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Better together
Would this perk be OP if it hid generator aura effects and noise notifications such as discordance from the killer? Right now it sucks real bad as without Prove thyself its counter productive to stack on gens and discordance is so common on killer it allows them to pressure multiple survivors at once; this perk could counter this and be unique in the fact that it is the only one that can do so.
Comments
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The merit of Better Together is not necessarily to get other survivors to work with you. The opposite works as well (esp in soloQ): The aura tells the other where someone is working on a gen, so they can deliberately leave you alone and better split up on the gens. And it gives valuable information for when you might have to go to unhook someone. Imagine a situation where someone gets hooked, you and another are working on a gen, and the last one repairs another gen on its own with Better Together. Now you know you or your companion shoul go to unhook, ince the remaining one is clearly occupied. AND if the third one should decide to go to the unhook, the aura will change back to red, so you know they might go unhooking (or being chased). Last but not least, when I played with it some days ago, I found the aura when someone is downed extremely helpful, since it's also gives you intel whether you should go for unhook or not.
TLDR: Better Together has much more utility to it as it may seem. Actually it might be wiser with this perk when the other do not join you, but use the info to better spread out, not lead the killer ot you or use the info in another senseful way.
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Another downside is Better Together being mistaken for Trail of Torment.
This can be countered if you also bring Bond and then gen-tap if you see a survivor scared to approach
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I've been using Better Together since its release and i think that buff would fit better in Technician.
"Right now it sucks real bad as without Prove thyself its counter productive to stack on gens"
Personally, the main reason why i run it is to prevent other survivors from taking the killer to me while they are being chased, needless to say that sometimes they just ignore it...
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Benefits of Better Together:
- Lure people to do gens with you
- Lure people to you if they need healing
- Tell people where to avoid when they're being chased
- Informs people of the generator's location in case you get chased off (they can sneak onto it later)
- Budget Kindred
The key to this perk is making you a beacon to gather under if they need it (like using a map with that beacon add-on), or otherwise provide information to your team and yourself (via kindred effect for the latter). This can actually save a lot of people considerable amount of time wandering the map aimlessly.
In addition, you do not need Prove Thyself to benefit from having multiple people on a generator. Prove Thyself only saves a maximum 6 seconds of repair time when doing a generator together from 0% progress to 100% and only up to 3 seconds if they join half-way. That's okay, but not really significant most of the time.
The real benefit to working with others on a generator are the point bonuses.
- Doing a full generator solo takes 80 seconds, and gives 1,250 points (15.6 points/second).
- Doing a full generator with two people takes 47 seconds and gives 1,250 points + 1,175 co-op points for a total of 2,425 points (51.6 points/second).
You literally get over 3x the points per second doing a generator with someone else, rather than solo. That's pretty worth it in my opinion, and it's why I almost never solo generators anymore unless I need to, or have this perk on to lure my walking point bags to me.
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The problem with grouping on gens is that it's extremely risky. If the killer comes to your gen or has discordance, they can easily keep 2 or 3 survivors pressured. Everyone doing separate gens makes it way harder for the killer. I've seen killers easily win games because people kept stacking on gens. You will get more blood points in the long run by splitting up and actually progressing the game more reliably.
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Unless they're Plague or Legion, they likely won't be able to pressure everyone who was on the generator enough for it to matter.
Most killers will have to commit to one to get a hit/down, while the others scatter to other nearby generators or even come back to the one that was being worked on if the killer is lead away by the one who took their agro. In addition, the other players not being chased will all get boldness (chase/escape/proximity) points without sustaining any significant risk as well as potential altruism (protection/healing) and additional co-op (healing/generator/chase) points.
You could split up and do generators individually to reduce the risk of what's usually going to be a minor interruption, and a well organized split will make the game impossible for most killers, but it definitely won't give you more blood points in the long run. All major forms of BP in 3/4 point categories are through interactions with each other (objectives/altruism), or the killer (boldness/altruism). Splitting generator pressure lowers all forms of those interactions, and therefore points gained. You might get a lump sum from surviving the actual trial, but I'd argue you'd make more points overall by grouping to a degree and sustaining some risk, as opposed to avoiding it - especially if you still survive regardless.
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This. I wish they would give TOT a different color. My teammates never seem to put two and two together when they face PH.
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OK, so what build would you recommend to maximise blood point gain and to benefit a playstyle of sticking with other people? I just find sticking with teammates a lot to be detrimental. But maybe there is a build that will make it more viable? Bear in mind I play solo queue in which your teammates aren't guaranteed to make smart decisions.
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Yeah, the whole teammates aren't smart thing is probably the biggest flaw to perks like Better Together which rely on them to make good use of the perk. Even though I think the potential of the perk is great as is, as mentioned above, people's ignorance to its benefits can often avoid it thus making its purpose invalid. But that's a player-base/match-making problem.
That said, to answer your question of what build I'd recommend to actually maximize blood-point generation and improve co-operative play-styles...
If you want a more passive and safe play-style, I'd recommend my current build:
- Bond
- Kindred
- Open-handed (can be exchanged for inner strength, exhaustion perk, or something else)
- Small Game
With this build, I just prioritize totems early (dull give 71.43 points/sec) until I see someone on a generator with bond and join them on it (51.60 points/sec for one other person; 82.89 points/sec for two others). When someone goes down, I use Kindred to see whether to remain on my gen or to commit to a save - typically I'll commit if I'm sure I'll get the save over someone else OR if the killer is chasing another survivor somewhere. Benefits to safe saves are an instant 1500 points + 200 points for assisting an injured teammate + 500 healing or 700 if co-op healing (31.25 points/sec solo, 87.5 points/sec co-op) + ability to do a nearby generator together afterwards (51.6 - 82.9 points/sec). Since doing a generator solo is 15.6 points/sec, running to instead help heal a hooked survivor and grouping for generators after is clearly superior points-wise.
Typically with this passive playstyle, I'll max objective easily without prove thyself regardless of the game's pacing. I'll also get at least 5k in boldness from totems and general chases (that's 13k points minimum already per game). Anything more in boldness and altruism depends on the killer and my teammates though - if the killer can't hook anyone, it's pretty impossible to max them out.
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If you want a more aggressive play-style, I'd recommend:
- Bond
- We're Gonna Live Forever
- Prove Thyself (can replace with self-care or inner strength)
- Exhaustion Perk (can replace with self-care or inner strength)
Unlike the passive style, you won't be actively hunting totems for boldness points. Instead, you run around and harass the killer for boldness and only stop to do generators or altruistic actions with someone else. You don't need Kindred here because you'll always be going for save attempts. Prove thyself makes it so doing a gen with another person gives 76.6 points/sec, or 132.9 points/sec with two other people. Meaning you'll reach your 8k max blood-points for objective in roughly 1 or 1.5 minutes of doing generators with someone else. Co-operative healing also increases to 112.5 points/sec since prove thyself affects co-op actions in other categories.
Since you generate so many bonus co-operative points, you have a lot more freedom to do whatever else you want on the map. This play-style, especially if you have self-healing, also encourages body blocking chases (which you'll find with bond) for protection, distraction, and WGLF points. Self-healing perks also give super rare survival points, albeit not many (min 9.3 points/sec for self-care, and 37.5 points/sec for inner strength). Self-care has the benefit of giving skill-checks though, so if you can hit greats reliably you'll often get 600 per heal for 18 points/sec. The points/sec are low, but if you can hit at least one great skill check it's still better than doing a generator solo at 15 points/sec, and survival category points are so rare that they're arguably worth more.
Note that I said prove thyself can be replaced for a healing perk. That's because once you really get efficient with weaving co-op gen time while playing, you'll find you often reach near the cap for objective points even without it.
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Thank you for taking the time to reply with this, I appreciate it. Im already an avid fan of small game so will give that build a try.
I'm curious what you think of the perk "leader" since I think it can be fairly efficient when sticking with teammates and using it with bond.
The current build I've been experimenting with is :
Bond, Visionary, Open handed, Leader. Ive been swapping out open handed for Borrowed time when I'm in a SWF. I used to only use the meta perks all the time, but I've been having fun playing with aura teammate builds.
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I've thought about leader quite a bit in the past - I want to like it, but can't bring myself to.
No one really sabotages anymore (especially not when I'm around), and I tend to claim all totems, unhooks, and chests as my own because of their amazing point/sec values. In that case, it's literally only useful for speeding up heals and unhooks on myself and maaaybe letting someone open a gate faster. Problem with that is if I'm ever in a position where unhook speed matters, I'm probably gonna be camped/tunneled anyway. If I'm in a situation where heal speed matters, it's probably because I positioned poorly (healing at hook) which I don't let happen usually. And exit gates are also something I typically like to claim for points over my teammate unless capped, so even if we get to end-game I probably won't use it there either.
As it stands, leader just isn't worth it to me because it just encourages people to take points that I want away from me. If they ever buff leader so that it gives you the same amount of points received by users affected by the buff, then I'll consider it - till then, it's unlikely I'll ever use it.
That said, all of what I'm saying only matters from a point-hoarding play style (which I love and play for). If you just want to be supportive, or have another in-game goal then it could work for you.
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The build sounds fun overall though, I love information perks so that's up my alley.
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With that build i use, you could swap out Leader for Better together. Because you have Visionary, it might help teammates inside indoor maps to find gens. I find this is very useful in solo queue, it gets people to do gens who would otherwise just stroll around the map doing nothing.
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Another good perk that combos well with Better together is Yun Jin's new perk "self preservation". It's good if you are worried about people sandbagging you on the generator.
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