Tunneling and face camping in every single game
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Oh. I see. It was disbalanced on the other side, then.
Imo they should give it another try and add some rules that denies exploding those benefits.
Another possible option I think it could be similar to how the perk "friendship" works, but with the killer.
If killer stays on less than a "X" metters radius from a hooked guy, and there is NO PRESSENCE of survivors on the same radius, hook progression runs slowly.
The only problem I see is that this mechanic wouldn't affect in the same way to a Nurse or a hag, than to a walking killer like Myers or trapper. But anyway, tunneling and camping would be punished in terms of gameplay. (I'm talking about Early game. On late game everything should be allowed).
Other option is to give a "reward" to the killer to leave camping zone. Bloodpoints? Show him a random aura reveal of a survivor or a started gen? Idk.
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"I have never seen a Wraith who doesn't just cloak a few paces from the hook."
It's really difficult to take the rest of this seriously when you use hyperbole this bad. I see Wraiths do what you're talking about maybe 1 in 5 games, and I'm in red ranks.
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Was it? :) I recall you have been complaining about the game since your first appearance here and long before DS got tweaked. In fact, I'm willing to bet I could find a post from you (probably several) where you complain about the old DS too. Give it a rest.
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I think you don't know the definition of tunneling. Tunneling is when the killer only goes for one person and throws the game to do it. It doesn't necessarily mean off hook. For example, if you get a 5 gen run, the killer tunneled you. However, if the killer goes for any survivor after he sees you, but before you die, it's not tunneling. However, I do see what you mean and I like the idea. I don't know about the first one for the same reason you don't. As a nurse main, this wouldn't do anything to nurse whatsoever. I like the reward idea. There should also be a reward for not doing gens quickly, but still getting out. It would help with the grind while simultaneously making every game more fun. There still needs to be penalties for these things though, because some don't care about blood points. I just don't know what the penalty would be for anything. Everything I can think of is abusable.
Also, thank you for not using chase as the indicator to stop pausing the timer. Because a lot of people do that without realizing that a good survivor can get chased without the game recognizing it.
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-If you unhook in front of me, I am downing the unhooked and probably you, too.
-If you unhook and don't protect the unhooked they're going back on a hook ASAP.
-If you circle around a hook being 'stealthy' i'm not leaving.
-If you teabag me, i'm killing you at all costs.
-If you heal in front of me during a chase, i'm killing you at all costs.
-If I suspect you are SWF, I am killing you at all costs.
tl;dr version - if you make a punishable mistake I will punish you for it. Don't screw up.
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Something I have been curious about since starting this game is tunneling and what it is actually defined as.
I have always thought it is fully ignoring more logical choices to hunt down and eliminate one particular survivor. Which of course sucks for that survivor.
However people seem to throw it around anytime a killer takes down the injured player after an unhook. To me that isn't tunneling to the same level of having tunnel vision. If my teammate unhooks me unsafely and the killer is coming back in and chooses me, the injured one, to chase rather than my healthy teammate then I understand that and if anyone is to blame it's the teammate for the bad unhook.
When playing killer I go for the one doing the unhooking most of the time because I want to get another survivor a hook state, but sometimes if they both bolt in different directions I don't really see any issue with chasing the injured instead of the healthy, you can quickly re-hook them and probably still have a chance to find the other. Is this really considered tunneling? Or is it just thrown around all the time?
I get that it's less fun for that survivor, I don't like it when it happens to me, but it's not the same as having true tunnel vision by ignoring other better options to just get rid of one player is it?
Face-camping I fully understand is just awful play, ruins the game for one player but the others should surely capitalize and get the gens done.
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nerf swf then if you want tunneling and camping nerfed.
tunneling and camping is the only way to punish altruistic SWFs
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sure
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To follow up my own experiences I noted earlier in the thread, I logged in another 6 hours+ yesterday afternoon/last night as survivor, one session as part of a 3-person SWF, the other as part of my regular 4-person SWF. In all my matches, there was one person who was face-camped (a teammate, not myself) -- against a Myers. We got the teammate off the hook right before they died, but the Myers re-downed them and finished them off (no DS for them). Meanwhile, it was still a 3-person escape. The member of our group who got facecamped took it in stride, simply asking "What did I do?", but they were happy the rest of us had a ridiculously easy escape.
We ran into a few killers who returned to the hook after an unhook, but almost none of them were doing what I would have defined as tunneling (maybe one or two instances). If anything, there were games where the killer specifically avoided the easier target off the hook to go after the rescuer, so I'd argue I saw more of that than anything. The huge majority of rescues were uncontested, with the majority of those featuring healing directly under the hook because the killer was occupied in a chase someplace else.
So again, if it's "every" game that someone is tunneling and face-camping you, you're either the unluckiest player in the game, or there's some hyperbole in effect.
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Ah yes; yet more 'Punish people for playing in a way I don't like' or 'Punish people for playing optimally.'
Because only Survivors can do optimal plays, amIrite?
Killers are not allowed to do the following:
- Hit an unhooked Survivor. This is tunneling, even if the Survivor bodyblocks you, or just happens to accidentally run into you.
- Hit a wounded Survivor. This is also tunneling.
- Leave a Survivor on the ground. This is slugging, even if you know someone is nearby waiting to flashlight or pallet save. Or if you know they have D. Strike.
- Stay near a hook. This is camping, even if you know, or suspect, Survivors are waiting nearby to unhook their friend.
- Camp in the Endgame Collapse. This is also 'toxic camping', or sometime called 'being a sweat'. Survivors opened the gate; you are expected to let them escape.
- Return to an unhook, even if Survivors are healing under it. This is both camping AND tunneling.
- 3 Gen. If Survivors 3 Gen; it is Killer's fault. They are expected to stop patrolling & give up the gens to Survivors.
- Use certain powers. If you use certain Killer's powers, you are toxic. I had this happen as Hag, where I was called a 'camper' because the idiots never stopped sprinting everywhere. 4th player DC'd and said 'Campers don't deserve a 4K'.
That's all these threads are; Survivors, salty over losing, blame 'toxic players' and 'cheap tactics' and then crusade to get whatever killed them removed. All so they can have easier matches.
And yes; it works in reverse; Killers blaming 'flashlight clicking', 'twerking', and 'genrushing'. Yes, gen speeds are too slow, which leads directly to camping to secure a kill, but 'genrushing' is Survivors just doing their goal; working on gens to escape.
The same as 'camping', 'slugging', and 'tunneling' are all ways the Killer tries to win. But I'm sure some Survivor main will read this and swear up & down that gen speeds are fine, and Killer tactics are 'unfun' and need to be removed 'for the health of the game'. Because all they want are fast, easy wins.
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Honestly there’s no point arguing about tunnelling and camping on these forums. The people who don’t see it don’t play enough survivor to make that judgement cuz everyone I know has seen a HUGE increase in it. It is about 50% of games at least.- and I mean hard camping or tunnelling
I keep trying to make the point it doesn’t matter if it’s a ‘valid strategy’ or not! The argument is that it’s so unhealthy for the game because the killer does nothing, at least 1 survivor does nothing and on soloQ usually 2-3 survivors get to do nothing.
It means there’s no chases, no mind games, no interactions - basically no game. - keep arguing ‘it’s a valid strategy’ and validating it and people will stop playing the game because it’s boring. - THIS is what should concern players on both sides if they want the game to survive!
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I liked your message. Camping and tunneling is bad for the game. Some people say that is neccessary for winning.
But this people forget that players play the game because is Funny and exciting. Winning the game will make you have more fun and joy? Sure.
But if people just had fun winning at games, most popular game mode would be "player vs IA". 100% win rate ez pz.
As a survivor I like to have a close match, with chases, rescues, heal players, mind games, totems, a bit of gens....
But I don't enjoy being 90% of my time standing on a hook. Or spamming M1 on a gen because a Bubba is camping a first hook. And before someone talk again about the 3 gen, or the gens completed.... Yes. I'm only talking about EARLY Game.
Now some killer will talk about optimal plays and about how you can prevent tunnel with DS, TB, kindred and unbreakable. I'll just say that these strategies are not good for killing survivors. Are also good for killing the joy of the game. Gen rush has the same effect btw. And if people stop having fun, they'll just move to another game. .
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Ignoring the fact that I called it about someone claiming removing Killer agency is 'for the health of the game', let's look at the 'solutions' to camping:
Make the hook teleport away.
Let's imagine you chased someone, and 2-3 gens popped in that first chase. You now hook that person...and the hook teleports across the map. Now, Survivors are spread out, so it's impossible for the hook to appear far away from the Killer AND every Survivor. So it spawns near a Survivor. They're unhooked in the space of 10 seconds, and both working on a gen together. Before the Killer can even walk across the map.
There goes any gen pressure from having a hooked Survivor. Or, even worse; the unhook came as final gen popped. Or, even WORSE; this garbage idea happens in Endgame Collapse, denying the Killer even 1 Kill. Because he can't stay near the one Survivor he caught, when he as no other goal except 'Get a kill' at this point. Gens are done, gate is open. He got a down, and the hook sods off.
Garbage idea.
A 'No Killer Zone' Around the Hook.
Ignoring that this zone would cut off certain L-Walls and Jungle Gyms, giving Survivors infinite loops if a hooked Survivor were in such a place, it would also allow Survivors to sit under a hooked Survivor a heal before unhooking them.
But the Zone goes away if a Survivor is near the hook! Ok, then Killers would just camp outside the zone, and enter the moment Survivors went for an unhook. Still 'camping'.
Also a trash idea.
Make the Killer lose BP!
If this is an idea anyone agrees with; their whole reasoning behind 'the health of the game' is a bald-faced lie.
On top of that; Survivors would circle the hook to force BP drain.
Trash idea.
Cap the Killer's emblems if he stays near the hook!
See 'Lose BP' above.
Also a trash idea.
Slow the Struggle Meter when a Killer is nearby.
Survivors already abused this one, but here we go again. A Survivor would circle the hook, forcing a slowed Struggle Meter.
And if it turned off 'if a Survivor is nearby', they would just stay 50 meters out, in opposite directions. This would force the Killer to either camp the hook (because 2 Survivors are there), or make him walk away, knowingly giving up an unhook. Because Survivors are too far away to start a chase. And 1 is doing gens while 2 camp outside the chase radius.
Trash idea.
See why camping is allowed? Because every idea would be abuseable or outright spitefully bad, and all would be even worse for the 'health of the game'.
You can tell by how the game is still going strong after 5 years with 'campers' and 'tunnelers'. Clearly an accepted tactic meant to help Killers do their goal is not going to kill the game.
All Survivors who whine and snivel about 'camping' want is easy unhooks and forced plays meant to shackle Killers into sub-optimal play styles so they can win easy. When they say 'It's for the health of the game', what they mean is 'I don't want to play if I can't win every time. Please remove Killer agency'.
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And even after this someone will still try telling you that it is unhealthy for the game.
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So you’d argue that if the game actually required you to hook and camp let’s say - do you really think the game would stay alive?
I don’t think it would… if it was 75-90% of my games where all I could do was do gens or be the one camped on the hook i wouldn’t play it. Even with how it’s got to now at around 50% of games being played like this I’m playing around half the number of hours in a day I used to because it’s just so boring. I know I’m not alone in this!
Again, you’re missing my point, for whatever reason tunnelling and camping is becoming the GO TO strategy and it’s making it extremely boring as a game. Keep validating it and it’s health for the game and soon the game won’t be viable anymore
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Camping and tunneling have always been in game and the only people I see leaving are killer players because they keep getting spit on by both the community and the devs.
So I don't care about what fantasies you have of camping being something recent and you survivor players gonna do something about it real soon, because you will do nothing but cry.
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You're missing my point; Camping has been in the game since day one, nearly 5 years ago. So it's not some magical, recent development that's going to kill the game.
And given gen speeds, and the need to camp to slow down said gen speeds (A long Survivor, with no items or help, without getting any skillchecks, can do all 5 gens in 6.66 minutes.), punishing a legitimate tactic with any sort of abuseable BS is what will kill the game.
Killers will stop playing the second you remove their choice to camp or hunt, or add some trash mechanic for Survivors to abuse.
But keep going off about how a tactic that has existed for 5 years will suddenly cause every Survivor player to quit, even though it's only a vocal minority whining about wanting changes for EZ wins.
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That's the reason you think there are less killers?
Honestly, I don't know what the reason is. I think playing survivor is more fun as you can cooperate with other people or play with your friends. It's just a vague oppinion.
I have wondered if a game with 2 killers could be possible 🤔.
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I pretty much never get tunnelled or face camped. Sure if a team mate unhooks me in front of the killer, they’ll down me again, but that’s to be expected and is not tunnelling.
I’ve honestly only been face camped a handful of times in the last 500 or so hours of gameplay.
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Exactly, that's not tunneling and if I blame anyone it's my teammate doing the unsafe unhook. People throw tunneling out for anytime the killer re-hooks them quickly, even if they played badly.
Camping is rubbish in my opinion, you are just gifting loads of time to the other survivors to do gens.
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Death on first hook by a facecamper tunneler wraith. 2nd minute of the match and first chase completed by killer.
He is playing according to the rules, so his behaviour is ok??? Is this good for the game???
P.D: sorry for the quality. I don´t record any game. Just this part with a mobile.
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I really doubt it's happening every single game. I can't think of a single game I had last night where the killer was tunneling or camping.
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if that happened balancing would be quite an issue.
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It´s not happening all games of course. This was the summun of the tryharders.
But I have to say hard tunneling and camper is happening in 20% of my games.
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My opinion the majority of killers who face camp are newbs. Most of the survivors they are facing are also newbs. At higher ranks you hardly every see a face camper because survivors know to do gens and get out. If face camping is such a massive problem for newer players than the solution is they need to stop falling for it. Face camping only works if you stop doing gens or hook rush the killer. If you stop making it a viable strategy than that killer will eventually learn "This isnt working. I better try something else"
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I absolutely love all the killer mains here. I was like them too. Now I am playing survivor too and I can't help but tell them one thing: Go and main survivor for a week. Then, tell me if camping and tunneling are ok. Dude, I don't give a ######### about dying. It's absolutely ok. What I hate is when I play it nicely, but the killer just face camps me and tunnels because... Because. Yes, the killer has to kill, but while getting gen rushed isn't fun, neither is being camped. I would love to have a fair game in which the killer did good and we both made sure the game is fun. But no, most of the time I get face camped because why not.
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This killer wasn´t a newbie. He was rank 6. Our team were´nt newbies neither.
As I was on hook they popped 2 gens. While one compannion tried to rescue but couldn´t due to the camping.
2 gens for 1 death and 2 wounded survivors. Totally worth for the killer.
There was only 1 escape and was a hatch.
If solo q had some kind of information or communication this wouldn´t have gone like this. BUFF SOLO Q
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EvErY siNgLE gAmE
Sure, I play solo survivor 70% of the time, the rest is killer both in red rank, while hard tunneling and camping is a thing, it happens maybe in 25% of my games.
Playing survivor is fun even if you die, playing killer is a chore even if you 4K, honestly I play killer mainly for more BP
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SURVIVORS DESERVE IT UNTIL THEY FIX THIS GAME FOR BEING SURVIVOR SIDED KILLERS CAN'T DO OTHERWISE
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