Funeral for Twins.
Bringing the funeral from the 4.7.0 notes from the feedback to here, it's the funeral processions! The twins change feels terrible, the animations don't match, and this doesn't change the base slugging and camping strat from them!
Toot toot, funeral ahoy!
Comments
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They're extremely strong killer, even when the 5s stun does feel awful, it hardly makes them bad.
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Someone, make a coffin dance vid with the Twins on the coffin and the people carrying the coffin labelled "BHVR"
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Hey! I am currently still in mourning and am in the "grr im so angrey" stage:
ADDITIONAL STEALTH NERFS TO TWINS NOT MENTIONED IN ANY PATCH NOTES:
-No longer have collision. Remember how you could block door ways with Charlotte? No longer! This was deemed too "creative" by the Devs, so that has been taken away. You can now glide through Charlotte like a specter or something
-Back to Back view. Remember a couple patches ago, when you latched on to a Survivor you switched back to Charlotte right away. That's gone. Now we are back to Victor View after he latches on, adding another 1.5 secs to Charlottes "awaken" time.
-Victor now consumes PWYF stacks. Dev's are insistent that bab- err I mean brother Victor is not a Killer, but a Power. A Power that can be blinded with flashlights. And destroyed by pallets. Right.
Still testing all Add-ons and bugs. I will update this when I discover more.
Post edited by Moxie on42 -
Here's hoping that it's at least recognized that this feels like hell to play as by the devs. It takes so long to switch to Charlotte and it does not feel good at all. Not to mention like you said with how it takes 1.5 seconds after piggybacking to switch automatically back to Charlotte feels terrible as well.
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You forgot that Victor now consumes PWYF stacks
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THANK YOU.
I knew I was forgetting something.
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Lol. 'Extremely strong' in brown ranks against survivors who have three hours of play time. They are the second worst killer in game, right behind Trickster.
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I always wondered why BHVR is so afraid of PWYF stacks. I wanted to try a Nemesis + PWYF meme build on Trickster with double speed add-ons but nope, because apparently knives consume PWYF stacks. Why not make it so knives that bring down a health state make you lose a PWYF stack? Man.
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Errr competent survivors absolutely destroy this Killer. Don't know what you are talking about.
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Wow, that legit sucks even tho I never used pwyf on them.... Ok, I see why people are upset,but I still think they aren't hurt from what they do best, at least not totally
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That's the issue I feel though. They aren't hurt from what they do best and are instead encouraged to continue what they do as opposed to diverting to a more healthy playstyle.
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Wow. For not even mentioning all that in those notes it's quite insulting. That stuff is more than QoL changes.
They're really trying hard to kill the only 3 people that actually play The Twins.
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Yes, I suppose... Remember this tho, Almo really likes insidious bubba and thinks he's cool, so with that in mind it seems the devs have some idea what they want in this game and what they don't.
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Damn, as someone who actually enjoyed playing The Twins this is quite sad. They really chose to nerf a killer that is barely seen, yikes!
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I'm upset they removed collision from charolette. Placing her in front of door ways to cut off loops and herd survivors into dead zones was super rewarding.
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I don’t see any killer bullied as much at red ranks than the twins.
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Nerfing the killer that nobody plays...Devs being devs, as usual.
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I couldn't get the GIF, so this will have to do.
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needs two coffins :(
#savethetwins
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That counts, I love you. No homo.
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I noticed that after pounce downing someone as victor, after the slow walk cool down is over there seems to be another few seconds where his speed ramps back up to full. Also, you can't switch back to charolette until you are back at "full speed"
Is this just me?
They just feel so janky right now
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Again, I'm not sure where the "widen the window for counterplay" comes from with these patches. Survivors who know to stick together will still do that and kick victor appropriately when he downs and the survivors that don't know what to do will continue to just run away except now every time you're eating a DS whenever you aren't kicked. The only thing that's really changed that you're being punished more for playing the Twins.
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F for my Twins.
They had so much potential- great and original power, looks creepy, (some) gameplay being fun af- but the devs have murdered this character. I can't play them in any serious way or high ranked game anymore.
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Just went against a rank 1 twins - they had no issue getting a 3k.
So guess it's not THAT bad - shocker hyperbole on the forums.
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grats gamer, sounds like he missed out on a 4k due to the nerf personally
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The no collision is mainly due to being able to fully block access to a hook while you play as Victor. As a survivor, you need to be able to access hooks. Blame people abusing that, not the devs. If 3 survivors are inside the basement and the killer just body blocks as Charlotte while searching you as Victor, there is nothing you can do.
The change is that you can adjust your camera while being Charlotte, allowing you to track before controlling rather than only having very limited vision. Add on to that fact that it's likely a bug that came with altering her values.
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Eyeroll. Whatever justification you think is needed to cover for mistakes in a match.....
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Go nerf. I Agree :-)
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Well was it due to camping and/or slugging with Victor? 'Cause that's the behavior that I personally want to veer away from. The point of this funeral is to point out that that style of play isn't fun for either side, not to lament any power loss. (Albeit tanking a 5 second stun upon a down and not being able to switch back to Charlotte upon Victor landing on a healthy survivor immediately is kind of a power loss.)
I mean if you enjoy being camped and/or slugged that's you, you do you. I personally don't fully like playing that way.
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You already CAN access the basement if Charlotte's at the entrance because the basement is intentionally designed to be wide enough for a Killer to be unable to bodyblock it (except on new Abattoir with narrow basement stairs for some reason).
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Nope there wasn't any camping or slugging that I saw. I did 4 rescues, but was lucky enough to only be hooked once. I rarely go against slugging or camping killers - and if I do they are usually the occasional purple rank that ends up with red rank survivors. In my experience not that many red rank killers tunnel - and even less camp.
Had another match against Twins about an hour ago - they 4k'd us at 1 gen left. Unfortunately we did not get to Devour Hope in time which resulted in 2 people dying - 1 via Devour Hope Mori before we found the totem. Again - no slugging or camping. They did "slug" one survivor but that was because they waited 20 seconds or so to pick them up because I think they were afraid of DS. This was a rank 2 Twins with just under 1k hours in game.
While my experience since the change is only two matches - seemed just like any other match with Twins I have had before.
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The first one I am willing to concede that they were a good twins player and did well working past that 5 second stun. The second match though I feel is more Devour hope doing work than Victor at that point.
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Uhhh it's a perk - it's a high risk perk. I blame my lazy teammates for not doing any totems. I did three dull totems - and found Devour Hope as soon as I could when it became apparent.
All killers use the tools (perks) available to them to win. Had they not had Devour Hope they would have still got a 2k definitely - and probably a 3k... and possibly a 4k unless I would have been lucky and found the hatch.
I know you are trying to paint the Twins as mainly limited to slugging/camping due to being "underpowered", but that just isn't my experience. The most sluggy/camping killers at red ranks that I run into are Wraith and Bubbas....and that is few and far between.
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what the patch notes don't tell you is now charlotte has no collision
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It's more so that I don't want The Twins to be pigeonholed into being a slugging/camping killer. This nerf is honestly something that will hurt them in the long run, especially without any real buff to off-set this in any way. Trust me when I say playing the Twins right now feels like dragging them through mud. The 8+ seconds it takes to have Charlotte wake up and get moving after a successful hit, even if it isn't a down, is immensely hurtful to them in the long run. I recommend giving them a go if you haven't already and testing the change first hand. It does NOT feel pleasant.
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F.
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It's always amusing seeing what the people on these forums think of particular killers. I have a feeling most of them don't actually play, and just parrot what they have read in other threads?
Twins is high B, low-mid A tier after this change. Solidly A tier before this nerf.
She is one of the most oppressive killers to go against, at red ranks, when played by a good killer player.
Everyone on the Korean server knows this fact. It's strange that the people on this forum keep insisting that Twins are low tier. Like, honestly makes me wonder if I'm playing the same game as these people.
Twins just need to be reworked. They aren't fun to go against when a skilled red rank player plays them.
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I had already found the 5 seconds recovery too much (even though the reason for it is understandable), but this is infuriating.
I hope they revert the collision and this aditional time in Viktor's view, I see no reason to limit creativity with a killer and to make them waste more time with their power. Yeah, I know the Twins are a strong killer and people really underrate them. I actually love to play them, but I don't feel as motivated to play as before after knowing one of the ways you could use their power is simply gone all of sudden. On a stealth nerf.
The worst part is this going live without warning after weeks of PTB.
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They were bad before and they're worse now.
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I play the Twins very often and I agree they are actually really strong, but I still think this stealth nerf is terrible. To begin with, is a stealth nerf. Second, it literally removed from the game one of the creative ways you could use Charlotte and Viktor together, which is just killing part of the fun. Their opressiveness doesn't really come from that, it comes mostly from Viktor being able to apply a lot of pressure and to catch up to survivors with ease, but even that I don't think is an issue, they also have plenty of counters if survivors know what they are doing (pre-dropping pallets can render Viktor nearly useless at some loops, for example).
Downing every survivor and winning many matches earlier through slugging? That's an actual issue (they are not the only killer who can get earlier 4K's via slugging, but yeah, they can do that against average players more easily than any other killer). Still, making them waste time after hitting a healthy survivor has no impact on that whatsoever. The recovery nerf tries to adress that, but doesn't really give a reason to the Twins not to try and slug everyone, considering it still a needed strategy due to her strenghts and weaknesses.
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"(except on new Abattoir with narrow basement stairs for some reason)" This was what I was referring to. And Bloodlodge.
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There was an unannounced buff, too: Survivors with Victor on their back now cannot unhook other survivors anymore. I would say this is a more substantial change than the three others combined, as you can now leave Victor at a hook, get a notification when a survivor is approaching for the unhook, and deny that unhook.
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Did I really upset that many people playing Twins with PWYF? Were there actually others? ROFL. Just sad I didn’t get to use all my BPS and Puddings on them before the nerfs.
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You guys are getting matched against Twins? Hell i even thought they removed them from the game.
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That was always a thing - or, at least, was a thing prior to the nerf. I played Twins a lot prior to the nerf, and I've seen survivors try.
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Prior to which nerf? I have unhooked people while Victor was on my back plenty of times. I haven't been able to do so ever since the Mid-Chapter Update.
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They changed Twins a while back, but didn't mention it in the patch notes - I believe it was the Clown midchapter, or around then. That was the patch that gave Charlotte camera control while waking up (this was already a thing, don't know why BHVR said the most recent Twins changes added it), and made you able to see Victor's aura on a survivor for a few seconds while waking up. I believe this was also the patch that made incapacitated survivors unable to unhook.
Of course, nobody plays Twins so I wasn't able to go against them and find out for myself, but I had lots of times where incapacitated survivors wouldn't unhook, even in front of my face - they'd just stand next to the hook and start removing Victor, then stop, then start again. This happened frequently enough, and I never saw an incapacitated survivor unhook, that I rightly assumed it was made impossible. As it should be, unhooking with Victor on your back was a bit silly.
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I'm certain I've unhooked people with Victor clinging to me long after the Clown update. Most people seemingly just assumed you're unable to do so and as such never even tried, at least that's what I observed in my games as and against Twins. McLean said the Incapacitated status effect functionally was based on the Madness status effect, and you can unhook people in Madness III.
I'm not sure it should be impossible to unhook when afflicted by Incapacitated; Twins' ability to essentially hard-camp hooks while still being able to apply pressure around the map at the same time is a controversial aspect of their gameplay as it is, this interaction makes that aspect of their gameplay even more potent. Survivors can crouch up to the hook to at least prevent the killer instinct notification on Victor, but for one thing he has quite the range on that, and for another you regularly won't know whether Victor is around the hook before you hear him, at which point the first killer instinct proc will already happen, so you would have to crouch up to the hook preemptively from an even greater distance. I don't think the way to go with Twins is to buff their camping potential, or to buff Victor altogether, but to buff Charlotte while making them excel a little less at slugging and camping in the process.
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Just went against a rank 1 trickster who got a 4k. I guess he is op.
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If only.
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