Wraith the New & Improved Spirit?
I want to preface this post with the fact that I'm not moaning and groaning, nor screaming the Wraith is OP. I'm just having a hard time seeing Wraith as anything other a new and improved Spirit. He moves almost as fast as her, never loses sight of targets, comes out of cloak with a fast, impressive rundown. He literally has all her high mobility benefits and none of her drawbacks. The methods I use to counter him are now pretty much the same as the ones I use against Spirit. I mean, what am I missing?
Comments
-
spirit has really no counter, with rain what he loses that it takes a whole to unlock, you can be seen while clocked, and his bell tells you when hes uncloaking, with spirit you have none of those
6 -
In addition to what Illiterate said, it's worth noting that Wraith not having a passive phasing animation makes him easier to read than spirit too. Even while cloaked, his shimmer is fairly visible up close if he's moving. I don't think Wraith is even on the same tier as Spirit in his current state.
3 -
I beg to disagree. I played a lot this weekend and watched Wraiths in Purple and Green tear Red Rank teams apart.
1 -
You also have to realized very few people played wraith before the buff and thus very few survivors actually have experience against good Wraiths.
Wraith is currently the "Flavor of the Month" killer so I give it 2-3 weeks and everyone will have stopped talking about Wraith again.
Much like they already have stopped talking about Demo being supposedly OP with Demo's add-on rework.
7 -
He's obviously powerful now. People are just trying to downplay his strength because they don't want him nerfed.
4 -
Wraith's power is unchanged and in fact with his best add-ons he was EVEN BETTER BEFORE THE CHANGE!
He had the same speed with add-ons but the add-ons never actually had a downside(The Value at all tiers was set to zero).
So not only was he as fast with as many strong add-ons he was even faster uncloaking then he is now.
Ps. Before you talk about the post stealth lunge: Its completely unchanged from the previous wraith to the current one.
6 -
Ehh... I'd say he's the poor man's Spirit.
Wraith players are respectable tho.
8 -
He's still powerful, not saying a nerf is warranted but it's so transparent to see that people that enjoy him are downplaying his strength to hopefully avoid a potential nerf.
1 -
People really aren't underplaying him its just the fact he's always been like this and its an issue now?
I mean wraith has been like this for around two years and people are only complaining about him because he's the current "Flavor of the Month" killer.
Also please keep the conspiracies theories to yourself as no one is intentionally underplaying him. Heck Wraith's supporters have been trying to tell people he's underrated for a LONG time now.
4 -
No, I think I'll speak my mind.
Other killers simply outshined him throughout that time and for whatever reason he's the center of attention now.
1 -
Couple things Moundshroud that make him worse than spirit:
Spirit leaves no trace in phase - zero audio/visual cues for survivor. Wraith has directional audio and can be seen cloaked moving slower than Spirit too.
Spirit can swing immediately out of phase. Wraith cannot do this. This gives time for survivors to react. If Wraith wants to camp cloaked, survivors can infinitely window vault. Spirit circumvents this completely because again no audio/visual codes for survivor.
Here's one advantage that Wraih has over Spirit now since his buff:
Wraith gets an extra quarter second of sprint coming out of cloak with zero cooldown. He is guaranteed a hit at any unsafe structure now regardless of survivor input because his sprint covers the distance to either side before you can make a vault. This is the reason he is getting a lot of heat lately. He has hit pressure everywhere except safe loops and strong tiles.
Spirit again circumvents all mechanics at every tile but isn't guaranteed the hit like Wraith now is at unsafe structures.
Understand shroudy that this is strictly good killer vs. good survivor gameplay. Spirit is far superior in chase.
1 -
The only issue I have with Wraith rn is his lunge length when coming out of cloak. The fact that he can easily body block AND have that lunge radius seems a bit much. There's just too many gens/angles that Wraith can easily block while having angles that he can easily get a hit. Add that with speed add ons and wall hacks? It can be difficult. Granted, I haven't had enough interaction with Wraiths not using addons to get a good idea of what he can do basekit.
3 -
I don't think Wraith is on the same level as Spirit. Wraith has more counters than Spirit and he isn't unpredictable like Spirit is.
4 -
If its not a unsafe pallet its a lot easier to loop a wraith then a spirit. So wraith lacks the one thing that makes spirit strong. She can ignore pallets.
1 -
Cmon....
Spirit at basekit is stronger than Wraith even with his strongest add-ons.
Don't get me wrong, Wraith is definitely a good killer, but he is ultimately still a loopable M1 killer.
Spirit ignores most of the looping mechanics with her base power.
3 -
"Is wraith the new and improved spirit?"
No.
3 -
Wraith is harder to play as than Spirit, because you have to time when you uncloak correctly against a good survivor that knows when to vault windows etc.
0 -
I still use windstorm add on when playing him, even with speed buff its not enough for me to zoom around the map.
He might be a bit better to play, maybe even B tier since he has some strong add ons.
But he has nothing on Spirit. Nothing
3 -
Wraith has his bing bong.
Spirit has no animations or sound queues or tell she's using her power at all.
Wraith moves at 6m/s (150%)
Spirit can get up to something stupid that's over 200% when using MDR.
They're not comparable. Spirit is still literally bordering Nurse for the title of best dbd killer. I wouldn't place Wraith above Blight.
2 -
True, but I don't think one should underestimate the value of never losing sight of the quarry. The speed difference, as far as I'm concerned, is nominal because both allow one to cross any map in record time. The Wraith isn't limited by how long he can remained in high speed mode while the Spirit does it in bursts. Right now, perhaps it is due to more practice against the Spirit, I would rather face her than a Wraith any match. I have a far better record as a Survivor against Spirit.
The Wraith isn't under any kind of pressure, no ticking clock. He simply keeps moving at high speed until his quarry in on lock and moves in. I can deceive and evade (stealth mode) a Spirit, but a good Wraith will find who he is looking for every time. Again, I'm not complaining about Wraith being overpowered, but I just don't see a fundamental difference between the two Killers in how they operate overall. In fact, I think overall the Wraith will be more consistent. I'll be interested in seeing the metrics in a few months.
0 -
Even if you disregard the superior lethality of spirits power, wraith is literally hard countered by flashlights, windows and your ears. He's not even truly invisible.....
4 -
the post stealth lunge is 100% changed. having played wraith frequently before and after the buff, there is a very significant difference in what you can do with the lunge.
being invisible from range is a huge benefit
and having windstorm basekit is huge for running other addons.
you are correct, the old windstorm addons actually had no downside despite one being listed, but old wraith, with addons, was NOT better than current wraith. current wraith's lunge and ranged invisibility was massive for him, and the fact that he can run other strong addon combos without windstorm makes him even better. that slight uncloak speed nerf that they gave him literally means nothing dude.
1 -
They aren't even close. Wraiths counter is predropping weak pallets so that he can't take control (same as agasint Pig) and otherwise playing normally. Spirit doesn't have a counter because you cannot tell what she is ever doing and she moves much faster than wraith.
1 -
Hrm. You all have spoken, and I am clearly in the minority here. I don't really see any difference in application. I will defer to the majority opinion then. I'm still going to be very interested in seeing the metrics in a few months.
0 -
It's strange to me. I see so many people that say spirit has no counters. This isn't true. She has a visual cue when she goes invisible. Her husk is left behind. When i see that i move slightly out of the way and sneak. Works for me more times then not. *shrugs*
0 -
Well it works for me even against red ranked spirits. So no what I'm doing isn't terrible. Because it's working. I haven't begun to see what perks would also help me yet. I haven't needed extra help from perks so far. Just because something dosen't work for you dosen't justify dismissing it. Learn, adapt, grow.
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
Considering the fact that you can see Wraith, no.
2 -
no, hes not even near spirit in levels of strength or unfun mechanics
4 -
I honestly wouldn't mind buffing Killers like Wraith up to A or S Tier, if they would just give survivors in game comms.
I always stuggled against Wraith, even before the buff. Idk what it is, my sight is pretty good but, I lose him. Now he moves so fast, I can't keep track to Lightburn, ( I have gotten a couple ).
Before, if you played close attention you could catch his shimmer from a distance. Now I have no chance to catch the shimmer before he is on top of me.
Toss in All Seeing Eye for over kill.
1 -
Wraith is on the same level of pre-nerfed Freddy now. Noone considered Freddy an S-tier killer unlike Nurse or Spirit, but on average Freddy had a much higher kill rate than any other killer in the game just because he was braindead easy to play and had a variety of advantages at the same time i.e. teleporting for high mobility, map pressure and gen protection and anti looping snares or fake pallets.
New wraith is literally the same. He has one of the highest mobility among all killers and his uncloak lunge with 1.25 seconds of 150% movement speed makes almost all pallets unsafe. Combined with stealth abilites and a very low skill ceiling makes him one of the best killers against average survivor teams.
I'm pretty sure his kill rate is above of nurse and spirit now.
0 -
I hardly think it's worth comparing. Spirit is a quintesential anti - loop killer. Wraith is about the hit and run. You slap on the Sloppy Butcher add-on and whatever else you prefer, get hits at gens MAAAAAYBE chase if the gen is in a dead zone, hunt survivors trying to heal back up. Spirit is all about the chase, the last thing Wraith wants to do is chase.
Funnily i'd call him a better Legion of all things.... keep everyone injured at all times, look for 1 hit downs.
PS: Also the WallHack + Silent bell addon on an indoor map is an evil so pure it'd make the entity weep....
0 -
Not just on indoor maps. Wraith' high mobility and his uncloak lunge makes him literally unbeatable on shelter woods too.
The game still can't even handle his speed boost. Its always like a lag and the next frame I got hit already. This is dumb.
0 -
He's not THAT good.
0 -
Go and play solo queue for some days.
You will see that wraiths 4 k most of the time. I even see more Spirits ending with 0 or just 1 k than Wraith.
0 -
I tried Spirit the other day and honestly couldn't find anybody at first. Wraith with wall hack is easy and I don't have to keep waiting for phase walk to recharge. So I can see why Wraith could perform better than Spirit in some ways.
0 -
I have only played Wraith with boneclapper, and yellow windstorm & swift hunt and I still believe he is A-tier now. That being said I don't believe that is a bad thing that's what people wanted was stronger killers and who better to be a bit stronger than wraith? He is not stronger than Spirit, Nurse, Blight. Honestly I do think he's up there around/Between/Ahead/whatever Billy, Oni, PH, Fred. Just my opinion based of my plays with him and the old plays. He was the first killer I mained before I spent money on the game.
0 -
You are missing experience. The counterplay for wraith vs spirit is very different. Also their powers are very different. Wraith basically only got a purple windstorm in his last buff. It is very strong, but wraith is nowhere near what spirit can be, as far as kill potential. You can see wraith, lightburn him, play pallets and loops well, and map knowledge can counter him or at least keep him busy. This is much less true for spirit, where she is completely invisible and there can be no indication she is there. When you play more high level spirits, you will see that we can catch you inside the terror radius so you dont hear the power and it will get even more terrifying.
I hate to see wraith because people seem to have forgotten or never learned his counters.... but it will improve with time. This is from a solo survivor queue perspective. I do not play either of them because I am trying to improve with other killers, but I prob get 3-4k 75% of the time with wraith... and 95% of the time with spirit.
1 -
Played another Wraith match today. Green, purple and red ranks. He decimated us all at level 13. So, I mean, yeah. This nonsense about him being "merely okay" and not being noticeably better (cheaper) than he was before continues to NOT be the case whenever I see him in a match.
0 -
Ok see now I'm confused. I'm able to survive against spirit but the killer's player isn't good enough as spirit for me suriving to count as a way to surive spirit? That dosen't make sense. Why is it when people talk about how they successfully survive a killer other people feel the need to downplay that person's experiences? It sounds like to me a whole bunch of people who refuse to learn a new way to survive agaisnt a killer. Just because someone can't do something dosen't mean other people can't. That's ok.
0 -
He is definitely overpowered. This is how wraith plays:
- Uncloak near survivor for a gigantic lunge (free hit)
- Survivor starts sprinting away.
- Wraith cloaks and gets on survivor tail in only a few seconds. (Moves too fast)
- Wraith uncloaks for a free down.
It's ridiculous. And what if he has the wallhacks addon??
0
