Why people hate Spirit while there is Nurse?
"Spirit has no counterplay"
"Easy 4k"
WTF?
Man, Nurse ignores EVERYTHING, literally everything that there's in the game. She can spam 2 teleports every ######### 6 seconds.
She doesn't need perks nor addons, she can traverse the map, floors, pallets, windows, entire structures. She can cancel the second blink, she can lessen the distance looking to the floor, she can see 360º while blinking, she can do everything.
"But at least I have information of what she is doing"
Bullshit. You don't and it doesn't matter cause she has every single counterplay to your jukes.
The only thing you can do is break line of sight (then have 0 information of what she is doing) and PRAY that she "predicts" wrongly. But again, she have TWO blinks, can use the first to have sight of you and use the second to hit you.
0 counterplay.
But of course, people don't complain because there's only a dozen of Nurse players, the rest stops learning after so many toxicity that they are exposed by survivors.
Comments
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You can cancel second blink?
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If you don't use it, you can cancel it
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Nurse is rewarding hard gameplay. Spirit is easy 4k.so Spirit needs nerf first.
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So what you're saying is that I can go into fatigue...? well duh.
That's not a cancel, that's just going into the regular animation from the first blink.
Cancel would be charging the second blink, and attacking instead.
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I don't get it either, I hate playing against nurse and I don't really mind spirit. But also on my servers theres a ton of nurses in red ranks, while spirit game for me is once in a blue moon.
People complain about things they hate and that are happening to them often I guess
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In theory it's not a cancel, in the practice it does. You can hold the second blink for as long as you want and you still will be able to blink anywhere in a range of 12m, it all depends of the angle of nurse's hand.
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Both killers have very little counterplay. The difference is, Nurse is stupid buggy, at least requires a modicum of practice, and typically in the servers I play in I don't see them very often. Nurse needs changes, (I would prefer they fix her, first) but there is no way to balance Nurse other than completely changing her. She is designed to break the game, because it was a different game when she was introduced.
Spirit on the other hand, can win a match just as easily as Nurse with a fourth of the effort. Her power is designed to have no counterplay, other than guesswork. The Spirit has to do very little to get done with her power, and even less with her "mindgames." She literally doesn't give the survivors any kind of chance to counter. They just have to guess.
Just because one bullshit thing exists doesn't mean people can't complain about other bullshit things.
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"Easy" is a subjective therm.
I've seen people spent 1 week playing Nurse and destroying competitive matches :)
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No. You have a very limited time to hold it.
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I hate both but at least nurse requires more effort to play and has some form of feedback on her power
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Nurse has a bigger learning curve. She's still pretty easy once you put in ten hours, but we're not supposed to say that so that people keep thinking she's super hard and don't play her.
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Nurse is different than spirit because you can atleast do something against Nurse, unlike if the spirit bought a pair of earbuds before entering that game
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Because while nurse requires hard skill and gets punished for mistakes after using the power, spirit is the complete opposite plus survivors cant see the spirit coming
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Yes.
Bigger learning curve because she is 100% power usage due to her weaker walking speed.
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Nurse has clear tells and gives survivor feedback based on everything she is doing. You hear and see her charge her blink and for how long, You can see her blink and how fast she blinks to the location etc. That's why she is less frustrating to face. You see what she is doing. How she is doing it. etc.
You still feel more in control against her and that's why survivor find her less annoying.
And you can do more against Nurse then lose LoS. She has counterplay. Just chases have different rules for her. But that makes her a game changer. She also doesn't ignore all game mechanics. And Nurses don't spam their blinks. It's their main mechanic for traversing the map.
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Because when you go down to a Nurse, you typically think "This killer is pretty good." Because it's understood that Nurse is a very hard killer to learn and actually get strong with. But when you go down to a spirit who's just come out of phase, it feels like there wasn't anything you could've realistically done to stop it. It's just like "Well I guess I should've known exactly where she was and what she was doing without any way to know where she was or what she was doing. I guess I need to get more gooder at the game."
And I don't know about you, but running around, changing your movement, breaking LOS and just generally playing differently than you would any other killer, is a lot more fun than just walking so as to not leave scratch marks, and all of a sudden going down to a spirit who just came out of phase, before you could even register what's happening.
It's well known that the Nurse is a very hard killer to really get good with. But that's not the case with Spirit. You can play spirit without even using a headset, and just using speakers to listen to the game, and you can still easily stomp survivors. A headset just makes it even easier than it should be, and if you have stridor the survivors really won't be able to do anything.
And Nurse does have counterplay actually. Breaking line of sight is the best thing you can do against Nurse. When the nurse has seen you, it will instantly become much harder for you to survive because of how her power works. And likewise, when the nurse loses sight of you, it instantly becomes harder for her to catch you, because she has to play a guessing game: which way will the survivor go next? And if she picks wrong, you'll get away and she'll get nothing.
Here's how it goes: you go around a corner and instantly stop so you can see the nurse behind you but she can't see you, check if she's started charging her blinks, and if she has, wait a bit, and run the opposite direction from the way you turned. 8/10 times she won't get a hit on you there. Then later, change it up so that she doesn't get use to anything and your movement remains unpredictable.
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Los blockers is the best counterplay nurse has and it’s a reliable and a test to see how good the nurse player is. That’s why indoor maps besides midwich sucks for her, she can’t keep a good sight on the survivor and pretty much has to guess where they go. There’s also double backing and dead hard. Spirit just puts on her headphones and not much you can go. If you’re injured you’re screwed and it’s just really boring. Nurse is really fun to face imo
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Nurse had her nerf and people are aware there's nothing can really be done with her considering when she was created. And I think it's a respect thing considering Nurse's skill cap compared to Spirit's. And at least from personal experience I've done better against a Nurse then Spirit.
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I think the OP's point is more that Nurse is very rarely complained about even though she is stronger then Spirit and has less counter play then Spirit. For example, if you drop a god pallet against a Spirit, then she has to break it. They could be the best Spirit player on planet earth but they can't ignore everything the Survivors have, just most of what they have. However, Nurse doesn't give a damn about some silly little 'god pallet'. Indeed, a good Nurse can essentially just ignore pallets entirely. Maybe I'm weird here but personally, I don't think that a Killer being able to negate literally EVERY defence the other side has is healthy for the game. Not only does it make for boring gameplay, but it also makes for very imbalanced gameplay. A bad Nurse is really fun to face but a good Nurse? Absolute snooze-fest. It doesn't and shouldn't matter that Nurse is rarely played. I agree with you though. If they leave her as is, then she'll continue to stomp on literally everyone because of her inherent lack of counter play, or they nerf her and she ends up being gutted. Nurse can never and will never be balanced in her current state and as such, she must be reworked entirely.
You're right, people are totally entitled to complain about Spirit, I do myself. However, from what I've seen, the anger is disproportionately focused on Spirit. Spirit is hated beyond measure yet whenever Nurse comes up, she is typically excused of her lack of counter play because she's 'hard to play'. Spirit is despised and Nurse is just given a free pass from this hate, even in spite of her obvious lack of counter play.
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Because half of the nurses are not good and because spirit is easy to use, specially with good addons.
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nurse has a big learning curve unlike spirit thats basicly have good headphones and stridor
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Two reasons. First is that nurse takes a lot more practice than spirit so if one kicks your ass it’s not just a case of the killer having a good headset. Second is that a good nurse is rather rare so games where you get multiple nurses in a row almost never happen where spirit is commonplace at red ranks.
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That's a fair argument. I can understand where that argument is coming from, and I can agree with you. I think Nurse is unhealthy for the game. On the killer side, she's incredibly frustrating to play because of her bugs. On the Survivor side, a good one will stomp your team without even trying and a bad one is basically a free win. Like you already mentioned, her current power can't be changed much. Change it too little, nothing changes. Change it too much, she could easily become the worst killer in the game.
I think people hate Spirit more because she is easier, and she can win just as little effort as Nurse can sometimes. Familiarity breeds contempt, and in my experience and alot of others Spirit is far more common than Nurse. There's also the fact that technically, you at least know when Nurse is blinking. Spirit doesn't give any such information.
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To be fair they're both equally a pain in the arse to go against.
Have to say spirit is the worst one of the 2 if I'm honest. I've tried every single possible thing against her and even without bbq on she knows where I am. Il be fixing a gen and there she is just appearing outta nowhere. So I escape a chase move to another gen, oh there she is again 😂
There is absolutely no counters against spirit. If anyone has one feel free to give me some tips! Nurse is so much easier to go against. I've escaped so many times, probably because she's easily nackered. Spirit is very persistent and it's consistently a chase with her. I hear her whine and I'm like yup this will be a quick match.
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They're close in strength level. But Nurse gives feedback. Spirit doesn't. And the skill levels required to perform proficiently with them are worlds apart. Those are the general reasons.
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Here's the issue with Nurse - You need to understand how she works mechanically to be able to reliably predict what she does. I main her and even I'll admit this. However if you have a basic understanding of Nurse at least you can counter and outplay her but all survivors need to be on the same wavelength or it's easy for Nurse to single out the weak links really quickly. I personally wouldn't change Nurse aside from nerfing any addons that buff her base power like charge time and such. I play her ONLY without addons and I feel this is the only way she is balanced. The reason so many people get destroyed by Nurse is because they either haven't seen one lately and it's basically relearning on how to verse the killer again or they've never played Nurse. If Nurse was more common everyone would realize you can outplay her granted it's difficult against good ones.
Spirit is basically guesswork I don't even need to explain it.
Main difference between the two though
Nurse telegraphs her power - Spirit doesn't
For those who don't know what that means
"convey (an intentional or unconscious message), especially with facial expression or body language."
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I'm main Nurse too, with more than 20 thousand blink attacks and I do agree with everything that you said about Nurse.
But I've being playing Spirit for the last two months consistently, I reached a peak that facing really good survivors is much more challenging than with Nurse. To begin with: windows and pallets do work against Spirit...
There's A LOT of prediction with Spirit, it's not only "FolLoW tHe SoUnD", she is not a breainless killer that people likes to say everywhere.
I definitely don't agree with the hate towards her.
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All you need to play spirit with are good headphones
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What is this logic because nurse is harder shes ok that a stupid thing to balance around. I find clown to be easy 4k should he get nerf cause of that same with survivor for me survivor is easy should they nerf the survivor gameplay cause of that. The fact that a killer is harder or not should not matter in the buff and nerf its the only game i see they nerf character cause of that.
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Both are unbalanced but at least Nurse takes a lot of skill and I can respect the hell out of good Nurses even if they’re miserable to go against. This video explains it better than I can:
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Against Nurse survivors have a vast array of mindgames and jukes at their disposal, and the Nurse must read their mind and predict what they'll do (that's why she is considered the hardest killer to play). Against a Spirit who stands still at a pallet or window, what can a survivor do except choosing a random direction to go to?
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In short. Anyone can pick up spirit and be pretty good at her... throw on Stridor and Pop, and you would have to be the worst killer in the game or going up against some very strong survivors to lose.
I don't know anyone who just picked up nurse and was good with her.
Basically people give nurse a break because it takes more training to be good with her... Where as spirit most people can be good with her, with just a decent pair of headphones and stridor.
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Because its much harder to use nurse blinks accurately. I personally love going against spirt. She's one of the few killers that scares me.
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Because countering a Nurse is easier than countering a Spirit (for the most part).
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When I face a good Nurse I know I am facing someone who has to put some skill and effort into it. When I face a Spirit I know all they need is a decent headset and a functioning pair of ears.
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Nurse has been changed and bugged into oblivion, also, the "it only takes a few hours lawwwwl" are literally going against players who run in straight lines, if you are a good survivor who understands how the nurse is played, you can easily juke her. At the end of the day, vs the best, it is a complete and utter guess fest. And you, the survivor, are in control of how many of those guesses the nurse has to make. It is still in your favor using information while breaking line of sight to make the prediction as hard as possible.
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I don't find Nurse to be nearly as frustrating as people make her out to be. I have more trouble with Hag.
With Nurse you just do a lot of listening, keep your distance, and if she comes near you just expect a blink and do a lot of side-stepping, ducking behind objects, etc. I don't claim to be a master at this game (I'm certainly not) but I actually enjoy Nurse matches, I don't quite understand what all the fuss is about.
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Nurse is probably the most fun killer to face. Completely disagree about a lack of counterplay. There is a lot survivors can do to extend chases against even the best of Nurse players. Not every killer needs to be a joke against elite players like most of the M1 roster.
Survivors are making mistakes if chases aren't going 20-30 seconds minimum against top tier Nurses. Less than 20 seconds means the survivor is massively mis-managing distance or doubling back every time like a bot. Beyond mixing up pathing, there are layers of technical things survivors can do, like using your character model to block blinks at certain tiles. Rock tiles and pre-dropped pallets are great for stuffing blinks.
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Because unlike spirit nurse still has counterplay and is actually somewhat fun to play against. You can react to what she is doing and there are loads of interactions between the survivors and the killer.
With spirit it is just... borderline nonexistent. Like you guess what she is doing and then you get smacked because she is spirit.
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Nurse requires hours, days, weeks, months of perfecting your skill and figuring out tactical finesse while also understanding survivors on a gameplay level to make any sort of mindgame work. Nurse mains also have to deal with the slew of bugs she still has and can often lose entire matches because of an unfortunate bug.
Spirits, however, just need a single perk to become SS tier and can 4k without much effort. Can you hear well? You can 4k as Spirit.
They're both unbalanced due to their gameplay being direct counters to everything a Survivor can do to beat them, however Nurse requires some form of effort and a considerable amount of luck. While Spirit is obnoxiously easy to 4k with.
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Spirit doesn't require skill. Prove me wrong.
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Nurse is completely unfair if the player is experienced with her but at least you can tell what she's doing. There's an audio cue for when she's charging a blink, there's a visual effect for it, you can at least try to break line of sight and she's punished for missing.
Compare that to Spirit who knows where you are in her power if the player is using headphones + Stridor, goes lightning fast without much effort or precision required, has no visual or audio cue for her using her power (unless you're outside the terror radius) and she leaves a clone of herself behind with no difference in animation so you can't even tell when she started doing it. And she doesn't have to immediately swing out of her power if she's unsure of where you are exactly so she can exit phase and just run at you without fatigue unlike Nurse.
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Nurse has a very long and painful learning curve while spirit doesn't. Nurse also has counter play, spirit does not.
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If Spirit has no counterplay, than she is stronger than Nurse, right?
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I'm sure it's been mentioned already but:
I feel like Nurse's power itself is inherently stronger than Spirit's due its ability to completely circumvent map elements. A good Nurse at a reasonably close distance can also position her blinks in-between your possible positions at the end of the blink to prevent any real counter-play on your part.
That said, I still find her infinitely more fair than Spirit simply because she gives significant audio and visual cues as to what she is doing and where she is going. She gives you time to understand and react to her movements, even if you're in such a bad position that your reaction is futile regardless of what you do at that moment
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In contrast, Spirit does not give any significant cues as to what she is doing.
To re-use an old analogy of mine: it's like walking down the street, having someone whistle from behind you, turning around, and getting punched in the face. You don't have any real warning or indicator what will happen until the moment it's too late, and that is births both a frustrating and unpleasant experience.
And no, the small faintly glowing shards on her body and the slight animation reset when beginning a phase is not a significant cue as to what's happening. It's impossible to discern from a distance and still exceedingly difficult to discern up-close, especially relative to anything else in this game and even many other games. Even if you're attuned to these slight cues to know when she's phasing, you still have no significant indicator as to where she is or what she's doing - it's all a guess.
Why on earth would I find such a one-sided interaction fun and stimulating?
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Flawed conclusion. Old moonwalking Legion had no counterplay too. Were they stronger than Nurse?
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Why is Nurse stronger than Spirit?
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It's purely because nurse is harder to play and as such a good nurse that takes advantage of her lack of counter play is pretty rare. Spirit is basically just easy nurse as long as you have functioning ears and stridor.
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Way too accurate haha
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For me personally, It's not the killers themselves that bother me.
It's when players throw every slowdown perk into a build that fills all the mistakes they make in the game. No amount of counterplay is going to make a dent when pop + ruin + undying says "all that time they wasted getting to you, nope".
And the same goes survivor builds, but I feel like they've already addressed the brunt of it with the DS change.
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