how is killer balaanced?
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I stopped playing for months, got de ranked from rank 1 to rank 20 in both sides, and I have to say, when playing as survivor, as an experienced player, Killers CANNOT hook me even once 9/10 games, and if they do, I almos always en up escaping.
Your statement is valid while you're a new player.
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I was mainly talking about when you said "also ive made a poll that showed there are more killers on dbd than there are survs" and then accused someone of twisting the results of the poll you made when everyone can see it. But I'll respond to the other points you brought into the conversation as well so this is going to be a post on the longer side.
Idk why you brought up how many killers we ideally need. Yes that's true, but I didn't say anything about that. On that subject the ideal is not what's happening to most players. Its more than ~3 to each killer or whatever the number should ideally be.
I did read your comment on fake data, I just didn't say anything on the matter because it was irrelevant to the point I was making previously. On that subject, I understand what you're trying to say because anyone can make anything up. However when:
- Most people are claiming to experience the problems that would arise from too many survivors playing
- All polls (at least that I've seen) also support that theory, including your own
- The devs support that theory (when it would be in their best interest not to)
- Most people agree killer is the much less desirable role to play and to a lesser majority that its the weaker role
I think its safe to say that survivors are the majority and too much so and we need more killer players. Most peoples personal experience and stats are lining up in that direction. Can we ever really know with 100% certainty? No, probably not. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try or talk about it and get to a "95% most likely" or something.
My survivor ques for example were long before and they have only gotten longer as of late. It appears that's the majority of players. I've also seen other polls over the years and everything I have seen has always had/has survivor players in the majority.
Add to that as well that over the past year or so a lot of killers have either stop playing the game completely or those that played both sides (like me) have either shifted to survivor much more (also like me) or just switched entirely. So the percentages are probably even more survivors compared to killers now than before.
Also in the example you gave at the bottom, I think it'd be much more likely that more killers would be on the forum to complain about a big survivor buff than survivors. I understand what you were getting at, just commenting on it I guess.
In any case, if your experience is different than you may just be in one of those areas that don't follow the norm or play at non-peak times, or your opinion/perception is just different for whatever reasons.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
As others have said its just because you're new. If you get good at the game as survivor it shifts to the survivor side pretty hard (as long as your teammates aren't bad).
Your best bet if you want better games is to get a group together to play with. But if your randoms are good you'll still do well.
I'd say in general it goes:
bad solos < bad swf < most killers < good solos < top tier killers like Nurse and Spirit < Good SWF
Obviously there's more details/factors and in-betweens but that's a rough overview of what to expect most of the time.
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but they only buffed killer and nerfed surv over the years (beside the mori change)
games like darksouls attrack people because of the difficulty and thats honestly the same with surv
since SWF actually only make up 5% of the survivor player base and thats stats you can actually proove with real reasoning
"also ive made a poll that showed there are more killers on dbd than there are survs" the last time i checked it was nearly 50% 50% considering the comments with and slight head start on killer about a year ago
things change remember that was a year ago before surv got even more difficult to play
One of the devs mentioned that survivor players make up around 80% of the player base on DBD aka the majority. We'd realistically need ~1 killer for every 3 survivors because survivors can re-queue the moment they are are out of the game but the killer has to stay until the very end
your not stronk at maths are ya? If out of 5 people one person is the killer how much killers are there in percentages?
5 = 100%
1 = 20%
4 = 80%
this means there might be even more killers but the stats aren't able to show based on how the game works
polls are not actual evidence there are too many factors that manipulate the outcome as i already explained
but yeah no the killer queues took around 20min in comparison to waiting 5 min max as surv so thats not true what you said
"I think it'd be much more likely that more killers would be on the forum to complain about a big survivor buff than survivors"
quite a negative view on things and contradicting to the part u said killers stopped playing and wouldnt that be even more so if there was a huge survivor buff? put that together with killers being buffed so they come back and survs getting nerfed all the time but you still nearly only see killers complaining and your answer would be a clear no you are wrong about nearly all you said.
Post edited by Spyonme on0 -
I don´t know on what ranks you play, but red and purple killers have almost instant lobbies starting in the evening. While survivors of the same rank range have 5 to 10 minute queues while playing solo and up to 20 minutes while playing SWF.
The Dark Souls comparision doesn´t fit. Because Dark Souls is hard but fair. Unlike DbD.
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"They only Buffed killer".
Yeah, new Jill's tótem perk seems like a huge Buff to Undying + Ruin/Devour.
Billy stupid Nerf, Old ruin Nerf, Undying Nerf, Freddy nerf, ColdWind Maps and puzzle Maps are just Killers Nerf with 95% Safe pallets...... And survivors got..... 1 Nerf! Oh my god man, DS Nerf is the only One vs all this Killers nerfs. Hell yeah, "Killers Buffed"
SWF is more than 60% of the games, if they were 5%, the Game would be perfect to both sides, but the truth is that every 10 games you play as killer, 6-7 games are against SWF. I dont know what Game are you playing but is not DBD, 5% xD.
The Game is not 50-50, because It can't be, is a 4vs1, that means the right numbers should be 80-20, and this is not happening because Killers get insta queues and survivors takes like 5-7 min sometimes... That means the Game is maybe 85-15 or even 90-10, not enough Killers, excuse me, buffed Killers.
I understand, you maybe have 300-400 hours played and purple Killers destroy you because you dont now how to abuse loops yet, that's fine. Keep players, reach red ranks, find people to play together and just bully every Killer you meet, except Spirit and Nurses.
Those killer Will left the game, queues get longer, survivors cry on the forum due to queues times but they dont want gen speed be nerf, SWF Nerf or stupid second chance perks Nerf.
Mix that and you have DBD on 2021, how to get bullied on a Game, now with Némesis.
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I am red ranks on my main and purple on my alt account
nearly all killers on all ranks have an above 50% killrate
tell me again how killers are not too strong
Post edited by Spyonme on0 -
alot of bold and absolute wrong claims and assumptions
I play at both purple and red ranks due to alot of camping red rank killers
"Billy stupid Nerf, Old ruin Nerf, Undying Nerf, Freddy nerf"
Freddy had a 3 out of 4 kill rate so it had to be changed its not a nerf if the killer is gamebreaking
Ruins change is so old i didnt consider it recent and it was gamebreaking and still is very strong
"I understand, you maybe have 300-400 hours played and purple Killers destroy you because you dont now how to abuse loops yet, that's fine. Keep players, reach red ranks, find people to play together and just bully every Killer you meet, except Spirit and Nurses"
No not really if you loop a killer more than 1 time he starts camping once he gets you (atleast for me it is like that, i get camped and alot of headshaking
"ColdWind Maps and puzzle Maps are just Killers Nerf with 95% Safe pallets" This is so wrong I dont even know where to start
They made the maps smaller having 3 gens within 20m each is a killer nerf? No the pallets haven't been changed, the last time they did they removed infinites and also reduced save vaults jungle gyms etc.
"abuse loops" maybe break the pallet?
"SWF is more than 60% of the games" you should fact check before you write such stuff some poor guys might actually believe you
just go look at the patchnotes before you become a keyboard hero next time
nearly all killers at all ranks have an above 50% killrate
End of discussion
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Didn't you say earlier that you should never trust stats you didn't take yourself?
At least try to hide your hypocrisy.
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sounds like you didnt get the joke
also on the stats they talked about
I proved it to be wrong/meaningless
and ofcourse you can never trust stats but if they talk stats i talk stats
they also said only survs complain on this forum
this discussion is kind of proof against that statement
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Both sides complain, plenty. And no, I didn't get the "joke" because there is literally no way to tell when someone is being sarcastic on the Internet. Especially this forum.
And the only issue I have is you bringing in the kill stats, because even if as a joke, bringing them up and using them as a basis for your proof makes you gigantic hypocrite. Especially when the stats are both over a year old at this point, and taken by somebody else. Which again, you said to never trust. So which is it? Trust stats, or don't?
This game is neither killer nor survivor sided, it's far too reliant on RNG and other factors, like the terrible matchmaking.
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Not all killers.
So... buff Nurse and nerf Pig, yes?
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not trusting is not the same as disregarding it
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nurse maybe not buffing but definitly changing her (adding more blinks would be terrible)
Pig yes a clear clear yes
that she is standing still while charging the launch is just terrible and her base traps are far to useless without addons
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So you want to nerf Pig even further?
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Trapper has 65+% killrate and is an absolutely trash killer, One of the weakest, just Myers and Trickster are worst than him. So, he kills a lot, lets Nerf him because survivors are potatos xD.
Same with Freddy, people just greed pallets and take free hits, but the problem is the killer again. The only killers that Need nerfs are Spirit and Nurse, because they are just stupid, no counterplay.
Ruin change is 1 year ago, and It wasnt gamebreaking, do you know what was gamebreaking and took 3 Years to get a Nerf? DS. Repairing in front of the killer without any kind of punishment, dont you remember? Oh, I think you only remember "Strong" killer ones.
Oh, pallets didn't change, excuse me, Old Puzzle map also had 25 pallets like actual map :) yeah, seems you played It a lot before rework. And ColdWind is even stronger than before, now you can't mindgame tall loops because they have 700 holes and survivor can see you every second, cowshep is just ridiculous. But yeah man, Maps are fine, Breakable walls FTW.
And yeah, I checked It and SWF is more than 60% of players at red ranks, are you comming here to give me lessons? ihave 10 times more hours than you for sure, Played this Since Myers realease so I know perfectly what im talking about.
Next time think that not all forum users are newbies like you with 400 hours, Keyboard Hero.
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Mostly right.
However, it's not SWF sided, it's "good survivor" sided. SWF just simply guarantees you get good survivors.
IE you could even roll the dice in solo queue, happen to good teammates, and the game is still sided in your favor.
Saying a "good killer" is stronger than solo queue is assuming you get unlucky and roll bad teammates which isn't always the case. When people say "survivor sided" they are implying a match of good vs good, which is how you objectively measure balance and where it is objectively in survivors favor.
The main factor here is the skill of your teammates, coms is just an added bonus that throws it even more over the top.
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This is the exact opposite of what the stats say
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I wouldn't necessarily say this. Solo queue survivor is agonizing, even at rank 1. Most times you get pretty bad teammates and there is nothing you can do. It's much more surprising when you DO get good teammates than when you don't.
Overall, it seems the consensus for a lot of the community is solo queue survivor is the hardest, killer is the second hardest, SWF is the easiest.
They only become overpowered when there are multiple really strong survivors on the team that hold M1 at any opportunity and can give killers really good chases.
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DBD is just hard when you're new no matter which side you're playing. There was also a recent rank reset bug that ended up resetting some high rank players back up to rank 20, so you could very well be playing against players who are way better than their rank would suggest. I'm usually a red rank killer, for example, but through a combination of rank reset and not playing much for the last couple of months I'm currently a rank 17 killer. Then I get matched up with other rank 17s, many of whom are pretty new to the game, and it ends up being lopsided even when I'm messing around and trying to be nice :/
The forum does tend to have a killer-sided slant to it, though, so that's worth keeping in mind as well when you see people calling survivors OP. I'd recommend you play both sides - it's good for learning and it'll help give you a more balanced perspective on the game.
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That poll also only had 36 total replies and no "both sides" option, which from the comments clearly resulted in many people not voting. Here's another recent poll with more responses and a proper both option:
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Even with that, SWFs have a huge advantage, which bypasses most of the game's balance and design. SWFs have perks like bond, kindred, better together etc as their base kit.They also nullify killer's perks like Knockout. Other perks, like Adrenaline, DS, Head on, Unbreakable, BT, etc, can be abused in ways unimaginable in soloQ due to coordination in discord. So no, this game is SWF sided: however good solo survivors can be, SWF survivors with the same amount of skill will always be by an order of magnitude better solely due to the comms.
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You missed the entire point of my post mate.
I didn't disagree in my previous post with anything you said in this post. Saying it's "good survivor" sided, Includes SWF. Everything you just said agreed with everything I posted.
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its not a 1v1 its a 1v4. killer 100% needs to be considerably stronger. the balancing has gone back and forth, but we are in a better place now than we have been in a while. The team balances for more casual players, if they balanced for competitive/tournament level players..... the killers would need even more help. Look at competitive dbd and you will see that it is rare the killer gets a 4K. It is also general concensus that getting a 3k+hatch escape, 4k, or variations are considered "wins" but you can get a 4k and get brutal killer if you play scummy and camp/slug early on. It is hard to say what a "win" is for killer as opposed to survivor, where you escape, or you dont.
Basically it comes down to the 1v4, while this isnt all scenarios, since there is voice comms and things like that... the killer generally has a lot more pressure on them to dictate the pace of the game and small mistakes by them can spell the end of the game, where survivors can carry each other's mistakes in most circumstances, considering skill is equal among all 5 players.
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- "but they only buffed killer and nerfed surv over the years"
That's untrue. Just to throw out a few more recent examples, The Game map got buffed for survivors. Small game got a buff. Lucky Break got a buff. Freddy got Nerfed. Huntress add-ons got nerfed.
Even if survivors got nerfed more that doesn't necessarily mean they're weaker than killers now. To show this in a simple way, if surv was 50 and killer was 5 and surv got nerfed 15 but killer got buffed 15, well now surv is 35 and killer is 20. Did survivor get nerfed? Yes. Did killer get buffed? Yes. Are Survivors lower? No.
Whether thats actually the case or not is up to the individual, I'm not trying to convince you survivors are stronger right now (even if I believe they are), I'm just pointing out saying "but survivors got nerfed" even if true, doesn't mean much unless you can prove they got weaker than killers. Yeah Spirit got nerfed and got collision, did she get weaker? Yes. Did she become weak? No. She's still unbalanced. Survivors can still be unbalanced.
- "since SWF actually only make up 5% of the survivor player base and thats stats you can actually proove with real reasoning"
I didn't argue how many SWF groups there are, but I would like to see this supposed proof out of curiosity.
- "One of the devs mentioned that survivor players make up around 80% of the player base"
I haven't seen/heard said claim, but afaik we also don't know what the devs consider a "player" of either category in their data. If I play killer once am I now a killer player? If I play killer 1/10 games am I still counted as a killer player? I honestly almost never trust the dev stats because they make them so vague or broad that they don't mean much most of the time.
- "your not stronk at maths are ya? If out of 5 people one person is the killer how much killers are there in percentages?"
I never brought up percentage except in the one case talking about your poll because it was clearly shown and was a point of contention. I'm just fine at math imo. I didn't make an argument based on math in my post so there's no reason to conclude anything regarding my ability on that matter. It seems to me you're just lashing out with insults with no solid basis for doing so as far as I can see.
Polls are not perfect as you and I have said, but when the majority of polls taken from different groups in different factors all have the same trend, that supports said trend. Trends being survivor bloat and long survivor ques. Prove? No. Support? Yes.
I pointed out that most factors lean towards way too many survivor players at most times, but there's no way to really know, its just the most likely scenario dues to all the factors at play and experiences in the game.
- "this means there might be even more killers but the stats aren't able to show based on how the game works"
And there can't be even more survivors than the stats show? Most peoples experience is long survivor ques short killer ques. I would lean towards more survivors than shown. I'm unsure what you're trying to say with the "how the game works" portion. Just because there's 1 killer for every 5 survivors in a match doesn't mean that reflects the actual number of people playing/queuing the role in the game at large.
You just listed out the ideal numbers, but that doesn't reflect the actual numbers.
- "things change remember that was a year ago"
Yeah I touched on that. For sake of argument lets say the opposite of what I said and there are more killer players now than then, judging by the que times and ect. there's still not enough in most cases/areas/times. Your experience differs from the majority in both cases it would seem.
Your poll was 50/50 when you remember it but its not like it stuck around for a whole year. Most polls are gone in about a few days to week or so and you can't change your answer once you vote. The last post on that poll was 3 days after it was made. The result we can see on it now are extremely likely to be what the results were then and my guess is you just didn't check up on it and only went off the initial results.
Your poll was also flawed to begin with if you wanted to get the general population of the 2 sides at any given time as you only asked for mains of one side. If I play 80-90% survivor and 10-20% killer I wouldn't be a "main" but I'd still contribute to the longer ques in the majority of my time. We saw in said poll that a lot of people who said "both" also didn't vote on a side or specify how much they play each side. They could be 90% survivor 10% killer. So we can deduce that the likely scenario is more people only play survivor in the group that answered. That doesn't prove anything on its own but it is evidence to support the killer shortage/survivor bloat theory, as is every other poll I've seen personally and most peoples experience including my own.
Again, Prove? No. Support? Yes.
- "but yeah no the killer queues took around 20min in comparison to waiting 5 min max as surv so thats not true what you said"
It sounds to me that your just in one of the few areas/times that don't follow the norm, like I said. My killer ques were almost instant and my survivor ques were 10+ minuets and that's still true today. That also seems to be what most people experience. It might not be true for you but for most people it appears to be.
- "quite a negative view on things and contradicting to the part u said killers stopped playing"
I don't see it as negative, its just that people react more strongly/vocally to things they dislike rather than things they like as they want to change what they dislike. Its just human nature.
I also don't see how this contradicts my point, the remaining killer population will come to complain. Those that switched to survivor might complain or tell others to switch too. There's also people who stopped playing who still come to the forums.
Why does it matter if a lot of them left or switched? The remaining ones and those who care will speak up.
- "but you still nearly only see killers complaining"
I still see plenty of survivor complaints. In fact one of the reoccurring complaints I see from survivors are from the long que times and there's always people complaining about camping and tunneling.
Again, if you're experiencing long killer ques your experience is not the norm. Believe me or don't, where this stated was me just pointing out a flaw in what you said that was blatantly obvious about a poll you made. This is way off base from "hey your poll actually says this clear as day" to things like SWF percent, dev data, how many nerfs survivors got, and ect.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
that could be because you're a new player going against new survivors. It gets tougher as you rank up. Also welcome to the fog!! 😀
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Keep playing killer and see how easier it becomes lol
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