Nerfs Needed
When can we expect nerfs for Deathslinger or Spirit so I can stop killing my self on the hook and actually play both without feeling like I 4ked without having to try? Not bait cause I actually enjoy versing Nurse cause she actually has counterplay.
Comments
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You're not gonna get better against them if all you do is hook suicide. 🤷♂️
Also, way to screw over your teammates as well...
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Deathslinger doesn’t need a nerf. He isn’t strong enough, but he does need counterplay in the 1v1, which might be too complicated to fix for him.
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Spirit needs nerf but Deathslinger is fine
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Wow... way to screw over your teammates.
Hate a killer all you want, but no need to ruin a game over it.
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Spirit I can understand. I would not like to see her get completely gutted, but I suppose a change would help.
Deathslinger, however, doesn't need a nerf.
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I think maybe they can nerf spirit with a clear faze animation but deathslinger is fine. Really he is not op. I won many matches against him and the killer often played very good.
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I mean he has counterplay. Its hard but its not like he activates his power and gets a hit. Some structures are worthless against him and he can fake his power to zone you out, but a good survivor can loop him longer then an average survivor.
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1 you screw your teamate because you dont like the killer you face not really good
2 spirit have counter play tru3talent show and explain the counter play a multiple of time on his stream.
3 nurse dont have any counter play if she miss its because its her fault nothing you do will change that
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We dunno, but killing yourself on hook because someone picked a character is a dickish move imo
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Spirit doesn't have counter play, if she has counter play then Nurse has counter play, the only difference between these 2 killers is Nurse has an auditory and visual queue of when she's using her power, how ever you're not going to be juking a god Nurse, not consistently anyway. Same goes for Spirit, there is not one thing that you can do consistently that will guarantee a successful outcome, you can guess what she's gonna do but you can only guess right so many times.
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All Deathslinger needs is a 1.5-2 second lock between raising and lowering his gun so he can't just snipe you with 0 reaction time for the survivor. That's about it. Spirit needs tells.
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Wow, way to be a dickhead to your teammates and the killer.
Deathslinger's fine and Spirit just needs that bug that let's you hear her footsteps/breathing at the start of her phase to become a feature.
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Killshooter just needs tweaks - not a nerf, not a buff, more of a mix. As I main Slinger, here's the changes I would make:
-Majority of his add-ons reworked. Almost all of them are bad, or just reduce his mistakes rather than increasing his strength.
-A lengthy Doctor style period after putting down the Redeemer where he cannot attack or raise it again, ideally for 2.5 seconds to 3 seconds. He would not be slowed during this. This would stop the ADS spamming to passively zone a survivor, which I never do but recognize is genuinely unfair.
-When the Redeemer isn't loaded, Slinger moves at 4.6m/s. This would allow Slinger some limited mobility while introducing some interesting decision-making; do I reload, wasting time and being slower afterwards, but being ready for a chase? Or do I stay unloaded, getting around quicker and easier but not being ready for a chase immediately? It'd be pretty novel and a nice solution to his map pressure issue without including something stupid like a grappling hook.
That's all he needs, honestly. The ADS is what gives him his identity and what makes his power good- the reason everybody thought he was awful back on release was because nobody really quickscoped. If you've ever gone against a Slinger that aims down the sights for any longer than a couple seconds, you know how easy it is to dodge that with the tiny hitbox, slow movement speed and dodgy sensitivity. It's also balanced by the fact that his gun is not a direct source of damage, and that quickscoping doesn't mean jack if he can't reel you around the tile, or if you crouch in the window while being reeled so he can't hit you.
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this "if she has counter play then Nurse has counter play" logic, is real bad.
2 different characters that work in different ways. what applies to one doesn't apply to the other by default
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Droping pallet vaulting window are all usefull against spirit but useless against nurse because she dpnt care about that
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Unpopular opinion: Spirit is fine against SWF survivors. Against solo survivors, she need a slight nerf.
However with Deathslinger I would say the same but in reverse with the difference that in SWF he needs a buff.
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They play different but at the end of the day they have extremely oppressive chasing capabilities that leave the survivors with basically no options, the only difference being one gives off more information and is much more skillful while the other gives off no information to what they're doing and takes just a tiny bit of skill (if you even want to call it that).
The only reason why people don't complain about Nurse as often is because you barely see any one play her nowadays AND they usually aren't even that good.
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They're useful at delaying the Spirit a little, but at the end of the day there are only so many pallets, and vaulting isn't really gonna get you far since survivors make a little grunting noise when they vault.
Against Nurse your options as a survivor is to run behind a wall to break LoS, that again get only get you so far because if the Nurse is smart she's gonna blink in a way that covers the majority of (if not all) options the survivor has.
At the end of the day, Spirit downs survivors slightly slower than Nurse, and all the survivor is left with is trying to guess right as much as possible, your skill doesn't matter, its how lucky you are.
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There aren't many ways to get better against a killer that's designed to only ever miss if the killer ######### up. And don't pulll the tru3talent "but you're MAKING him miss" no, you aren't not against a player with a good aim.
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you can say where they are similar all you want, they are not the same character and what applies to one doesn't necessarily applies to the other
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are you familiar with the no true scotsman fallacy?
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That sounds fair. I despise going against slinger but I'd be happy with those changes.
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I know that, the way you go against these killers is different but at the end of the day their chase is very similar, the survivor is left with guessing what the killer will do and the killer does as much as possible to eliminate the most amount of options the survivor has
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if you know that, then stop using the "if she has counter play then Nurse has counter play" logic.
it's bad
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But youre not countering either of these killers, youre just guessing lmao
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Wanting a Slinger nerf...yikes
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Nope. Nurse has counterplay. It's called being unpredictable.
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disagree.
and even if that was true, this is not a conclusion you draw from "if she has counter play then Nurse has counter play". it would just be something they have in common
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Hmm lets see. Deathslinger is perfectly fine he's a B tier killer that has great 1v1 but his gen pressure sucks.
Spirit imo is fine, people need to shut up and learn to get better at playing against her and stop complaining like what you're doing.
Imo no killer needs a nerf at all.
The only killers that still need tweaks or buffs/rework are Pig, Trapper, Myers & Legion.
Pig: Power tweaks & Traps RNG change.
Trapper: Just allow him to carry all of his traps.
Myers: Outdated and needs an add-on pass.
Legion: Big Rework needed.
Survivors have the perks and tools to deal with every killer, it's just your own skills you need to improve instead of nerfing a killer. You need to get better yourself and stop ruining games for others by suiciding on hook because you play bad against a killer.
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I mostly like your changes, but I still disagree he should be able to quickscope. Every other ranged killer in the game has some sort of charge time and/or tell that the ranged attack is coming. When Deathslinger quickscopes, you cannot dodge. You can try to anticipate the shot and dodge preemptively, but at the end of the day he has to miss. Similarly, if a Slinger is missing after ADSing for a few seconds, that's on their aim tbh. It's not possible to actually dodge his projectile, so the best you can do is alligator run and hope he misses. If you're on console I certainly agree that actually lining up an accurate shot on a dodging survivor is extremely difficult, but that's a limitation of playing on a controller more than anything.
His gun effectively is a direct source of damage. It does two health states of damage to healthy survivors and one to injured survivors, even if they break the chain. An injured survivor breaking the chain seldom happens either, because any Deathslinger with a head on their shoulders will seldom shoot an injured survivor when they won't be able to reel them in. So, in effect, he almost always downs any speared injured survivor in addition to deep wounding any healthy survivor.
I think your proposed changes would be a net nerf to him, actually, and I don't think that was your intention. Zoning is a lot of the reason that he's busted in the 1v1 right now, so while Deathslingers with flawless aim wouldn't be hit hard, I think most Deathslingers would be. If his add-ons were really buffed then it might come out in the wash, but I think we should be pushing for better base kits and weaker add-ons instead of the opposite.
I like your cooldown between ADSes and I'm fine with an add-on rework (although again, I don't want them to be strong; just more consistently useful). I'd be okay with 115% while his clip is empty too, although keeping him at a 24m TR with 115% speed doesn't feel great either. I do think he needs a slower ADS, though, or at a minimum some sort of charge mechanic if the ADS must stay this fast. WIth this, I also don't think he'd need the cooldown between ADSes; the slower movement speed while raising his gun would be enough of a deterrent, just like it is for Huntress when she raises a hatchet.
I love the idea of a grappling hook for him, actually. It adds a lot of creativity and mobility to him, which he will need once he's not broken in the 1v1. It could be a bit tricky to balance - Do you reload after each grapple? Is there a cooldown? Can you M1 while grappling? How fast do you travel? - but I think it's worth any difficulty and growing pains. This would also be a major buff, especially in maps with elevation. Imagine how fun it would be to shoot the ceiling and rocket up the drop on Hawkins, and stuff. I think it'd be awesome! He'd feel like a hybrid between Blight and Huntress.
I would also remove his ability to deep wound healthy survivors who break free from the chain, since it's difficult to do in the first place unless he doesn't care about reeling you in, and since there is very little reward for a healthy survivor breaking the chain at the moment. I would keep the deep wounds for injured survivors who break free from the chain only. This way would also be logical, since it's one health state per hit on a healthy survivor; you need the M1 at the end to do the extra health state of damage.
Finally, his TR audio needs to make it clear when survivors are in the TR. Currently it spins up so quietly that his TR is effectively smaller than it really is. This should change.
HItting shots with him also does feel way less consistent than for other ranged killers, like Huntress. I'd increase the hitbox of the projectile to make him feel more consistent. I wouldn't necessarily make it Huntress-sized, but definitely big enough to make his power more forgiving.
So, to summarize, the full changes I'd propose:
Buff
- Grappling hook with a modest (~5-10 second) cooldown and no reload requirement between uses. This would still scare crows and the audio would be directional within a certain radius, just like a normal Redeemer shot.
- Bigger projectile hitbox
- Add-on rework (not powerful, but more consistently useful)
Nerf
- Substantially increased ADS time
- Healthy survivors who break free from the chain are no longer deep wounded
- TR audio adjusted so it's clear when survivors are in his terror radius
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Also, since when can you crouch while speared? As far as I knew he could always hit you through a window, but if this is possible it seems like he should never be able to hit you through a window.
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If you disagree so much why don't you explain why?
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jesus christ slingers fine also way to screw over your teamates.
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Maybe instead of giving up anytime you face a strong killer, you play the game out and you might learn how to better deal with them.
I get that both Deathslinger and Spirit are hard killers to play against, but don't have absolutely no counterplay. You can still find ways to drag out a chase against both of them and give your team time to do the objective.
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me disagreeing or not is completely irrelevant...
your logic is flawed.
"if she has counter play then Nurse has counter play" does not, and will never apply
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With both of these killer you're guessing what the killer does and you go down for guessing wrong, or is some cases you're just left with no options at all. Spirit and Nurse play a lot more similarly than people think.
So tell me, how is my logic flawed?
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I don't understand why people think 1v1s need to be nerfed. The game is 1v4. Buy time for your teammates to do gens. That's the point of the game.
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EXACTLY
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Nurse can blink twice in a row, therefore, spirit can phase twice in a row.
Nurse can see survivors while she blinks, therefore, spirit can see survivors while phasing.
Do you really need an explanation on why something applying to a character doesn't mean it applies to another?
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Gotta disagree. You give counterplay to his 1v1 he becomes trash teir. He becomes trickster.
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That’s exactly what I meant when I said it’s complicated to fix him. He’ll need many buffs to compensate to keep him strong but more fun to against. I’m honestly not exactly sure what we could do with him but I don’t mind facing him as much as some other killers and there’s not that many good Deathslingers so I guess it’s not that big of a deal.
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Agreed. Honestly the only way to "fix" him is to completely change his power.
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Deathslinger doesn't need a nerf... Spirit though... She can get deleted for all I care.. She is not fun to play against.. I lose all morale as soon as I see a decent Spirit, which is 80% of them, because she is too easy to get a 4k (I do it all the time) with if you have half a brain... You don't even need Stridor for her to stomp most Survivors groups..
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Its not a bait but you enjoy playing against nurse? Ok dude sure. Maybe start playing the game instead of giving up on hook. Your teammates will be happier
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None of them need a nerf. I don't even play those 2 killers that much but I have enough experience with those 2 killers AND survivors to have a better and more fun time than most. Try playing as them a bit and learn how they play and it'll help you go against them as well.
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Deathslinger does not need a nerf, He's fine as he is. But Spirit, on the other hand, does.
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Here's my suggestion:
Deathslinger can no longer instantly ads and has a clear wind up for survivors to see. He now has a cancel animation like Huntress.
Deathslinger can now use a sidearm grapple to shoot terrain and drag himself too it.
He's now weaker 1v1 and stronger 1v4.
Best of both worlds imo.
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So you constantly 4k as Deathslinger without having a try? How you manage to do it in time? Are you using 4 slowdown perks?
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I think only Spirit needs a nerf. I would love to see a Deathslinger nerf, but that's only because I really hate him, and not because he needs one.
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Instead of giving up on hook and screwing your team I'd suggest playing as those killers, get good as them. The longer you play them against a wide variety of Survivors you'll be able to see where their weaknesses are.
For example, I couldn't do anything against Hag until I became a Hag main and got experience from how I was being outplayed.
I'm atrocious with Spirit and literally only play her for Dailies and for her Tome but during that time I learned how to be unpredictable when playing against her. How to fake a loop, when and where to hide, when to walk instead of run, and most importantly to stay healthy as much as possible against her.
I do alright as Slinger but he faces part of the same issue Trickster does. If you split up and hammer out gens you'll have the gates open before he can get multiple people on death hook. He really only excels in the 1v1 and many matches even that can be very map dependent. Pallets destroy his 1v1 in many cases unless it's a very unsafe pallet anyway.
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Deathslinger is perfectly balanced. He’s supposed to destroy you 1vs1, especially vs. lower skilled survivors. This is compensated for by his lack of map pressure.
My advice would be, instead of submitting yourself to the deathslinger and killing yourself on hook for him, try to take a look at what you are doing wrong and make adjustments accordingly.
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