Emblems should reward playstyle, not perk choice.
As the title says, I feel that the emblem system has been out long enough to be adjusted and refined. This is especially so since emblems such as Gatekeeper are heavily reliant on a killer's slowdown perks, which is probably why we see more gen slowing perks than not in a game. It's been three years since the emblem system came out, and I think it's high time for them to be given a more defined look and fix to promote better and more fun gameplay.
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Actually, kinda want to touch on this as well. The Emblem system as a whole, I feel is entirely off balance. Even for survivor, it feels off balance. That hook rushing Meg who never touched a gen and went down in 30 seconds? Pipped. The Dwight who did 3 gens solo? Usually won't get a pip if he didn't get a chance to heal anyone or have multiple good chases.
For killer it's possible to kill too fast, if you don't at least double hook everyone, you probably won't get that emblem. Insta-down killers or any type of 1 tap potential also get hurt by the emblem system. Billy who uses his chainsaw to down everyone quickly? Brutal Killer, because he didn't have long chases with 2 hits, and 1 hooked everyone. Plague and her mechanics are also hurt by the emblem system, where it's recommended to not use her power if you want to get adept. Pyramid Head Cages for what ever reason, unless it's been fixed, I don't think count towards the emblem for hooking. Then you get onto the Gatekeeper emblem...
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Problem with Killer emblems is that the hook counts one and Gatekeeper are technically controlled by the survivors.
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Another issue with killer emblems is that Devout and Malicious reward the same thing. Because Malicious erases its points with overhang when survivors heal (as in, more points are lost for healing than gained by damaging - which is not a good choice, imo, the killer cannot be everywhere at once and there is zero reason to punish killers for survivors healing if the killer ends up smacking them back down anyways), the quantity of Malicious points that actually matters is tied to hook states.
I can't really think of how to fix this, because making Malicious focus on damage turns it into a clone of Chaser instead.
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The wiki has a really good breakdown of each Emblem and what gives points to what and how many points they need for each rank.
But, yeah, them and the pipping system need a lot of work.
For Malicious you need to make it more like the BP categories in that they each Killer gets points for their powers, that way insta-down Killer don't get punished for using their power to insta-down. So like with Plague you get 1 point whenever they go from Healthy to Injured via Infection and with someone like Cannibal or Ghostface the single hit downs give 2 points instead of only 1.
Devout also needs a rework where you can get more than a Bronze by not sacrificing anyone. It really sucks that if I double hook everyone but don't sacrifice one of them I still only get a Bronze but if I get a 4k from single hooking everyone I get a Gold. It should count total number of hooks, not sacrifices. 4 hooks for Bronze, 6 for Silver, 8 for Gold and 10+ for Iridescent, with there being a bonus 1 point for hooking everyone at least once like there is now and maybe also keep the bonus 1 for reaching a total of nine hooks. This way you have a 3-4 point buffer for if someone goes second stage first hook for whatever reason or even dies on first hook.
Chaser also needs a small tweak in that you don't loose the points for being near a hook if you are [i]in a chase at the time[/i]. Far too many Survivor loop the Killer around a hooked teammate and the Killer shouldn't be punished for that. Punish them for camping the hook, yes, but not for not wanting to just let a Survivor go because they happen to be running around someone else on hook.
I honestly think Gatekeeper is the one Emblem that doesn't need much in the way or reworking. The whole point to to keep gens from being done and Perks are a large part of that. Maybe tweak the numbers a bit so there is some sort of multiplier based on how long it took for the first gen to get done. But even then often times keeping the first gen from being done is the hardest thing a Killer can do. The first and second gens are pretty much free depending on factor like how large the map map and where people spawn and all that so it's tricky, sometimes even the third gen is a lost cause if Survivors got lucky. But it really does suck having to draw out a match to farm Gaterkeeper points so I don't really know what to say here.
Survivor Emblems are also really out of date and need some love as well.
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I feel gatekeeper though does need a smidge of help. Yeah I get keeping gens from popping, but I don't want to be forced into bringing a gen defense perk in order to do well as a killer. I think tweaking the numbers would be perfect, but I really just wanna branch out with my perks instead of being forced to use the same ones in order to keep the status quo.
And devout don't even get me started on. Quite often I've seen a game where I've gotten everyone on last-hook and been shown what feels like an undeserved bronze. This is probably why 4ks are seen as wins, which is what the devs DO NOT want to be intended.
I guess what I'm saying is it's high time for an emblem adjustment after 3 years.
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Gatekeeper emblems could be fixed somewhat by not doing the thing where they give rewards per gens left per second - this means using Corrupt Intervention will give you huge early game gen defense points as long as you're vaguely competent, and playing a killer like Trapper or Hag that sacrifices their early game to have a powerful late game suffer heavily in this area, because even if it took the same amount of time for all gens to be completed, the game rewards you more for protecting the first gens than it does the last ones. But the first gens are also the ones most up to your perks, killer, and the RNG of how survivors spawn and how hard it is to down the first guy.
The game should also automatically give you iridescent gatekeeper if the game ends and the generators were not completed. Change the +28 to a +100 so there's no funky situations where you get gold because you won the game too early.
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I was honestly really surprised not to hear anything on emblem adjustment in the anniversary event. Kind of disappointed actually all things considered.
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In the old days Gatekeeper used to still give you progress as long as gens weren't done.
Like, for the entire match. This was a "problem" (Although I agree with the reasoning) because there was many games where the survivors would blow through 4 gens quickly, but the killer stiff-arms them with a nasty 3-gen at the end, (Typically, a Doctor.) and they can't pop the final gen, and the match lasts like an hour. Iri gatekeeper.
Basically gatekeeper was too easy to get iri on, but I dislike the new system because it's very heavily influenced on the early-game, where gen defense is the hardest, and once you "fall behind" the game's expectations for gen defense there's no real way to recover the emblem even if you wind up defending a 3-gen against 4 survivors while coming out on top.
Also the other emblems have issues as other people mentioned. I forgot exactly but one emblem gives you points for HITS on survivors, yet you get penalized for them healing, meaning a one-hit like BIlly's chainsaw (+1 point) and the survivor recovers and heals completely (so -2 points) docks the killer a point he can never get back. Plague is also unfairly punished since IIRC infecting survivors with vile purge and they cleanse also docks points.
I'm not 100% on this, but I believe Myers tombstoning someone also counts as them losing a chase, since the survivor "Escapes" during the tombstone animation, and I'm pretty sure the actual transition from Alive to Dead once the animation is over with doesn't count as a hit either. I know Myers can tombstone all 4 survivors and depip over it.
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Huh, interesting about Gatekeeper. If I'm honest, though, the player that holds a 3gen for 30 minutes should get iri Gatekeeper. They kept those gates damn shut. It makes more sense than a Trapper barely getting gold gatekeeper even though he 4ked at one gen left because he was too busy setting up to defend the first three gens.
Malicious emblems do account for double damage states, actually; it's Chaser that suffers for instadowns because you only get half as many chases. Plague doesn't have a great Malicious game because survivors can recover health states so easily against her and killers lose more points for heals than they gain for damage, but she suffers more in Chaser because survivors being one-taps earns less points than survivors having two health states each chase. Also, yes, sickness damage doesn't count as a won chase or a damage state via Malicious. Legion has the strongest Malicious game, because deep wound hits are persistent - mending doesn't count as a heal.
Myers tombstoning people is all kinds of weird as far as interactions go - it doesn't count as a hostile interaction, no PWYF stacks lost. But you'd probably depip even if it did register properly for Chaser and Malicious. 4 chases total, 8 stages of damage, no hook states, gold Devout because you didn't 9-hook.
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emblem system isnt reliable on how you played
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Exactly. It doesn't represent well on the deeds of the player. Instead if specifically harms instadown and/or late game killers and forces others into playing with game delay perks instead of running builds that are more innovative.
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Malicious only takes into account one-hits if you actually hook the Survivor in question. One hit down is +1 point, them being healed is -1 point, while a New Hook Stage is +2 points.
So if you insta-down someone but slug them for one reason or another and the person is picked up off the ground you're net 0 (because going from Dying to Injured counts) and then you're actually -1 over all if they go back to Healthy before you get back to them.
So T3 Myers is kinda punished for not taking the time to hook someone he downs right away and instead trying to make the most out of his ability. Bubba and Billy are not hit as hard but if you catch two or three Survivors in a bad spot it's really tempting to down one and go for the other(s). Plague is indeed hurt a bit more in the Chaser emblem but also gets hurt in Malicious as well if she's not hooking to try and make the best use out of a Corrupt Purge.
So, yeah, the take away there is to not play any insta-down Killer of you're chasing Iridescent Emblems.
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Oof, I didn't realize that was the case. I knew there was a health state skipped in the process of coming off the hook, but I was under the impression Malicious filed 2 points for instadowns/grabs, not just the one. That does explain how Malicious so often creates net negatives, though.
That just makes it all the more absurd, honestly. What is the point of Malicious when the only points you can get that won't be erased (or worse, erased and then some) are either hook states or the damage people keep on their way out the door? It's just a clone of Devout that cares more about the number of hook stages than the number of survivors killed. The amount of damage you inflict on survivors over the course of the game has very little to do with it, despite the description.
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The whole point of this thread is talking about how borked the Emblem system is and how it needs a change. The OP was more focused on Gatekeeper but really all of them need something of an update.
Survivor wise Lightbringer is sort of OK, could give full points to everyone co-op on a gen instead of dividing it up and could give more points to everyone alive when the fifth gen is finished. And give some points to everyone alive when a gate is opened, not just the one who opens it.
Unbroken is totally borked and right now straight up goes against Evader and incentivizes a totally immersed "Never interact with the Killer" playstyle because to get Iridescent Unbroken you have to never be put into the Dying state even once. It should be renamed to something like "Survivor" and just focus on making it out alive and not be so heavy on never being downed. As it is right now you can't really get four Iridescent Emblems as Survivor unless you are really, really good at looping and getting out of chases and even then if the Killer decides they want you down there isn't anything you can do if they find you. You'll get some Lightbringer but no Benevolent and only some Evader.
Benevolent is sort of OK, it could give out a few more points to everyone when someone is healed because one person can just be hogging all of the healing and not letting anyone else get points here. But for the most part like Lightbringer this one is fine, could use some more points here while in chase or being a diversion for someone else who had been in chase.
Evader is also fine the way it is, the main problem being that being seen by the Killer is anathema for Unbroken so if Unbroken got changed this problem would go away. And as said above you don't get any Benevolent points while in chase so kinda of eigh, more a problem with Benevolent than Evader.
With Survivor Emblems you've got a "Pick two" sort of deal. You can go for Lightbringer and Unbroken easy enough, just stealth around the whole game and never interact with anyone else. Maybe thrown in some Benevolent if an injured person finds you or you know exactly where the Killer is so you can get an unhook and remain unseen. You could go hard core Evader and always get into chases and hope people are on gens so you get the token Lightbringer points there but you're probably going to go down at some point, if only because you run out of delay resources and no one dives in to take a protection hit at the end so there goes Unbroken.
With Killer Emblems Gatekeeper is a bit too heavy on the early gens. Maybe if the numbers were bumped up by 1 each, expect for the "No gens" 0 one. 6 points every minuet at five gens and so on down the list. And the "Ended the trial with the gates closed" one could be 20 points instead of only 10. I'm not really sure if it should be a straight up Iridescent on that factor alone though because you can lose four gens and jsut snowball at the end and that shouldn't be Iridescent quality. But you shouldn't be punished so badly when you spawn on the furthest point away from a three sided gen that all four Survivors spawned at so not even a minute into the game one gen is finished. If Survivor spawns got changed this wouldn't be such an issue.
Devout is the one I've got the most problem with, personally, because I play Killer so everyone can have fun, because without a Killer other people can't play Survivor. I normally let everyone leave alive* and only kill the toxic ones. As such I often only ever get Bronze, because even if I've got 8 hooks because I never saced anyone I didn't get the major points. This is fine, it is about sacrifices after all, but I think it should reward hooks more than it does sacrifices. Right now you get NO POINTS AT ALL for a hook. You only get 1 point when everyone has been hooked once and then get another 1 point after reaching nine hooks. You get 2 points per sacrifice or kill, but 0 for someone bleeding out. So if you double hook everyone that's only eight hooks and ONLY 1 POINT. I went out of my way to ensure I got two hooks on everyone and I only have 1 POINT to show for it?! Just one more hook on someone gives me 3 more points and puts me in Silver. Also if I facecamp the first person I hook I get 2 points for them dying and can face camp the second person for another 2 and bam, 4 points for Silver. By making it so you get one point per hook and one point per sacrifice you'd make it better to go for more hooks instead of camping for sacs. Change the numbers a bit so it's not 10 points needed for Iridescent but 17 - three hooks on everyone (((hook + 1, hook +1, hook +1, sac +1) x4)) + 1 for hooking everyone at least once), or maybe only 15 for more leeway so you can do Killer Adepts (or just change Killer Adepts again to not be as rough). This would mean you're somewhat more at the mercy of the Depip Squads who leave people on first hook to go to second stage or even die to slam out gens even when you are not camping but there isn't much you can do about them. And you're also at the mercy of bad solo queue Survivors doing the same but, again, not much you can do there. But it'd hit the campers somewhat and I'm all for that.
*Right now I'm trying to hit Rank 1 for the Steam Achievement so I'm chasseing them double pips and as such I'm going for 4ks at the moment.
Malicious we've talked about. The only change here is that you get double points for hitting someone who is Exposed or otherwise downed in one hit. There could also be a special bit for Plague in that she gets two points for hitting a fully infected Survivor but I can understand not wanting to tie Emblem mechanics to Killers like they do the BP categories. Or maybe just lower the numbers needed for each rank so it isn't as punishing to get net 0 points from hits as an insta-down Killer and only the 2 points from hook states.
Chaser is just about perfect. The only change I'd make is that you are not docked points if you are near a hooked Survivor while in chase. I don't want to be here but why should I let this Survivor go when they either failed to hide or ran me to the hook and deliberately stay there while their buddy is struggling?
So, yeah, most of the Emblems are fine, just need minor tweaks, but I feel that Unbroken and Devout both need major overhauls.
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The Emblem system tries to force people to play the game in a specific way. It wants matches drawn out, not fast and efficient. It's a band-aid fix because it's easier to devise a point system to encourage certain behavior than it is to change the actual gameplay to encourage that behavior. Survivors are supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades in every match and a large number of killers have to forgo using their power if they want that Merciless.
Survivors may be pushed into a specific role during the match and they may do an awesome job at whatever it is, but their emblem score could suffer because they didn't tick off enough checkboxes. For killers, the emblems really need to be updated so that killers' powers are taken into account. Even Trapper, their first killer, gets penalized for using his traps, something that can actually take a lot of skill to implement well. It's ridiculous.
The game is a confused mess. Killers get an overall hook counter, but they don't get to see how many times each individual survivor has been hooked. However, the Devout emblem doesn't really care about hooks, it cares about sacrifices. Make up your mind what you want from your players, BHVR. Getting 8 hooks and no kills can be way more challenging than getting 4 kills, but the emblem system is stupidly rigid with little room for nuance or context.
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The joke is the game is run on spaghetti code and sometimes that really shows.
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