Why Survivors can't have in-built Totem Counter?
If Totems is the Survivors' side Objective - let them know how many Totems they need to cleanse.
Why Survivors have to run the one perk (Small Game) to know how many totems were cleansed? It doesn't make any sense.
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Why should they have that information for free? A side objective is not a good excuse for knowing exactly how many totems have been cleansed without a perk.
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Because... Totems is the side objective? no?
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Generators make a lot of noise when they're repaired, so it makes sense that you keep track of them. Totems are quietly cleansed, without a notification, so it makes sense that you need something more to keep track of how many have been cleansed.
Alternatively, you could have all totems make a loud noise upon being cleansed. I'd certainly support the idea to make the counter built-in.
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Totem spawns are already horrible and people still want more counters to it.
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Don;t you want Survivors be more interested in cleansing Dull Totems and spending more time off-gens?
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Survivors already get 1000 BP for cleansing Dull Totems, in addition to helping prevent NOED, and that's for 14 seconds of holding M1. It's got one of the highest BP per second ratio.
Do you know what the Small Game counter revealed? Nobody cleanses any totems. It's why SWF almost always knows exactly how many totems remain, because they're the only ones doing it.
I'll say again: you get 1000 BP for 14 seconds of holding M1. Not even generators (the main objective) give that much BP in so little time.
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I usually cleanse totems, its fun for me. But when I play killer its very risky to use hex perks because not only good survivors already know totem spawns on every map, but sometimes the totem spawns right in the open like a lighthouse to be cleansed.
Extra time off gens for cleansing is good, but not at the cost of me losing perk slot in less than 2 minutes into the match.
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Cleansing Totems and Fun are antonyms you know? You don't even have Skill Checks while cleansing them.
Also, Hexes are supposed to be high risk and high reward perks, not something to rely 100% of the time
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I know, many people don't think its fun but it is for me. I like being chased, heal others, going for saves and cleanse totems. Basically anything that doesn't make me spent 80% doing gens entire match.
And yes, hex perks should be high risk high reward, but I am saying they are already high risk as it is, without totem counter as basekit for survivors
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Why Totem Counter basekit is good is because it reduces the gap between Solo and SWF teams. SWF have way more information than solos do, and reducing the gap between them and solo followed by buffs for Killers would make the game more healthy and fair for everyone
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The only way SWF could know how many totems have been cleansed is if solo survivors never cleansed any totems.
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What have you just said?
SWF can know how many totems were cleansed only because Solo Survivors never cleanse totems themselves? What? I don't see causal relationship in your wording
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I give you a better question:
Why can't killers see the wiggle progress bar? It's directly bound to the killers objective and several perks affect the progress.
Yet there is no visual indication on how much progress the survivor has left, before he breaks free.
Just be grateful that survivors get priority when it's about information related stuff and take small game if you want to know the exact amount.
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A 2-man SWF knows one of them cleansed one totem and the other cleansed two totems. They now know there are still three totems on the map.
The question is, how do they know this? SWF doesn't give you a totem counter like Small Game. SWF doesn't receive a notification when totems are cleansed.
They know this because they know, with nearly 100% certainty, that no other survivors have cleansed any totems, because survivors refuse to cleanse totems.
So if you say SWF has a totem counter, it's only because other survivors never bother to cleanse totems.
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"Just". A nice word indicating one's lack of empathy for the other side.
I agree Killers need to know how much wiggle progress Survivors have btw.
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While others disagree, I'd love this to reduce the gap between swf and solo survivor.
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You are so wrong.
How do the swf members ever know if the solos don;t have totem challenge for instance? or if they just like cleansing totems? Your expression lacks too many variables.
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How do the swf members ever know if the solos don;t have totem challenge for instance?
They don't. However, that example isn't hypothetical, it's literally what happens with my 2-man SWF. Nearly every single time, we're the only ones bothering to cleanse totems.
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Maybe it's a language thing, but I don't lack empathy for the other side. That's why I asked the wiggle progress thing. Oh and I play more survivor than killer.
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Because SWF get that information for free and the game hasn't been balanced around solo que for years.
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I agree to an extent.
However we need to make solos and all SWFs less than 4man up to the standards of 4man SWFs so that killers can be balanced around an even playing field.
A totem counter is one way of doing this, though also having a noise notification would work too. Because right now a coordinated 4man gets the effects of aftercare, alert, bond, empathy, kindred, parts of object and small game, without needing to use a perk. Solos have to use these perks, alongside about 13 other ones, just to get the same information that a 4man has base kit.
You know why nobody cleanses totems in solo? Because it's a waste of time. The initial 14 seconds is not, no, however every other survivor who searches for totems will waste time if they search in that area. But they don't know if the totem in that area has been found and cleansed or not unless they use Detective's while a 4man would just say "Oh hey I cleansed Shack totem".
So give an indication for totems, either in the form of a counter or a notification or something, at base kit. Why? Because solos shouldn't have to use perks, items, or add-ons to get the same information SWF get for free. And once they have this information, killers and their mechanics can be buffed accordingly, such as Blindness receiving a total overhaul and totem spawns being superbuffed.
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Absolutely go for it and give killers more information, you can already guess how far along the bar is based on how long they've been on your shoulder (takes 12 seconds to wiggle). But do it to compensate for solos and 2/3man SWFs getting stronger with more information to match 4man SWFs.
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Hello son, the information overload is the wrong direction. Because it also buffs SWF.
A better approach would be to give the game inbuilt voice chat and balance around it.
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Hello again dad.
I don't see how a basekit totem counter would buff swf, when they can already tell the other people in their squad "Shack totem cleansed"/"I did one by the Jungle Gym at Main Building"/"One's done by the water tower"/"Killer is chasing me through an L-T wall near the middle, there's a hex here" etc.
I don't see how giving aura reading (again with reworked blindness) would buff SWFs when they can just say where they are.
Also, in-built voice chat is really anti-accessibility. Some people are mute, or voluntarily mute, some don't have mics (like me for the first 2 years playing this game), not everyone speaks the same language (and I know I don't wanna be the one solo in a squad of 3 Italians, for example- nothing against Italians I just don't speak your language), etc. After taking several steps to improve accessibility, like changing struggle and colourblind settings and the new wiggle changes we might see, it'd be a massive step backwards.
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You know if your cursed
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Dull totems, bestie, we're on about dull totems.
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I don't think we need a Totem counter, but once ALL Totems are cleared there should be a special sound/animation. :) But I do believe Small Game should get a counter that shows how many are left.
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Back when I started playing the game (3000 years ago). Survivors had to pay attention to the game. We had no indicators of perks affecting us. We didn't knew if we were exposed, etc.
Now we even see when passives affect us. Undying in the match and close to a totem? Let's get a notification.
I honestly think there is to much information in that regard and all the tools help SWF so they don't have to keep track and can focus on important stuff like spamming CTRL.
Language barriers could be overcome by having a language filter during matchmaking.
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Just for context, we're talking essentially about dull totems, because hexes give a mapwide notification anyway when cleansed.
And if we're talking about dulls, we're talking basically about NOED and tangentially about stuff like Undying or Thrill.
Now, the power of NOED is twofold. There's the obvious snowball potential in the endgame. But it's also a slowdown perk in disguise, in the sense that it takes survivors off gens as a preemptive counter. This slowdown effect is exponentially stronger against solos, who don't only know how many totems are left, but they're also susceptible to duplicate efforts when searching areas that have already been checked. Basically, massive inefficiency.
As it stands now, totems as a side objective for a solo mean running around as a headless chicken wasting massive amounts of time. Free pressure. Or using a perk slot, with no guarantee that someone else uses it as well (solos don't know their teammates perks) and even then, they'll still check areas that have already been cleared.
A basekit counter would at least make it so that solos stopped looking for totems once they're all gone and maybe push them off gens if they see they're falling back on cleansing. The latter would even benefit the killer. They would still be massively inefficient in searching and nowhere near SWF level. For these reasons, I'd label a basekit totem counter as a small buff, more for QoL purposes.
Why don't we have that then? Because the reality is that if you use NOED, you don't want it pre-cleansed. You want survivors to run around aimlessly wasting as much time as possible and then you want NOED to always proc when push comes to shove. Which will happen if you miss even one totem. So, then you can just say "do bones". Which kinda sounds like "just apply pressure to gens" to my ears. But I digress.
Maybe we can ask @Almo as head of the balance team and a fervid NOED user why a totem counter was added to a perk instead of the new Hud, essentially neglecting all solos once again. What do the numbers tell us?
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I don't think people are asking for counters to totems as in what can counter them, but a count of how many totems remain.
It's a definite QoL thing that I do think should be implemented - it's something that SWF teams get for free and it would level the playing field that tiny bit.
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There were great idea for remanining totems counter as a basement shrine with 5 candles, one lit for every totem remaining in game. Would it be free information? Not really, every time survivor wants to know how many totems there are, he would have to waste time to get to the basement.
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Oh 10 4
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