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Twins nerf is a clown show, exactly like we warned
This nerf just makes the Twins feel awful to play without actually solving their problems.
Where is the anti-camping failsafe that people like Otz and myself have been vouching for? Victor can be put under a hook and someone hooked on top of him, but apparently not getting DS'd for downing someone is too much to ask.
Meanwhlie you're given a swirlie by the BHVR development team for daring to down an injured person with a power that can only track blood not scratchmarks and disables for 30 seconds if you hit someone healthy with it. For God's sakes BHVR, it's like you WANT Twins players to camp at that point, since you're nerfing the interactive part of the Twins (chasing with Victor) and keeping the unfair part.
I made a video about this as soon as it went on PTB and basically nothing was done. It's disappointing, and I wish Twins had a bigger playerbase who could kick up enough of a fuss about it for it to matter.
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I don't think you making a video about it is enough for the devs to want to do anything about it.
Twins is one of the least popular killers for probably a lot of reasons and it seems to me like the issues are fundemental. 'Rework' territory for lack of a better term
Doesn't help that Twins is probably one of the hated killers to go against for a lot of people due to their typical playstyle. I don't mean to generalise though, It's not the same for everyone.
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It doesn't solve the issue of people being unaware they can kick Victor, it just lets them get away with ignorance. I guess they don't want us five people who main the twins to keep playing them.
They even nerfed stale biscuit which used to work on successful down pounce reset cooldown as well. They also didn't mention the 30 second collision removal on Charlotte in the patch notes.
#savethetwins
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Thing is, they're not in rework territory though. When you don't camp with them they're fine, and none of the changes that have been made to them since they came out have actually hurt the camping. If anything, the changes have INCENTIVISED Twins players to camp by this last nerf eviscerating Victor's chase.
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Yeah I'm confident you're right about that and I respect the POV
I'm just of the belief that the problems with Twins on both sides are fundemental ones, something that changing numbers just won't fix.
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This seems like the Freddy nerf back in 2017 that was clearly intended to just put a lid on him so the complaints would stop.
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Well, there aren't many of us, but suffice to say the complaints about this have only just begun.
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Still haven't gotten a chance to test the changes yet, but how is chasing with Victor interactive? You can't really chase effectively against something that moves at 150% speed with a 1 second attack charge time unless you're at a very particular place on the map when he shows up. 90% of the time you just have to hope he can't aim or that the that latency gods are smiling.
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Yeah, the Twins nerf was wack as hell.
To bad even with people complaining Behavior probably still won't do anything.
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How does this eviscerate Victor's chase? All it does it all but guarantee a survivor can crush you if you whiff your attack, or if you hit your attack on an injured survivor but two survivors are next to each other. It does nothing to hurt you in the 1v1 unless you're missing your attacks.
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Nobody plays twins so the devs didn’t really care. They wanted to reduce the slugging potential of twins which isn’t a bad idea in concept but if you don’t buff them in any other way to compensate.
Twins are probably going to stay like this for awhile sadly
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It applies to SUCCESSFUL hits, not missed ones. If you whiff your attack it's not affected.
A Survivor can travel 18m to kick Victor after a successful down and still have time for a kick... which is the same as Deathslinger's maximum range. "Next to each other" is pretty generous when Survivors are as lethal to you as Deathslinger is to Survivors. As long as one of them is on the same continent as you they'll be able to get the kick for sure.
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I haven't experienced it yet, but removingng collision from Charlotte is BS. Giving vik a DS for lunging is BS. De-incentivizing them from doing anything other than camping is BS. When people realize how easy it is to Cuck Viktor now, I see twins being affected meaningfully, in the negative...
And what statistic did they look at that told them the twins needed this kind of a nerf? Instead of wasting time making a change to twins, they could have made Trickster not a redundant trash killer, but they devoted time to making a nuanced, multifaceted killer easily countered by bunching up. Do they even know what the point of this killer is? How was that the obvious change this killer needed in their mind?
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Lol well if it only applies to successful hits it's even weaker than I thought it was; I thought it was both. Nevermind not eviscerating his chase, a cooldown on successful hits does absolutely nothing to Victor's chase. It just makes it a bit harder to snowball, which was exactly the devs intention. There is not a chance of a survivor 18m away kicking Victor after a successful hit. He can move now while on cooldown now, the crush prompt is finicky, obstacles will increase the time it takes to reach him, and you're not going to want to risk attempting a crush when he's more than a short distance away because not getting there in time is a free hit for Victor. You're realistically going to have to be pretty darned close to reliably crush him after a successful hit, like within 10m after he downs someone. Two survivors close enough together for one to crush Victor after a down seems like a perfect opportunity for Charlotte to apply pressure.
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Dude, we get it. They isn't a single nerf to killers that you don't love and agree whole-heartedly with the devs on. But instead dancing on graves, why don't you imagine for a second that you actually enjoy playing killer and empathize with others frustration over another unnecessary, over-thinking nerf? Not to mention the shadow nerfs that feel VERY unnecessary and lack reasoning (taking away collision from Charlotte removes a whole tool from twins, and it definitely had it's place and uses that weren't related to camping)
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The twins are destined for a complete rework down the line, I’m sure. The only reason they won’t do it now is because they’re a new killer, and it wouldn’t reflect well on them completely changing a killer they just released.
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I'd respect them more if they just did it even though there are like 5 of us who main them in their current state lol
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Man it feels just so bad. It doesn't fix any of their issues while simultaneously making them less fun to play...when they're already the least played killer in the game...
Eating a DS on every hit is such a terrible idea.
Not to mention the slew of nerfs they didn't even bother to put in the patch notes because they don't even realize how much of a nerf they are. So much for creative use of Charlotte. As if she wasn't already near useless enough, we found some little use for her in blocking escape routes, gens, or totems and now even that's gone.
It feels like they really just don't want anyone at all playing the Twins.
Post edited by Blueberry on2 -
I woulda been one of those players to help kick up a fuss, but I was on the fence about buying the Twins. After all of this and the nerfs though, I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on that purchase...
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Or, you know, let them have their own opinion. If someone thinks this nerf isn't that much of a deal, they are allowed to have that opinion and express it.
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My man, what is the point of this post, exactly? I don't have the power or right to take their opinion away from them. I do have the right to voice my opinion on their posts, and I did just that.
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I'd like to echo that I've been playing them a lot this past week and this change feels really awkward and bad. All this change really seems to do is make normal non-slug/camp gameplay as them even worse and it makes them even weaker vs SWF players that stick together but does nothing to fix the problem of them being a slugging/camping powerhouse against solo players. It should be reverted imo.
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I mean...
I'm not complaining lol.
Less boring Twins players is fine by me. :^)
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I enjoy both sides and often advocate for buffs and nerfs to both sides, but by all means, carry on.
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I guess there was no point to the post, you just seemed to have gotten a bit offended by his different opinion.I am just surprised again and again how many people on this forum are seriously challenged by the idea that different people have different opinions.
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Chasing/being chased with/by Victor is not really interactive at all. That would be like saying that feral frenzy chases are interactive. The Twins' whole design as killer is a failure. BHVR clearly doesn't know what to do with them right now. So, they just nerfed them for the time being while waiting for a rework that is almost a given will come some time down the line.
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Wait, they removed Charlotte's collision? Bloody hell, what's the point in playing Twins if they can't even benefit from splitting in two bodies... That kills all possibilities to actually play them normally.
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they also removed charlotte's collision
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I played with the Twins yesterday and onestly the nerf wasn't that bad.
I agree that camping is too strong with them though. New BT can help, but it's still a problem that playing with the Twins you end up camping even if you don't want to.
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well they have to rework trickster too.,
that's 2 ######### killers that need a rework
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It really didn't change anything except make the twins feel clunkier to play. It's incredible how bad it feels getting DS'd 20 times in a match lol.
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It does seem like that challenges you. It's as if differing opinions are for discussing or something, huh?
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Thanks for the offer, but I'm good. Said what I needed to say. Now I'll let it be. Maybe you should too.
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What are you talking about? You immediately assume he supports every killer nerf and doesn't care for killer at all just because he doesn't think the nerf to Twins is that bad.
It's so obviously not a comment on your opinion, which I even agree with, the nerf was stupid.
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Honestly, the nerf doesn't seem that bad. I played a few games yesterday and the 5-second cooldown isn't that bad. Yeah, it sucks you can't switch back and I hope they change that, but otherwise it isn't bad.
I'm trying to improve my Twins and I've noticed that going for healthy people grouped together as Victor is much more beneficial than going for downs. Slugging with Victor is now only reserved for stragglers, which is kinda how it was before but now it's just easier for Survivors. That's just what I think though. I also said "seem" because I can never be completely sure unless I test it for a while.
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Dowsey put it best himself, the best way to nerf the Twins would be a longer Victor cooldown. Not punishing the killer for landing hits.
I hate this killer and think their entire design is flawed but it's obvious we're not getting a rework, just nerfing numbers will ruin the killer for the 3 people out there that actually like them.
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Trickster just needs a very simple change, 115%.
He's INCREDIBLY strong in open areas on maps like the center of Blood Lodge or maps with tons of low wall loops, but is completely powerless against high wall tiles like Shack or Jungle Gyms, and being 110% makes him incredibly loopable on these. His power doesn't justify his 110% like Deathslinger or Huntress' powers do.
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he isn't just loopable.
L T walls and shack is infinite against trickster
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True, when I think about most of my downs at L/T and shack, its because I faked going back and the survivor fell for it and ate a few more daggers. Not really anything to do with skill on my end, just them making a very easy to avoid mistake.
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