Spirit's so called counterplay
I know another spirit post, but I've read a lot of post about her and people are convinced there is counter play to her. I'm here to tell you the very truth. The only counterplay a spirit has is using a god pallet or god window that's it. There's no other counterplay to her and I will explain why many of the supposed counters to her are wrong.
The first one is running back through your scratch marks. This is by far the most stupid one to do because you literally are running back towards the spirit and will run head on into her and she will down you. Don't ever do this because a spirit with a brain will instantly get you.
The second counter play I hear is to hold w and break line of sight. This still doesn't work because the spirit will phase to you and catch you before you can make it anywhere. Also breaking line of sight doesn't help because she uses sound to track you not scratch marks, scratch marks are the very least the spirit should worry about. Also you are invisible to the spirit already if she phases so how would breaking line of sight help in the first place.
The third counter is slow vaulting windows or pallets. This also doesn't work because you guessed it, you make noise still while slow vaulting. The survivor makes a moaning while slow vaulting. I know it isn't loud, but is still easily heard if your paying attention. Also slow vaulting into a fast vault doesn't work because when you fast vault dust kicks up into the air on the side you fast vaulted.
The last counterplay that I I've seen is the reverse pallet drop. You drop the pallet infront of you instead of running through and dropping it. Again this doesn't work because of sound. The spirit can hear your breathing and when injured moaning. Alls she has to do is to 50% around to pallet here what side you on and come out and hit you. Also you through the pallet in the direction that the spirit is coming from so if she desides to go head on towards the pallet your screwed.
That is all I have on the Spirit counterplay. I am open to hearing your guys thoughts on the matter (please be civil) and maybe you can try to change my mind on it, but for know the only counter to spirit IMO is using a god pallet or window.
Comments
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Some of this stuff can work but the problem is that it’s all up to the Spirit player. The survivor can try to throw her off but at the end of the day, as long as the Spirit is competent, there’s no avoiding her which is a huge problem in a PvP game. It also doesn’t help the fact that she takes like 10 matches to master her power.
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Yes exactly this. Generally you can trick a spirit, but you cannot trick a spirit with headphones and stridor. It's bs.
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The best and only reliable counterplay to the Spirit is playing against a bad spirit.
If you aren't, God have mercy on your soul.
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Yea Spirit is tough- especially a rank 1. I agree- running back over your tracks doesn’t work. I even tried Tru3’s suggestion of doubling back crouched to throw off sound but that’s too inconsistent for me. When it doesn’t work, feel like I gave her a free hit and didn’t waste enough of her time. Iron Will for the spirits who do not run Stridor or Whisperers helps a lot. Combine that with Spine Chill & your chances improve ever so slightly lol. But the best counter I’ve had luck with so far (especially within the past 24 hours), is breaking line of sight and crouching still with Iron Will. Your timing has to be pretty damn good though. You need tall building structures/walls and you have to walk opposite of where you just ran and then crouch still (so if you just finished running to the right behind something, walk to the left then quickly crouch still behind another structure). Even then it’s no guarantee cause she knows you didn’t get far. Best I try to do is waste as much of her time as possible.
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Not everyone runs iron and also at least for me crouching doesnt affect the noise that survivors make. To me spine chill is just a I'm about to die and now I'm dead when it lights up. I also dont like how Tru3 says he doesnt learn things that work against bad killers but proceeds to use things like crouching back at the spirit and then running which just makes you lose distance.
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I think the only time I've been able to throw off a stridor spirit consistently was when I had 2 TL walls and the killer shack right next to each other. I kept hoping through windows as much as I could and as randomly as I could and it would cause her to run out of her power before she could get a hit.
Otherwise I do agree, her counter play is simply hoping you can throw her off as much as you can which isn't likely if the spirit is even remotely competent. Stridor spirits are simply bad killer players who are using the easiest and strongest thing that they can to secure a win. Spirits who don't rely on stridor or 3-4 gen regression perks I feel are actually good killers and are generally more fun to go against
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Not everyone runs iron will though and also crouching at least for me doesnt make the survivors quieter and I find them just as easily. Also spine chill is just a indicator that you're about to die to her Imo.
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You have 100% true , and don't talk us about Iron Will, Stridor still exist and the spirit can hear 25% of u'r noises :)
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Well said. +1
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To sum up your comment: There is not way to reliable outplay Spirit in a chase. But all of this assumes that the Spirit player does this flawless.
Which lets me question: If you play flawless should you not be able to get the hit?
Do not get me wrong. Spirit could use a little tune (make noice while phasing, like with that one bug). But played flawless you should get the hit. The question is how long should it take.
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Even then you aren't countering her, she is just making mistakes.
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This is exactly why I think Spirit shouldnt be able to track scratchmarks while phasing. We already have a killer that has proven that scratchmarks and blood arent really neccesary if you have ears and speed. That killer is Legion.
Legion is considered weak, not because his lack of tracking, but his lack of speed. Spirit can easily do without scratchmarks, it only enables bad killers to play in red ranks. How often do you see killer mains(or, yknow, spirit mains) post "spirit is the only viable killer in red ranks", even though many Myer mains(which is objectively the worst killer) have proven that statement to be incorrect.
Spirit has permanent training wheels, they should make her training wheels worth an addon slot at the very least.
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All of this is way too complicated. The best counter to Spirit it to keep moving, but doing so in a walk or a crouch. In short, it is more effective to evade, i.e. immerse, and rotate through the Generators and attrition her down. The Spirit likes using her power. Her power comes with the disadvantage that she can't see you. She relies on sound and/or scratch marks. She follows predictable, obvious routes of movement since she has to fly around invisible. You can, and should, take advantage of these tendencies. What follows works for me. It has worked for my friends I instructed as well. It is only as good as your adherence to it.
- Walk or crouch (if you have the appropriate Perk to crouch about quickly) to a Generator. Leave no red marks and avoid being spotted.
- Start working on the Generator. The second you hear the audible que that the Spirit is going into Haunt mode, walk away to terrain.
- Once out of LOS from the Generator you were working you can run if you like or walk a bit more (better) toward the next Generator.
- If indications on your HUD make it clear she went somewhere else you can return to the Generator you were on.
- Repeat the process.
Perks like Spine Chill, Quick & Quiet, Urban Evasion, Iron Will, Calm Spirit, Head On, and numerous others which help you evade rather than Loop are all quite useful here. If you (and your team) regularly rotate through the Generators moving quietly and methodically the Spirit will have trouble getting a lock on anyone. The match will go slower because banging out Generators quickly is hard to do if you are constantly rotating and/or being extra cautious to pause and confirm she wasn't haunting to your location. They will, however, get done. The key to beating the Spirit is not giving her the free hits (or grabs) coming out of Haunting. Without those free hits, she is just another standard Killer with high mobility and Generator Pressure.
Let me put this another way, if you remove the free hits from her, she is a bit more like Wraith, Blight, Nurse, and Freddy in that she can rocket around the map to check Generators. When you face those Killers you constantly have to get on and off Generators too. So in that respect, playing against the Spirit isn't really that different or any slower than fighting them. The problem many people have is they like to GAMBLE on the Spirit not coming their direction. This is a bad bet when an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Many people like to run EVERYWHERE which is kind of suicidal against the Spirit as many of them moving about will spot random red marks and just start following them. Why wouldn't they?
My chief irritation with other Solo Players is their tendency to be in a hurry. It is a bad idea against any Killer but particularly risky against a Spirit. Every match I enter begins the same way; I start moving toward a Generator and some other Survivor runs by me and gets on that Generator literally a second or two before I do. The tiny amount of time they saved and applied to the Generator also left a big red arrow pointing at us, made noise, and was largely irrelevant. I'm not suggesting people crouch everywhere (that is too slow short of having the right Perk) but I think running is best done when appropriate and necessary. Why leave a trail when you don't have to or when it saves you very little time? More to the point I define evading as being sneaky but productive. It is different from simply hiding which is doing nothing.
The Spirit is problematic for a lot (perhaps even most) Players because they have honed their Looping skills, but not their evasion techniques. Many Players confuse evasion and hiding, when they are very different indeed. Evasion works with cute tricks like moving toward a Generator safely, waiting until the Killer checks it (which is going to be soon against a good Killer) and starting work as they move off. This ensures maximum time before they return to check it as they already confirmed in their mind that nobody is here (or was here). Another trick happens during rescue. Often you will be moving to get someone off a hook that was nailed near a Generator that is pretty far along. Do NOT make that rescue immediately unless you must. The second you unhook the Killer is on their way back because there is a Generator and a targets there. Finish the Generator and then unhook. Do you see my point?
The best Survivors (and I am not calling myself one of the best) are accomplished Loopers and Evaders. They know how to switch between the two modes when appropriate, mixing and matching as an individual match calls for it. No plan survives contact with the enemy and you have to be able to improvise. For example, you CANNOT fight a Spooky Myers (Scratched Mirror) the same as you would a Maniac Myers. If you do, you are going to get waffle-stomped. You have to fight sneaky one exactly the OPPOSITE of how you would the more common variety. Think of Spirit the same way. You cannot fight her the way you would a normal Killer. Save your bad ass looping for when the evasion falls apart. In her case, the best defense is to make her haunt all over the map getting frustrated while you and your team slowly, but surely inch the Generators toward being done. Towards the end of the match you will notice the Spirit spending less time haunting and more time running around like a standard M1 Killer because they will have figured out they need LOS to spot you.
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Spirit defenders be like "just run No Mither and Iron Will to cancel out Stridor lmaoooo"
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I think there is a difference between "defending" Spirit and saying she does have counter play. :) Do I think she could use a tweak? Yes. I think she should be the same speed as a Tier-1 Myers when not Haunting, i.e. 105%. I think that is the only change required to make her in line with the other effective Killers but knock her down from unchallenged top spot. I don't think this would destroy her efficacy because:
- I play Spooky Myers all the time and manage to get hits.
- She gets the lion's share of her hits coming out of Haunt anyway.
My view of her is that she is one of the most potent Killers in the game, but I disagree that she has no counter play. She does; it just isn't the style of play most Survivors want to use. :)
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This game isn't a 1v1 and never will be. If you want to win the game as a single survivor you can load up a KYF and 1v1 someone on Cowshed or something. Survivors don't need a 100% reliable way to counter spirit (or any killer) when there's 4 survivors per team that ALL contribue to the win as a team.
The amount of people that complain about a killer simply because the available counters aren't as reliable, simple(braindead) and effective as dropping a god pallet against a M1 killer or looping a god loop is astonishing.
If you think about the game as a 4v1 you should realise that each individual survivor doesn't need strong tools to buy huge amounts of time on their own as long as the survivor team is competent as a whole. Unfortunately, many solo Q teams are not that great even in red ranks.
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She has counterplay, but she doesn't have consistent counterplay.
The only people to fall for that counterplay are bad Spirits. And yeah I agree on that, Spirit being 105% could work. Maybe.
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If y'all worked half as hard calling out the power level of Nurse as y'all did Spirit, this game would be in a better place right about now. Quit complaining that Spirit's counterplay isn't simple enough for you.
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There is counterplay to spirit in the form of spine chill(and IW obviously).Stridor spirit though?
there i said it again,couldn't resist...
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Obviously nothing is going to change your mind but I disagree completely.
She has lots of counter play. Most survivors are just bad and don't understand how to play against a Spirit and instead just make up excuses. Spirit actually asks more skill of the survivors than most killers. She's one of the funnest killers to face as survivor for me. Much higher level mind games going on here than against most other killers.
If she has such little counter play why do I not have the same problems facing Spirit as you? Are all the rank 1 Spirits I've faced in over 7,000 hours just coincidentally bad? Unlikely.
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You say she has counterplay, but then doesnt explain any examples and goes on to say your just a bad survivor, and I am a amazing one because I dont struggle against her.
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It looks that way to you because you're new here. The reason I didn't post full explanations is because I've already wrote paragraphs on it in here ad nauseum. There has been a post like this on the forums almost every week for the past few years.
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You should do Scott Jund's Spirit counterplay challenge. If you can counter Spirit, maybe you can try countering his Spirit and just maybe I'll be convinced.
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What's the challenge rules?
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Not sure, to be honest. @ScottJund
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I agree with you (hence my earlier posts); she has counter play.
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I'm not new I've been on this forum for over a year, just dont talk to you that much. I would understand writing the same thing over and over, but saying people are bad because they cant find the 1 in a million counterplay that she has. I've gone over all scenarios and cant figure it out.
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Please refer to my posts further up in the thread. The counter play is pretty simple and direct. It just isn't the preference of most Survivors. People get into habits and don't like to play against type.
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How about crouching inconsistently to throw her off? Iron will? These both counter her.
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He's on Twitch right now and said the challenge is still up. You can hop on and ask him about it.
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