http://dbd.game/killswitch
Twins, while stronger than people give them credit for, do not need this nerf.
Are they weak? No, not really.
Do they need changes? Absolutely.
Are these the changes they need? Hell no.
The Twins, in my mind, have three problems (numbers are using the changes on PTB).
1) Time Inefficiency and survivor abusability
I list these as one problem because they go hand in hand.
- If you miss a single pounce, Victor gets kicked and all the time you invested in that chase is now wasted.
- If you latch onto a survivor and they don't let go, you have no chase power for 30 seconds, making you more or less a non-threat.
- If a survivor jumps into a locker against Victor, and Charlotte is more than 37 meters away, all the time you invested in chasing that survivor is wasted.
- If you down a survivor as Victor, and he has a friend within 20 meters (since the successful attack CD is now two seconds LONGER than the normal one), you will get kicked, making a snowball nearly impossible. Additionally, if Charlotte is at any significant distance and/or that survivor has a healing speed perk, that survivor gets picked up and all the time you invested in that chase is wasted.
- If you down a survivor as Victor, and he has no friends nearby, but Charlotte is at any significant distance and he has something Flip Flop Power Struggle, you cannot hook that survivor and all the time you invested is wasted.
- If you down a survivor as Victor, and are able to pick him up without perks interfering, it took you ######### forever. A five second successful attack CD, plus a 2 second wakeup time, plus who ######### knows how long to get to the body, plus 4-19 seconds spent picking up, transporting, and hooking that body.
- Oh right, and because of how long it takes for you to get to the body, sure hope nobody got in position for a flashlight/pallet/sabotage save in that window!
Imagine if every time you downed a survivor as Nurse, you got:
- Automatically teleported 40 meters away.
- Got fatigued.
- Somehow got caught in a bear trap.
- Couldn't use your blink to get to the body again.
This is why Twins feel like they have to play scummy. If they try to play fair, it will take so long that they're all but guaranteed to lose.
2) Too Good at Camping and Slugging
The PTB changes address Slugging to an extent, but not camping, and even the slugging problem isn't being approached in a good way.
The ban on swapping bodies near a hook is completely ineffective, since Victor just stays where he was when the hook and can be teleported to when you see something.
Before the PTB changes, the potential for Victor to run around and 4-man slug was just kinda disgusting.
3) The way their kit is designed, they automatically camp/slug
Similar to the above.
You can't help but camp as a Twins a lot of the time because Victor is just there and you can't move him out of the way without wasting time you don't have.
You can't help but slug as Twins because it just takes too goddamn long for Charlotte to get to them.
Proposed changes
- One second after downing a survivor as VIctor, or finding one in a locker, he will automatically self destruct, teleporting the survivor back to Charlotte with him.
- If Victor is idle within 16 meters of a hooked survivor, he will now immediately die.
- Victor can now be manually recalled at any time, whether he is latched or idle.
Comments
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I’m really not sure if your changes would make the Twins better or worse. But it would make them less unique and more similar to other Killers because it would minimize the whole “two Killers” mechanic they have going that allows you to be in two places at once. If Victor self destructs all the time and Charlotte becomes the main Killer with Victor being a more traditional Killer power.
Also, the “teleportation” animation would be nearly impossible for the Devs to create considering it took them over a month to create a “holding the locker closed” animation. And the Twins aren’t one of the “magical” Killers with lots of supernatural powers so teleportation wouldn’t really make sense anyway.
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I agree with your changes except one I would make it so while playing as Victor you hold the action button to teleport Charlotte to Victors exact location to get rid of slugging so they don’t waste time
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You can be very, very lazy with this kind of animation.
Just recycle blood spurts from other animations to cover up survivors being instantly teleported.
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I think you mostly got their issues right but I'm not really a fan of your changes.
-Remove the extra stun time they added
-Increase the distance you have to be from the hook to swap between them unless a survivor is within range (to prevent camping).
-Charlotte gains Undetectable while Victor is on a survivor (make it more punishing to take her power hostage)
Their slugging isn't an issue, it has lots of counter play. Her issues are her camping and Victor being taken hostage.
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Idk, the changes seem fair to me (as someone who also recognizes that twins are under rated). Most of the time after downing someone, the nearby survivors run to kick but just narrowly miss it. Its nearly impossible unless the 2 survivors were holding hands. The increased kick period is a direct attempt to make 4 slugging harder, which is most peoples complaint about them.
The change that causes charlotte to lose colision after being idle for 30 seconds is also good because of killers that trap survs in the basement, but im disappointed because I used it to body block totems, pallets, doorways and windows, not trap people. But oh well.
The changes are harsh, but all they need to do... IS LET CHARLOTTE THROW VICTOR AT SURVIVORS! PLEASE! LOL
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I disagree, I believe slugging is a fundemental issue with the Twins design
Slugging being the only thing a killer is good at promotes really unhealthy gameplay. Other killers who are good at slugging, also have other things going for them so they don't have to rely purely on it - Mobility mainly: Nurse, Oni and hell even Blight. Twins seems to have none of that, only slugging and camping/proxy camping.
And I'm not saying it's the fault of the people who do it, as It seems like that's the only competent way to use her power and win
I think Twins needs a full on rework, personally.
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"Slugging being the only thing a killer is good at promotes really unhealthy gameplay."
No, slugging is not unhealthy game play. The hate for slugging is completely irrational. You can do more things on the ground, you have a second chance at life, and there are multiple perk/item counters to slugging as well. There is no rational reason to hate slugging much less is it unhealthy.
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Let me explain myself a bit better - I didn't mean to say I hate slugging or that all slugging is bad. If that's the impression you got, that's my bad for not explaining myself properly
My point was - if slugging is the only viable Strategy for a killer's power then I believe that's unhealthy for the game. That applies to Twins because it is quite literally counter-productive to down someone with victor, swap and then hook every time. It's the same with Oni, but Oni has mobility and map control. Twins doesn't
Slugging is completely fine when it's not the only thing killers are setting out to do. I apologise if you thought I was trying to call all slugging bad, that wasn't my intention
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So basically freddy's teleport with extra steps
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Oni can pick up a survivor he downs with his power just fine. He keeps the rest of his power bar so he can pick up some more blood and have his power back quickly. He's certainly not forced to slug like he was on the ptb when he would lose half his power bar picking up a survivor in his power.
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Good point, I forgot to factor that in - that's my bad.
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This is completely random, and sorry for that, but I think recently played a match with you (I was solo queue). If I'm right and your name here is the same, just saying thanks for one of those few decent matches I've had in days lol.
If not, I'm a crazy old man and disregard
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I do use the same name.
Was I killer or survivor?
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I'm surprised she isn't able to.
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Killer playing Twins :)
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Okay yeah that was definitely me then lol
I'm glad you had fun, I usually get insults thrown at me in every after game chat.
Do you remember which map?
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Victor bring bodies to you & always being able to recall are ideas i've been thinking about and 100% agree with, Victor camping killing him doesnt really work, since you dont camp as Victor, you camp as Charlotte & send Victor off.
Camping is just kinda part of what Twins are, since nerfing it means that you HAVE to nerf Twins as a whole, say, increasing the distance from hook before you can release/swap to Victor, but that then means that you cant use your power for longer after hooking someone. You could make Charlotte take even longer to wake up, but I dont think I need to explain why that's not the right call.
Its just kind of a hard thing to remove, best to just make NOT doing it more rewarding instead.
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I had the idea that if he hits an injured survivor, he attaches to them and is able to steer them around, like the jockey from left 4 dead.
They can struggle against him as though they were wiggling but if he gets them to charlotte he can hand them off, victor dies and the wiggle bar resets. If a survivor wiggles off of victor; he dies and the survivor enters the dying state. Wiggle related perks would affect this.
Completely takes slugging off the table and gives the killer more agency on getting to downed survivors. Let me know what you think!
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Throw in the ability to throw victor at survivors and you got a good killer though, eh? Lol
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Autowreckers! I'm on console so I don't have post-game chat, but it was nice just to have a normal, decent match lol. So thanks!
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No prob, I appreciate that :)
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I feel like instead of Charlotte getting Undetectable, the survivor with Victor on them should get Oblivious.
Otherwise, I like the changes.
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They already do. It's worthless.
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You would initially think that, sure, but that's a pretty awful playstyle.
Victor can't down people that Charlotte doesn't injure, so having Charlotte sitting at the basement instead of being active on the map tenderizing people for Victor means you'll never get anybody down in the first place.
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