I Am Once Again Asking
That Killers can see individual hook states of Survivors.
I had five games tonight, three of which were in a row with the final two also back-to-back, as Killer where I accidentally saced someone, because those games were all really hectic and I lost track of who had been hooked twice already and who hadn't. One game was with three Claudette, two of which were identical and the third only had a different jacket so of course I got them mixed up.
One game I never hooked someone and spent the whole E.G.C. chasing the wrong person for my last BBQ stack because I was _so intent_ on making sure I didn't third hook someone I didn't want to (this was the game right after the third game I'd done that so I wanted to be sure I didn't) that I could only remember who'd been second hooked and not who had been first hooked.
I'm the type of Killer Player where I want to single hook everyone first then go for a second hook on them and then let them all get out. I'm not chasing a 4k, I'm not trying to Rank Up. I want everyone to have fun, me and the four of them. Whenever I third hook someone for what-ever reason and they hadn't been toxic I feel really bad. Sorry! I forgot! [bad word] it always hits the fun I'm having when I do it.
I'm really tired of the 'reason' it wasn't implemented is because "It'll encourage tunneling". A tunnler is going to tunnel. Yes, maybe it'll make a bit of difference at the end game in some cases where people want their petty single or double kill and they won't chase someone they know isn't dead-on-hook but I really do think for the most part if Killers didn't have to mentally keep track of it it'd be better for the game.
The "Hook Counter" is alright and all but far too many games I have miscounted how many 'empty' spaces are left and saced someone I didn't want to or missed when someone goes second stage from one hook or-. There is so much you have to keep track of as Killer, if all you care about is a 4k then you won't ever worry about if you've hooked someone yet or not unless you're already having a rough time and you need someone dead now, and if that's the case then you've not been tunneling anyways so yeah.
I just want the nice Survivors to get out alive and also get my two hooks and not have to worry about if I've already double hooked someone or not or if they went second stage the first time.
Comments
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While it would help people like you avoid accidentally tunnelling someone out of the game, I'm afraid it would be too much of a supporting tool for people that want to maliciously tunnel someone out, so I don't think it's going to happen.
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As much as such a change would help out the rare type of killer you are, i too see nothing but tunnels coming out of it.
However, I see a compromise that might do the trick: force an Obsession in every trial. With the decline in use of reworked DS so many matches now have no Obsession, and those that do are caused by a killer perk, meaning likely still no DS in play.
I feel this give and take is fair enough. Thoughts?
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"If killers can see how many times the survivors have been hooked then they'll maliciously tunnel people out of the game!"
Yeah because that doesn't happen already, I didn't even know what tunneling was until people started having this discussion. /s
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It wouldn't really matter, it already happens regardless.
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-For your financial support.
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Body is asking for your financial support.
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People that want to maliciously tunnel will do it regardless, so in my eyes thats a non-argument. The real problem is that it would expand the amount of killers that 'prioritize' (not tunnel) survivors which would just make survivors complain more, and BHVR could say nothing because not only is camping/tunneling condoned the much less egregious 'prioritizing' of targets would easily fall within the bounds of good player conduct.
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As @Jay_Whyask and @Yords put it tunneling happens, even without this feature it will continue to happen. Will being able to track who is already dead-on-hook make it easier to tunnel people out? Yes, it will, but if a Killer player starts a game with either intention or a willingness to tunnel someone they'll do it.
I have heard and seen cases where a Killer player wanted to semi-tunnel someone but couldn't because they forgot was dead-on-hook and who wasn't, it happens to the best of players (Otz: "This person dead now." *Hooks person, was their second hook not third* "Maybe not.") so of course it's going to happen to the average player. But I think for every Killer player who uses it as a tool to tunnel you'll get more that use it instead of spread out their hook states, ensure everyone is hooked once before hooking someone twice, unless given an easy down because even I don't ignore those, and make the game a bit more fun and fair.
I just outright do not accept the "It'll help tunnelers!" argument because of the simple fact a hard-core tunneler doesn't need it. They will still just go right for the person unhooked and ignore everyone else anyways.
@JPLongstreet On the matter of there always being an Obsession: I've wanted that to be a thing long even before the D.S. change was announced. The amount of information both sides get from there being a lack of an Obsession is pretty big in just how many Perks, both Killer and Survivor, it rules out. By always having an Obsession you have to guess what's going on and why it's there if you're not the one running the reason. And even if you are the reason you have to wonder if there is something on the other side that would also cause it. Plus it'd be a few extra Bloodpoints for every game. Killer Mains don't really need it but it'd help a little for Survivors.
On the matter of D.S. being run less: If you stopped running it because of the change you were not running it to prevent being tunneled in the first place. If you are being tunneled you'd not be able to do any of the actions that disable it now anyways so nothing changed there And the distinct lack of Obsession in games shows that a lot of people were using it as sixty seconds of semi-invulnerability than to not be tunneled.
In my opinion D.S. was never really all that good at that job in the first place, really only being useful at end game when an escape option was open and preventing you from being picked at the Exit Gate. So many people just eat the stun and continue the chase and while five seconds is a while the Survivor isn't free to act those full five seconds so it's closer to three, maybe four, seconds of run time. And you're leaving scratch marks and blood the whole time so it's not like you can go and hide without a build totally dedicated to making the best use out of those seconds from the stun. And then if you've used your D.S. at four gens left you've got nothing to protect you the rest of the game.
And even now I'm still getting a lot of people using D.S. offensively against me as Killer. Running in while injured when I'm chasing someone else and going down or being healthy and interrupting a chase and jumping in a locker. It's still sixty seconds of semi-invulnerability, you just can't be sitting on a gen with it any more.
But that's a tangent to the topic. I do honestly think it'd be better for the game if Killer Players had the individual hook states like Survivor Players do. We'll never be ride of tunnelers and campers unless it is made literally impossible so being held hostage to the fear of "It'll make Bad Thing X easier!" isn't worth missing out on "It'll make Good Things A, B, and C easier".
Have an internet cookie. And by that I mean an up vote.
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I still don't agree with this reasoning. Anyone who wants to actively tunnel people out of the game definitely do not need a hook state tracker to help them do that. They just need to not forget who they're tunneling. It is far easier to keep track of who you are tunneling out of the game than to keep track of the individual number of hooks each Survivor has.
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I think BHVR could stand to do a test with Killer able to see individual hook states. They did it with Bloodlust and survived.
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That last sentence so very very much.
I've already said I want everyone to get out alive unless they are toxic so when I get that person who rapid clicks flashlight or t-bags from the hill or behind a window or rapid vaults something on the other side of the map from me I lock in "tunnel this person from the game" and have no trouble remembering to doing so. I'm sure someone going into the game with the mind-set of "Tunnel the first person I hook" won't have any trouble remembering who they hook first.
But when I'm in the middle of a game trying to keep track of where everyone is and what they are doing and where I need to prioritize so three gens don't all finish at once on me it's really easy to forget who it was I double hooked three minuets ago when my hook counter is at five and BBQ is at 4 tokens (because you can be at five on the counter and one person hasn't been hooked yet and that's the part I'm really scared of because now it's two people I don't want to hook instead of just one and one I really want to hook for BBQ so I can really set in that one I want but might forget which two I don't).
I've not got the best memory in the world, either short term or long term, and I can only repeat a mantra for so long to try and keep things in mind before too many factors come into play and I have to drop a mental thread and focus on all that's going on now and not stuff that happened before. I keep running into situations where I'm thinking "Was it one or three that was dead-on-hook?" or I'm thinking "Only three is dead-on-hook" and I hook four and, whoops, they were the ones that had already gone second stage not three. Feels bad man.
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