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So... moris are toxic?
The devs were talking expansively (without revealing much though) about how moris will get reworked somehow because they are "toxic". This "toxic" word was used 2 or 3 times in a row to qualify them.
Then it was kind of like "also we'll rework the key".
Moris and keys are both controversial items since they appeared in the game. Although I really want to ask and understand... why Moris as they are now in the game (can execute a survivor who's already dead on hook anyway) would be defined as "toxic" while keys as they are now (can escape through the closed hatch sometimes even before gens are all repaired and just deny most available counterplay to the killer) would not be as "toxic" as the moris?
Disclaimer: I don't really care about people using moris and keys. I'm just curious about this choice of words.
Comments
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I think they were talking about pre rework mori
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They said "despite the recent changes to Mori offerings" before talking about how "toxic" it is and that they would change it because of that. That's why I'm confused about it. I don't think they're talking about pre-rework mori.
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The only thing I care about is that I'm refunded for all the Mori Offerings I still have unused once they make it no longer Offering. :)
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It’s toxic that killers can camp someone on second stage, and totally ignore any risk of DS.
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To my dismay, this is another textbook example of the devs acting like killers having strong things is "abusable" or "toxic" but strong survivor things are "just part of the game". I could not believe they said that moris were toxic and prematurely ended matches, yet all they said about keys was that they would change them eventually, and didn't draw the comparison that they also are considered toxic and end matches early. We've been knowing for months that keys are going to be changed, but what is and when is the change?!
I really hoped they would fix keys before this chapter, but it looks like any first time players we get from the RE community are going to see keys and be brainwashed like so many others that when keys are abused "this is just DBD". There has to be a balance of power in these types of games for it to be fun, and keys lean towards the game breaking side of things in my opinion.
But no, even if moris were toxic before, they aren't now. They're much too weak to be seen that way, as they sometimes take longer to use than simply hooking someone 3 times.
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Pre rework moris were toxic new moris though are the opposite for me at least. I get to see a cool animation unique to that killer (except wraith and trapper ######### their boring moris I hope they get reworked) instead of getting the big stab by spooky spider god. As killer I prefer them too I get a cool animation instead of just hooking them again.
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Ok so it's supposedly toxic that killer would potentially have a way to counter half of one perk (because not countered between first and second hook) in a very specific scenario (catching the survivor right after the unhook before the survivor touches any gen, does any heal, etc...)?
Considering most of the moris take way longer than just picking up and hooking (except if the survivor managed to get veeeery far from ANY hook which is rather uncommon) then actually doing the mori without knowing if the person has DS or not isn't always the best "tactical choice". Let's face it: moris are mostly used for their cool animation. Not the supposedly strategic advantage it would potentially offer.
When accounting the fact that DS isn't very used anymore compared to before it's rework where it was EVERYWHERE... I really have hard time to consider it remotely toxic with this basis alone.
@danielmaster87 Yes the parallel between moris being toxic and keys being "just changed" without any comment about their state now surprised me... hence this thread.
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I would like to reference one of my few threads (I rarely start any. Despite my 2 thousand posts, I actually only started 14 threads). Note this thread
I called it, didn't I? I called it MONTHS ago.
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Then they must not have been tunneled off their first hook or else they would have used their DS.
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I wonder what they meant by working for the Mori, is it not enough work,to catch 4 people and hook them all 8 times,with the rate of gens that could be done ,what sort of work does this mean 😶
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Also Billy, his mori is full of yawns
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English isn't their first language, I'm not certain the connotations of "toxic" are what they were going for.
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Yes... and after they’re hooked for a second time a toxic killer can kill them instantly
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Yes they can... Losing the most precious resource of the game (time) to avoid one potential perk... a perk that I don't even see once per match now. And it would be in a very specific scenario. This will happen like... once every 5-10 games maybe? (probably even less than that). Once again if it's just that point and only that... it's laughable now with the DS rework.
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This is just my assumption - I am not stating it is what they mean.
I THINK that they mean it will be something similar to Executioner - where you have hooked the person twice and will have a choice between a mori or a third hook. You have "worked" for the mori by already hooking them twice. In other words: Mori will become basekit after 2 hooks.
AGAIN - this is me speculating.
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Oh that's cool ,so all killer will be able to Mori.
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Yeah, the mori comments confused me, too. Ever since they nerfed moris, they don't even do anything besides play an animation when you die, so how can they still be toxic or something that ends the game prematurely? Also, the person already has to be on death hook to get morried, so obviously the killer worked for it...
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Yeah I don't see how moris are toxic right now. To me, the way I see it, after the third down you're dead either way whether I hook you or execute you. Also like it was stated earlier, sometimes it's not even worth going for the mori as the animations usually (depending on the killer) take longer than just hooking them and walking away. Like I personally never really run a mori offering unless if I really don't feel like using up one of my other offerings. To me it's just not worth taking 9.9/10 times. So yeah I have no clue ######### that dev meant by the moris being toxic right now, if anything they're a bit useless right now.
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You all are missing the point. Although, they nerf Moris, it still looked down upon on players who uses the offering.
They want to change the perspective and have it where it’s actually built into the core gameplay. And I think that’s better than constantly having the need to use a slot of an offering when you’re better off using other offering.
I wonder how this system would affect Mori perks though.
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This is one thing that made me bummed out about the whole thing.
Mori's where never "toxic" (neither are keys).
They were overpowered and it allowed you to focus on a particular survivor and get them out so early that it became a much easier game, but that is a flawed mechanic not a toxic problem. Same goes for keys.
They were/are from a gameplay perspective an amazing tool.
But these amazing tools are so strong that the people on the recieving end can't help but feel a bit cheated by them. This breeds resentment and the resentment comes to the forums and maifests as angry hate posts, vicious arguing, players who claim they go out of their way to grief players who bring these things and ruin their game because somehow that's justified (<-this is actual toxicity).
So the toxic players who can't deal with these things slap the toxic moniker onto them and it begins to stick. To hear the devs do this is disapointing. I'd expect that kind of thing from crappy players but from the devs... ugh, shame.
Admit you made it a bit to strong and look at ways to tone it down and do it consecutively so one half of the player base don't feel shafted by the changes.
Keys I don't really care about as I don't tend to use them and if everyone gets out with one then who cares, killer queues are instant.
Moris I miss, I miss using them as killer for an easier out but mostly I miss them as survivor, as they made the killer truely scary. You really didn't want to get caught when a mori was floating about, can't recall the last time I found the killer scary as survivor, new mori or not.
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But that's the same as hooking them a third time basically. Are killers only supposed to have offerings, add-ons, and perks that are minor inconveniences for survivor, or should they actually be allowed to have stuff that feels decent to use?
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All i know is that with this announcement, keys will not be changing for a minimum of 6 months to 2 years since they are only in the planning phase of this mori/key update.
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No more toxic than getting a 3rd hook.
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Is it not for survivors to do gens carelessly and escape anyway because one of them died ignoring anyvrisk of a 3 gen?
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Mori: after hooking a survivor 2 times, the killer must then go to the basement, pray at an alter to the entity for 30 seconds, after which, they have earned their mori on that specific survivor.... if they consent and agree it is not toxic.
Keys: * crickets * .... half a second unlocking animation has to be fully played
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That statement was more in reference to the mori’s before the change. Making them more of a natural part of the trial would change the perceptions of toxicity since it’s something achieved through normal gameplay. As for what it would be I’m excited.
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How often does this even happen
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To me, its like this:
Old moris could derail the game early, because it is designed for a 4v1. By hooktunneling one guy into mori you could shift the balance of the game, most likly winning it with that one kill. A mori had the power to make you win, even if you were losing.
Key only comes almost always into play when you are losing. And actually, you still lose, you just dont die doing it. Usually, if the game is progressed enough for a key to come into play, the outcome is most likely already determined.
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And lose 3 gens against good survivors...
A survivor can let 2 (or 1)teammates die, after doing 3 (4) gens and use a key to get both ( OR ALL 3 )out even if I'm standing on the hatch.
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They were yes. How many times did you see an old mori used and the killer didn't just instantly kill the first player unhooked? Me? less than 4 games in 4 years
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Losing gens doesn’t make the game any more pleasant for a survivor who doesn’t get to play after waiting 10 mins in the queue
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Since the retirement of New Moon Bouquet the Ebony Mori is the only ultra rare offering in the game. DbD has an achievement for burning an ultra rare offering. Doubt they will just retires Moris but maybe turn them into a new offering. At least they will have to come up with a new ultra rare. Maybe even one for survivors.
Besides that I agree current Moris aren't really toxic. Just not in a good state, because there is barely a reason to use them compared to bloodpoint or map offerings. And the Mori animation isn't really a good reason for something you will have seen thousand times at some point.
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In fact killers who do this don't play against good survivors. You see this happen consistently at low ranks.
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As it sounded they probably turn moris into something you can use with the last survivor on his last hook. Maybe even bound to getting a minimum of 10 hooks or something.
So we´ll see moris once in a blue moon.
Meanwhile keys are apparently fine.
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i wouldnt call it TOXIC but it indeed is crappy gameplay from both sides. it 100 percent needed to change for sure.
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I would have prefered they wouldn't use the word toxic at all under any context.
It's such a pointless word that lost all meaning that it's really weird hearing it used in a official lifestream.
It would be like if they called newer players baby killers/survivors
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Agreed, Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here.
Still no clue what exactly they wanted to say though.
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This was just posted on the website about Moris.
"Memento Mori Update: We’re also revisiting Moris and discussing a new approach where triggering them is no longer based on the Killer playing an offering, but rather earning them through gameplay during a trial. This would both provide an interesting new game mechanic with new objectives and strategic decision-making, as well as an opportunity for Survivors to either engage with the system or not. This is still in the very early stages and will likely go through several changes before release. "
So it sounds like Survivors can opt out of being Moried. What do you think the chances are that Killers don't get the same option when it comes to keys?
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to me its sounds like the survivor will be considered dead as soon as the animation start, and when they "die" they go straight to the lobby, so if they don't want to watch they can spectate or leave.
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