Borrowed Time Survivor Base Kit Discussion
Camping sucks. Tunneling sucks. Yes they are legit strategies according to the devs but they just aren't fun. Getting unhooked right in front of the killer by a random without BT... not fun. Buff killer in general in some way, and make bt base kit. There's probably more, better arguments, but this is what i can think of off the top.
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yes let’s give survivors essentially 5 perks.
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So you want to give survivors a free escape perk plus four perk slots to punish Killers for playing well and reward Survivors for failure.
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Then you need something to counter bodyblocking. It would maybe be fair if a survivor with bt has no collision and killer get a bonus for not tunneling.
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Id be open to it on a couple conditions
1. Regular BT got nerfed a lot (so about 5 additional seconds)
2. Built in BT was approximately 5 seconds.
3. Remove bodyblocking with BT active survivor
4. (This I'm not as committed to) disable one or both after egc starts
Maybe not this exactly but something like this feels reasonable to me imo. I play both sides equally
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This. I get accused of tunneling daily when the survivor who has BT protection will actively block for his teammate that just unhooked him. BT needs to make you completely unable to hinder the Killer at all until it wears off.
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Look I understand you're position, yeah getting camped and tunneled as a survivor sucks. I hate when it happens and I've even rarely DC'd because of it.
I play both sides and I'd like to present a situation to you that I ran into yesterday playing killer. I was just doing rift challenges so I was playing it cool. wasn't camping or anything. and as a killer you have to hook to get the most points so I was still hooking when I down someone.
Well, I put someone on a hook and I literally took 3 steps away from the hook and someone was there pulling them off. I head them run up 2 steps and go for the the save. I turned around to swing at the person doing the save and it hit the person coming off the hook who had borrowed time. Free hit and a burst of speed I ended up loosing them both because of the swing recovery time where you can't move.
I wasn't even out of range of the hook yet and there was still no way to punish someone for a dangerous save. But you can bet if I had just stood there after hooking them I would have been called a camper and trash. Hell I'm called that anyway by toxic teams.
The thing that a lot of survivors miss is; sometimes if a killer is camping they know you're around or they know someone is just trying to lead you off so someone can go for a quick save. I've done that as survivor too. It's when you're camped and no one is around that's annoying.
You still think that BT should be base kit? they just gave it a buff where it activates no matter where the killer is with a time decrease to balance it.
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BT extends a chase for too long if the survivor is worth anything. We'd need to make a perk like ruin into a base kit for killers to justify such a buff on survivors.
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Sure, lets give killers NOED for a base kit, cuz genrushing is not fun either.
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I feel this post so much, it makes you wonder why do hits get prioritized to the survivor on the hook when unhooking happens? Like there's truly no reason I should be able to still hit them if they're on the hook, it feels really bad to have my hits just vanish and then be put into a cooldown when essentially nothing happened.
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There's a really simple solution to this but it might throw off balance so I'm not saying it should be implemented.
Allow killers to move during the swing cool down. That might be a bit too powerful though.
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Maybe change bt so that it gives survivor the spirit treatment. They get endurance invisibility and no collision for 10 seconds after an unhook. But disable it in egc.
And maybe IF there is some from of possibility to determine if the unhooker is just doing a stupid play, let them get injured in the process as an additional incentive for the killer to ignore the freshly unhooked but that would make the perk not desirable.
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That would indeed be too powerful. The amount of bodyblocking killers would be at an all-time high.
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Oh and part of this is to encourage more variety in survivors. I honestly don't think I've ever had a game where someone wasn't running this perk. I'm a bit surprised they buffed a meta perks this significantly since it was already used a ton
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Survivors just got one of the best anti tunneling changes in this update so that there is always an obsession and the threat of ds always looms, is that not enough
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BT as base kit would be way too strong, and I say this as someone who plays both sides so I’m not anti-survivor by any means. It’s a very good perk and just got a really nice buff so it works against every killer; there’s pretty much no reason not to run it now.
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So lets reward the survivors for their poor decision making?
Being tunneled is one of the worst experiences but making BT part of the base kit would make playing killer even more frustrating. It would give all survivors another second chance opportunity.
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Play with friends. Solves all problems caused by bad randoms.
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Lets give killers NOED for a base kit
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Short answer: No.
Long Answer: free BT as a countermeasure to killer tactics is just a bandaid that won't fix the issue while promoting an unhealthy survivor playstyle. It's better to discourage assholish tactics by making them ineffective either through in-match measures or post-match rewards.
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Honestly, I die so often on my first hook without a single teammate even trying to save me, it wouldn't make a difference to me.
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BT play spam is already a very miserable body blocking simulator as it is. It SHOULD NOT be baseline.
It also makes people play worse on average because they want to use their perk/not want to try to respect the killer
Trust me when I say this: Its very easy to tell when a survivor relies on BT to do all their saves and even more so when they try them without it. I have died so many times from people who clearly rely on BT too much trying to do saves without it.
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The problem with this argument is that we're essentially saying survivors have poor game sense, so we need to buff them tremendously. That causes a huge amount of power creep at the top end of play. There has to be some expectation that survivors need to play well to win.
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My complaint with camping is that it's boring and there isn't anything you can do to stop it. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if there was something that you could do but at the moment the only option is don't get caught which would be fine if the game wasn't designed to have you get caught in a chase, i mean that's why killers are faster at base level and get faster with bloodlust.
I suppose if we set it so killers they didn't just get faster and faster during chases then the survivor could actually manage to not get caught against a similarly skilled killer but then there'd have to be some sort of expectation that killers need to play well and I don't think that would go over well.
Besides the game is more fun when the killers can catch survivors easier so why not just make camping so terrible for killers they stop using it
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Honestly this game is so overloaded with perks we might need to reach a point of consolidating perks down on both sides. Make bt, ds, and deadhard be a part of the survivor base kit. Let's make pop and BBQ (without the bonus bloodpoints) base on killer. I think the more we can add to the base kits the more we can actually allow for build variety. I'm not saying go crazy but the base survivor and killer kits have been the same since 2016. They can stand to have gotten better and more experienced at base.
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If a killer really wants to tunnel they don’t care about obsession/DS .
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I wouldn’t say BT and Deadhard basekit, but this nerfed DS version could definitely be basekit.
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Yes but a killer who is on the fence and didn't risk it while there was an obsession, but tunneled relentlessly because they knew they didn't get punished with no obsession, now always have that deterrent.
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if survivors get BT for free then i want pop for free. Is pop for free a horrible idea likely to kill the game? absolutely. Giving survivors BT for free would be equally detrimental to the game
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Although killers should get a built in, far weaker pop. Gen kicking is insanely weak base
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No. Next.
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The solution to camping and tunneling is not to just make perks basekit. They need to create systems around them that make it so the killer is punished more (in terms of gameplay, not literally) for camping and tunneling.
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Heck no. This would be a 5th perk, on top of a 4 perk meta, on top of SWF w/ voice comms.
Why is it everyone's answers to 'camping' (which is not a 'problem' and does not 'need fixing'), is something that completely screws over Killers?
It's like everyone's motive is just to make the game easier for Survivors. 🤔
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all genuises in this post who blissfuly ignore the "killers need to be buffed to make this viable" live in their bubble to this day
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I do agree but thats not really the point though. kicking without perks is pretty much useless.
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DS should be basekit that work on both hook. BorrowTime should be basekit. But disable both of them when 5 Gen done or EGC start (incase hatch close)
Killer should have 1 tokens that able to M1 instant down healthy survivor when 5 Gen done. New objectives must be added.
Survivors should not have to use 2nd chance perk to fight tunnel & camp. Killer should not have to use slow down perk to extend trial time.
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That would absolutely break the game. Hooking 12 times is rare enough as it is. Imagine needing to do it every game to 4 survivors with essentially 6 perks each.
1 measly instadown at the end of the game is a pathetic trade off for a ridiculous survivor buff.
Why can't people take responsibility for their own gameplay. Avoid risky saves. Get better at running the killer.
You already have the choice to run BT and DS, why should it be made basekit?
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3 seconds of Endurance and Sprint Burst for an unhooked Survivor, overridden by BT's longer duration. Unhooked Survivor has no collision until hit or Endurance wears off.
Self-unhooks including Kobe and Deliverance will not trigger unhook Endurance but still enable the Sprint Burst.
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If you want to make Survivor perks baseline then do the same for Killers. Don’t suggest to super buff one role and leave the other in the dust.
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Killers bought the game, they can play how ever they want, you are not entitled to your free escape
Survivors bought the game, they can play how ever they want. They can use strong loops, all the pallets and do gens as fast as they can.
What's with this game and its community? I'll never get it....
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Just run it every game. It's the best survivor perk in the game right now in my opinion. Survivor becomes so much stronger if it was base kit. As someone says it's effectively 5 perk slots if implemented.
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BT & DS basekit doesnt mean you have to 12 hooks every time. Or mean you have to 9 hook to kill the first survivor. It mean you have to focus on other 3 rather than unhooked one, or enduring through BT & DS if you hard tunneling.
Beside, you can 5 hook kill the first survivor (Survivor A, then B, then A, then D, then dead hook A). BT & DS only protect you from tunneling, doesnt help survivor progressing anything while being invisible.
With disable both BT & DS when 5 Gen done, you're more likely ensure 1 to die than currently game where BT & DS still active.
1 instant down, I mean it only work on the 1st healthy survivor (not lose token if M1 injured). Which mean when 5 Gen done, your M1 will always be an instant down. At that time, some survivor would be on their death hook. You know what's the fun, if you M1 an injured one and hook him. Other 3 may not dare to secure him because you still have M1 instant down available, and most of the time there are not always 4 survivors still alive at 5 Gen done. If there are 2 survivors left, there is no way the other can unhook, by any mean.
You totally underestimate a single instant down hit at end game where BT & DS are no more a thing.
As I said adding more Objectives, I didnt say how long/complicating the objectives are. But they should be enough so Killer dont have to 3 hook kill 1st survivor like current game.
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