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Borrowed Time needs a very simple tweak... because it breaks the game.
Just show the buff aura immediately... Don't have it wait until the Survivor gets hit...
As it is right now, it's basically a 5th Perk, to put it as shortly as possible.
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As it is right now, you LEARN that somebody has it by hitting a Survivor and then they glow white... but you're now stuck in place on attack cooldown animation. And that's a huge loss. That's an escaped Survivor, you lost 'em.
And not only that, but you have this on potentially 3 more Survivors, too.
But maybe not!
And that's the REAL kicker.
That's why it's a 5th Perk. The only way to counterplay it is to assume they have it. You can't afford to swing at them in order to learn. But, my freaking god, it's TWELVE SECONDS!! I have to ride their buttcheeks for TWELVE SECONDS, just based on the assumption that they are buffed by their rescuer.
But maybe they AREN'T! Maybe the rescuer does NOT have Borrowed Time! But since I have to respect it anyway, then they basically DO have it, now, don't they?
And then for the ultimate "mind games," if you end up testing it and learn that they DO have Borrowed Time... now you kind of assume EVERYONE will have it. But, again, maybe not! Maybe only that ONE guy has it, and unhooked a Surv, and you smacked 'em. And maybe that was going to be the only time anyone was ever Enduranced all game. But, alas, you spent the rest of the game respecting a non-existent buff for TWELVE SECONDS each time just because you really cannot afford not to.
....
UGH. It's just pure misery.
Is this ever talked about??? It seems like a very obvious & glaring issue, to me.
Comments
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Yes, this is DS all over again. Killers losing because they respected a perk that wasn't even there.
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What was/is DS?
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*revert the timer neft on it, because right now most killers can circumvent it very easily.
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Just go after the unhooker (rescuer), if you can’t find them then the rescued should at least have a head start before they’re tunneled. I understand the frustration of bodyblocking with bt but if the person recently hooked is actively trying to escape the bt is warranted.
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For some it's damn near impossible
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DS = Decisive strike. It used to be a really strong perk that allowed survivors to escape the killers grasp by succeeding a skill check when being picked up by the killer for 60 seconds after being unhooked. It was ridiculously strong but it got nerfed, so now it is disabled when performing certain actions.
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In those 12 seconds, a survivor can run up to a maximum of 48 meters therefore making it to almost any safe tile in the map if they have good pathing. So even if you count the seconds the survivor will most likely put a good deal of structures in between you and them.
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All they need to do is get rid of collision for the unhooked survivor and revert it back to 15 seconds
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*looks at map design*
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Found the Survivor player.
You'd probably say the same thing if it lasted 100 seconds.
"You can't count to 100?..."
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You can always tell who has BT because they run straight to you while injured, just ignore them or wait out BT and tunnel them out of the game for not pissing off.
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I mean, Borrowed Time (BT) was created as a tool specifically designed to help counteract tunneling.
You can argue that tunneling is fine, part of the game, and necessary to a degree and I won't disagree with that. But survivors are people too, and they log in to be your opponents because they want to play the game. Being downed immediately after being unhooked is akin to saying "I've decided you don't get to play the game" and that by itself would be a miserable experience for them.
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I also see a lot of comparisons of BT to DS, but they're nothing alike.
DS started as the most bullshit perk in existence, giving EVERYONE a free 5 second stun when picked up whenever they wanted it. This original design was the biggest middle finger to killers everywhere, as it completely negated their downs and denied them their first hook vs every survivor. It was basically punishment for doing well.
DS then evolved through multiple stages until the most recent, where it was only active for one minute after unhooking. Prior to the nerf, the issue surrounding this was that it was literally a full minute of immunity vs the killer. They could heal, do objectives, or do whatever else they wanted without consequence. The nerf turned into a healthier perk where it specifically counters tunneling, and disabled that free-roam period of immunity after each unhook.
BT in comparison is 12 seconds long, providing only enough time for the survivor to struggle for their lives if they do get tunneled. BT's sole existence is providing that 12 second period of game-play after being idle on the hook so that they can still do something. It does not deny a killer of any significant efforts like the original DS, nor provide a significant period of immunity that the recent form of DS did. It even still rewards killers with a mend status effect, and the opportunity to trade killers on the rescuer.
BT was created to encourage killers to target others and allow the recipient time to play - and it's doing its job either passively through fear or actively through its effects.
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I really don't have a problem with it.
I want a change, but not this one.
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12 seconds allows Survivors to run 48 meters.
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12 seconds allows the killer to run 55.2 meters.
If the killers is so adamant to tunnel them down, they still can.
You can argue that 48 meters is enough to get to a strong tile-set, and you're not wrong. That's part of the whole concept of the perk in giving the receiving survivor a chance to play the game again after having been removed from it from however long they were on the hook.
I still don't see the issue with this.
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Maybe the fact that it can guarantee a free escape during end game collapse?
But in that scenario, you have nothing to do but camp the hook and therefore you should be able to trade kills unless you misplay by hitting the savior before the unhook, and again after.
23 -
Then hit the unhooker instead
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this is bait right? killer main mostly here who plays rank 1 solo survivor as well. Good killers are not effected by bt, it is no where near an issue like noed or keys. it is a perk to deter scummy play by killers mostly and its been kind of nerfed so that abuse is punished by good killers. Theres a learning curve and prediction involved but that does not make the perk op. It means you have to learn to play around it
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This is essentially the NOED problem survivors have.
I get the whole "whataboutism" but stuff people keep repeating but if you think about it should we really be worried about solving this? The problem is solved by building up momentum early or dealing with the unhooker so it's a trade.
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Don't tunnel then...? The perk is specifically there to counter your playstyle, so you need to go for the survivor that's unhooking instead. It's not rocket science.
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How about just don't attack the unhooked?
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Listen, your post isn't innately bad here. You're right, as much as I cannot STAND the Survivor community in general, they ARE people too, and players too, AND they do need to be good adversaries or being Killer isn't fun.
HOWEVER, I want to say that I feel like you miss my point here. I understand why BT exists, and I even LIKE that it exists... ... on paper...
But its execution is miserable.
How does the buff being visible NOT have BT still accomplish the same exact thing??? The unhooked player still has TWELVE entire seconds of run time. That's several eternities, and there isn't a hook in the game that's more than 12 seconds away from the nearest Hitler's Funhouse of Pallets and Windows.
I am very and quite simply saying... I do not think Survivors should have a 5th Perk slot.
From the sounds of things, Survivors seem to want to keep their 5th Perk slot, and have no interest in discussing it further...
... To nobody's surprise, really...
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Sorry, but you're not a Killer main. You might have Killer stats, but you're a Survivor Brain.
Attacking a player that's injured instead of a player that's healthy is not, in any remotely possible way, "scummy".
You definitely exposed yourself with that remark, my dude...
(No pun intended.)
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Stop tunneling the survivor who just got unhooked then. It isn't hard. It is not a "5th perk slot". And even if it were? It's a 5th perk slot for the killer when the Claudette on my team is self caring in the corner of the map when the killer has sloppy butcher. There are perks that hurt both sides. Don't be entitled.
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5Head
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The survivor with BT: -laughs in body block-
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I mean, I get it. If it's endgame, then you have no choice but to swing your weapon and get points.
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Whether flawed or not, it's the inherent design of the perk system that they remain anonymous until triggered or the game concludes for the most part. In this regard it's actually a two-way street.
Examples that come to mind are totem perks in particular.
Like BT, some totem perks (particularly Devour Hope and Haunted Grounds) give no indication that they're present until they've been triggered. The effects are equally devastating in that they can give a free down just as easily as BT can deny one.
Even if totem perks aren't up your alley for comparison, similar examples can be derived from Starstruck, Bamboozle, BBQ, Blood Warden, and many others. All of which have potentially lethal effects, and therefore require consideration before action is taken even the threat isn't real.
Part of the game, as it's currently designed anyway, is weighing the existence of such threats on both sides to the potential benefits of ignoring them. That exists for both sides, in a way gives both killer and survivor multiple hidden perk slots.
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Ad much as tunnelling is a valid tactic and part of the game we all know it isn't fun for a lot of people and survivors need to have counters to it.
If they didn't a lot of people just would stop playing because without perks like bt and ds playing survivor would be pretty bad in all honesty.
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Move around them & don't blow your load early
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I was saying that to dissuade the "running for their lives" part of your statement.
BT pretty much guarantees you make it to a good tile.
I have issues with BT, but I've already been clear on them in the past.
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BT is intentionally a deterrent to discourage camping even when not in play because camping is not a fun play style
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Erm.. thats the point of the perk. It doesn't need a change.
Go after the guy that unhooked or count to 12 if you really really want to tunnel someone out of the game with no chance of playing.
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I mean, the 'not in play' part doesn't work on a camper, since they can just down the unhooker while they're unhooking and then go for the unhooked. If they have BT, it's a hook trade. If they don't, free second kill.
But yeah, the only issue I have with BT is the bodyblocking since I hate going for a freshly unhooked target if there's any other option.
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It isn’t a fifth perk. How is it a fifth perk? If it’s a fifth perk then it’s at the expense of another player only having 3. It’s fair.
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Did you read anything at all anywhere ever at any point in time in this thread????????
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And you really...
... What?...
I really didn't feel like it was this complicated. And I'm trying to not make a generalizing bash at Survivor intelligence right now...
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BT is fine, except for the fact that it promotes uninteresting and unintelligent gameplay.
Get used to it.
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So you have to play as if everybody has it… so what? As a survivor I have to play as if every killer is using BBQ. What’s the difference?
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What's that, mindlessly rushing a hook for the rescue because you now have literally no reason not to? No strategy to engage in, just Leeroy in there, and know that Mama Perkins got your back?
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Most of the people who are complaining about the BT change abused the fact that old BT could be cheesed by stealth Killers and certain perks.
New BT is mostly good. I'd make it time and distance based, but that's just me.
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Well...... They probably are, to farm BP, lmao.
Really though - yeah, well, I AGREE. Any Killer perks that translate to the same obnoxiousness of having to respect it, which totally warps your gameplay, even though they may NOT have it (Nurse's Call comes to mind, and I wouldn't say many other Killer perks can compare to what BT does) could also do with a change.
Or, perhaps something big that would change everything. Perhaps, quite simply, you can know everyone's perks before/during the game. I HONESTLY do not think that would be bad for the game. Either neutral or good. I can only imagine some silly counterarguments for it. But no good ones. So if you got any, I wanna hear it!
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The only thing I have to say about that I idea is that its a bit like trying to play poker by showing all of your cards first. A lot of the fun is derived from not knowing what the other players are holding. And yeah a lot of the annoyances, too. But without the element of surprise this game would get stale reeeallly quick.
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That's not the issue with BT. I don't have much trouble telling if someone has BT. The problem is that the unhooked survivor can bodyblock for the would-be farmer and prevent an exchange, if not an outright snowball.
BT shouldnt give the endurance effect. It should make survivors lose all collision and deactivate a la DS, but naturally with a much shorter timer.
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I have a question to your comment? How is trying to hit the unhooker during egc before and during/after unhook a misplay or rather what would the correct play be? Are you suggesting going for a grab, which are broken since dedicated server? Or is there a strategy I can't think of right now?
Honest question. no sarcasm, irony or anything intented.
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Sorry, good catch. I punctuated that horribly and the wording itself can easily be read to mean the opposite of my intentions funny enough.
It should read:
"You should be able to trade kills unless you misplay, by hitting the savior before the unhook"
With the intention being to communicate that you can trade kills by hitting the unhooker before and after they hook, thanks to the animation delay. That is the proper play, unless the killer messes it up.
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Thanks for the answer. The original wording got me really confused and wondering if there is another trick is simply didn't know 😅
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How is that different from survivors doing pull hexes to prevent noed, even if the killer doesn´t have it?
Should we show dragon grip on a gen, too? Or devour hope as soon as it gets his first token?
BT is an anti-tunnel-perk. Its designed to discourage tunneling, yes, even if the survior doesnt have it, just like noed is there to make survivors do totems even if the killer doesnt have it.
Yes, a lot of survivors ignore totems, but often they are punished by it. And the same is true for bt and killers.
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Maybe don't make "you disagree with me, so you're not a real killer main!" posts and realize that neither killer mains or survivor mains are hive minds that are supposed to agree on every single detail?
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Yeahhhhhh completely destroy perk like devour hope, and haunted ground, since if people know they're in play they will either destroy totem early or not destroy them. Yours it's a really bad idea.
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It would just make games kind of boring. Figuring out the cards your opponent holds is a fun part of the game, and there are a lot of perks that require some element of surprise in order to work well - Dark Devotion, Dragon’s Grip, NOED, for example.
If the killer knew whether every survivor had DS or not they could either tunnel to their heart’s content or slug with no fear. You’d never have to consider whether a survivor had Dead Hard or Unbreakable or Soul Guard or whatever. Survivors would never have to worry about Blood Warden or BBQ. Hexes would be totally useless.
It would just make the game way easier which would be good for new players, but would make games more stale for people who’ve been playing for a while. I love getting caught off guard by a perk I didn’t expect, and I love it even more when I figure out the perks the other side is running through reasoning and observation, rather than having the information handed to me.
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