor, and that's not counting the time to find the survivor to chase and down in the first place, but say you snowballed survivors 1 after the other within 20 seconds per chase, that's a maximum of 4 downs in 80 seconds, and a total of 32% damage between multiple gens since survivors won't stay around a downed survivor, much less a gen if getting chased, so overall... you spread the damage out over a possible 4 gens at most over 80 seconds, and that's the best case scenario if this change was implemented. While this won't improve the overall damage Surge can do, removing the basic attack requirement will at least allow killers with damaging powers to get some use out of it making it more universal to the killer roster, and removing the cooldown will allow it to become a slightly more consistent annoyance to survivors. It won't make it any more powerful than any other existing gen defense perks, but at least it would be more useful.
Oppression:
Remove or significantly lower the cooldown.
Explanation - This perk doesn't even add extra damage to the gens it affects (unless survivors fail the "Difficult" skill check), only applies the base regression rate, and can randomly target gens that have 0 progress on them, but for some awful reason the devs decided that it was so powerful that it deserved DOUBLE the cooldown time (80 seconds) of Surge? At least Surge won't activate on gens that have 0 progress... Why does Oppression deserve such an excessive cooldown time? If it's because of the skill check, that's a laughable annoyance more than anything that could be considered a threat to any decent-good survivors, and only becomes a problem against noobs, who honestly rank up and gain skill fast enough that it's pretty much a moot point to keep it so laughably underpowered.
Fire Up:
Buff the perk- Increase it from 4% to 5%.
Explanation - This is a ridiculously underpowered perk because in order to gain any benefit from it, the killer has to sacrifice the objectives they are supposed to protect, in other words "lose the game". It's designed to give killers a slight edge in chases in order to try and protect the last gens from completing. The overall problem however is that 4% amounts to 12% when 3 gens are completed, and 20% when all 5 are done, meaning that they gain Brutal Strengths chase advantage on pallet breaking only after the survivors have completed all of the gens when there's not many unused pallets left in the map, and Bamboozles vault speed advantage when there is only 1 gen remaining. This doesn't help the killers in their desperate attempts to stop the final gens from completion at all, and by the time it's reached its maximum potential, the survivors are already rushing out the gate.
However, if you bump it up just 1%... now we have a perk that gains Bamboozles advantage at 2 gens remaining, and Brutal Strengths at 1 gen remaining, with an added bonus to both if 0 gens remain. This would actually help the killers defend the final gens, and give them enough of a chase advantage if all gens are completed to try and stop the survivors from escaping. Suddenly this goes from an "underpowered" perk to a "Decent" one, and all it takes is a simple 1% boost in strength.
Insidious:
Overhaul the perk to - Reduces your Terror Radius and Red Stains Brightness by 5% for every 4/3/2 seconds you refrain from chasing or injuring survivors, upon reaching 100% reduction, you gain the Undetectable Status. Initiating a chase or injuring a survivor regains your TR and Red stain at a rate of 20% per second, once this has returned Insidious has a 40 second cooldown.
Explanation - This perk has been a bane on the game since it came out since it seems to have been specifically designed for the sole purpose of camping hooks. With this change however, a killer loses half their TR for spending 10 seconds away from a chase or injuring a survivor, and becomes Undetectable at 20 seconds. This is mostly meant for anti-stealth play, or for gaining a slight advantage in the early game wherein the killer is initially searching the map for survivors. Ultimately, it changes the perk from one encouraging camping, to one that rewards the killer with an advantage if the survivors are being too sneaky/evasive, and allows them to get the drop on survivors more often. The cooldown is necessary for this one because otherwise it would be heavily abuseable.
As for the survivors going up against this updated version, Premonition or Spine Chill still proc on stealth killers, so relying solely on the TR reduction is still no guarantee against those kinds of perks, and gives the survivors an advantage. Up until then, unless the killer has spent 20 seconds avoiding survivors, Aura reading perks like OoO, Alert, and Kindred still have an advantage for tracking the killer.
That's my list so far. Anyone else want to contribute your own ideas, or criticize the concepts I've listed? Feel free to speak up!
Comments
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Sorry but the devs only like "buffing" one killer perk every 5 months, maybe in 20 years they will be fixed.
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Fixing and Behaviour is something contraditory.
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I feel you both, but neither of these comments are constructive to the post as much as just bitching about the Behavior Dev team. Do you guy's agree, disagree or just don't care about the idea's I've posted for fixing these perks? Do you have any suggestions of your own? or do you just feel content with bashing the dev team because of their lack of response to forum posters like myself, who feel killers could use at least a few buffs?
In all Honestly, these forums are starting to feel more and more like the Evolve forums, wherein no matter how many Monster players cried about needing buffs, the devs completely ignored them, and buffed the Hunters instead, until no one wanted to play the Monster role anymore. I really hope that this game's devs don't make that same mistake. Otherwise, this game won't even last to the end of next year.
So, While I understand/sympathize with you both, I don't want this discussion to devolve into a whole mess of BHVR bashing comments, and simply ask you to stick to the topic please, as if it might actually, at least be glanced at, by a Dev.
Post edited by TWiXT on5 -
I like all of these except for insidious, since there are better stealth options that you have to work that fill that buff's role.
great ideas overall, though!
I also really like the "not alerting crows thing" for it's stealth value, although considering how many crows there are on some maps, it may be irritating to see crow auras.
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I can agree with those changes
Then how about:
Dying Light- Increase the debuff from 3% to 6 % on the first three hooks... then lower that to the 3% after... Also have to healing and saving increase from 0% to 33% for each hook on the non obsessions... and the obsession should be affected by the debuff as well
Doing that will encourage Killers to get hooks on the Non Obsession at first (maybe)
Brutal Strength- Increase the speed buff to 50% and add Hindered to Survivors within 3-4m of a pallet being broken for IDK 10 or so seconds
Doing this will make chases more interesting
Pop Goes The Weasel- add stacks to this perk... and you lose the stacks by kicking a gen
1) nothing extra happens
2) Gen progress is slower by 5% for 30 or so seconds
3) The ability to kick a completed Gen and have it regress at 200% of normal
4) Kick a completed Gen and have 25% of progress removed but normal regression
Doing this will give a choice to Killers (but might be OP)
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You only see the crows aura's when they get disturbed. Also the insidious idea was to reward you for stealthy survivor play, basically making it easier to find them the longer you don't sight, injure or chase one, which in the early game is great, but in the mid-end game... not so useful. Admittedly it's rather niche and not as good as the other stealth perks, but in comparison to how Insidious works right now, I feel it's a drastic improvement.
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Good Ideas! I wonder what everyone else will say though.
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Every single Michael Myers perk needs a rework.
But Spies from the Shadows?? I Love that perk, it helps me so much to find survivors around the map
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Thanks
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fair points.
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I like and agree with all of your changes, except Monstrous Shrine. Your changes to that perk only makes camping less punishing for the Killer.
If the Killer knows the survivors have less time to make a rescue and will be more urgent about it, why would they ever leave (or venture far)? Meanwhile, if they do camp, the survivors have less time to do gens instead.
I think that Monstrous Shrine should stop self-unhooks, self-sacrifices, and locker plays:
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Maybe it should only show the auras of disturbed crows instead.
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what if monsterous shrine made it so that any survivor who entered a locker in the basement screamed, and was then unable to leave for 20/25/30s?
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Monstrous shrine - It needs to be redone for sure but it needs to have a downside that wouldnt be abused as your suggestion would undoubtedly bring back a strong basement hag / trapper. Perks rarely change any of the core rule structure of the game and i think that is basically one of the unsaid rules they go by when they develop new perks. I dont know if they have ever said that themselves but I know thats how a lot of games tend to justify this stuff.
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- Distressing. After hooking a survivor, all other survivors will hear your terror radius and occasionally see a clone of you near their position for 30 seconds (similar to Doctor illusions).
- Insidious. After remaining motionless for 5 seconds, the aura of survivors working on generators become visible and you gain the undetectable status for 20 seconds. Incurs a 60 second cooldown.
- Whispers. In addition to the existing effect, you hear a special audio cue whenever survivors acquire an item, begin working on a generator or begin opening a gate.
- Monstrous Shrine. If a survivor is hooked in the basement, so long as you remain in the basement all survivors' auras become visible to you. This begins a visible timer, however, and once it expires, the survivor hooked is unhooked and automatically gains Borrowed Time and Adrenaline status. This timer resets once the survivor dies or is unhooked.
- Deerstalker. Made baseline on all killers.
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sorry, I have another version of this suggestion in a comment I left that reflects this sentiment a few months after i made this post. I have updated the description to match that ideal. Crows auras are only revealed upon being disturbed, this was always my intention, but i failed to put it in this post back in april, so... my bad.
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The site [BAD WORD] me for no reason and are my draft, so here's a lightning round on perk suggestions:
Dying Light: If it deactivates when the obsession is killed, then a 2-3% increase in the slowdown. If not, then just one percent. At the very least, the obsession should be affected by the slowdown.
Furtive Chase: Decreases terror radius by two meters for each stack, deactivates for 30-50 seconds when you down survivors (to enable counterplay). Probably should still deactivate when the obsession is killed.
Hangman's Trick: Make it a Scourge Hook perk. Seriously. Mayhaps make it injure survivors who sabotage it?
I am also of the opinion that Monstrous Shrine should be a Scourge Hook perk if it affects hooks, for the sake of consistency.
Territorial Imperative: Either it should do more, or have less restrictions--killer instinct would not be remiss. That or my old stand-by: make it a Scourge Hook perk!
Beast of Prey: A one percent increase in movement speed while in chase? Map-wide TR until undetectable status at Bloodlust one? Both?
Huntress's Lullaby: Additional 3-6% regression for each stack. Is this punishing? Yes. It's a hex perk that requires survivors to fail, so I don't see a problem with it being punishing.
Unnerving Presence: good skill checks are always the t3 size, make the incremental change apply to a reduction in great skill check sizes. Tremendously increase the chances of triggering skill checks.
Probably more, but I can't remember them.
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agree with all
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