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Scott Jund - "The game is balanced around Game Delaying Perks" Yay or Nay?
Scott Jund - "The game is balanced around Game Delaying Perks" Yay or Nay? 56 votes
Comments
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Without a doubt yes
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No the game is balanced around casuals which makes 100% sense. Since they are the majority.
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Scott addresses this a little bit in his video when he talks about how even against casuals if you're on a map like The Game and they have half a brain to stay spread out, use the resources provided on that map (of which there are many) you're going to still not have the easiest time if you don't have a single slowdown perk in your build, because due to how map RNG works, how certain maps are laid out, player skill becomes less of a factor depending.
I don't think Scott is wrong here, as far as killer perks go slowdown perks and / or perks that give you accurate information to apply pressure in the right places to slow down the game (AKA Surveillance, Discordance, etc.) are some of the most powerful perks killers have access to.
That being said Scott doesn't really answer his own question / proposed problem. It's a short video and it's left fairly open ended for people to continue to discuss, potentially about how to alleviate the issue and how to possibly suggest to combat it.
I think there are a lot of unique ideas out there that can be done, and the way he sets up his concluding thoughts- he makes it seem like it's an almost impossible or insurmountable problem to solve. He could be right, but I'm not completely sure. To me it seems like all that needs to be done, is to make a few changes to the base game, to naturally slow down the pace of the game- give survivors other objectives or incentives or literally anything that isn't flat out extending generator times, and then as the game gets "longer" slowly nerf slowdown perks to compensate.
For example introduce the Trial Warmup, I'm still a strong proponent of this idea and I have no idea why the devs seemingly just dropped the ball after talking about it for a little bit. Introduce the trial warmup, and then say for example nerf ruin by just tweaking some values. And so on and so forth.
It's the exact same methodology that's used to change killers who are too add-on reliant and in those situations, it works. Making an add-on basekit and then reducing the add-ons effectiveness or power itself by tweaking / reducing the values, so that the basekit killer is not left so helpless in a match but the same killer running that add on will get the full benefit that was present before the change.
For example Nemesis, people are talking about his mutation rate and how you need to run mutation rate add-ons over everything else, everything is worthless by comparison. The solution, is to increase his base kit mutation rate so he becomes less reliant on those add-ons and more likely to run other add-ons that might change his gameplay in unique ways, and then nerf the mutation rate add-ons so that everything evens out afterward.
It's the same principle. Make "base-kit" changes to the game to slow things down just a lil bit, and then nerf the "add-ons" (perks) to level everything out.
Just what I'm thinking right now anyway. Scott made it sound like you'd have to overhaul the entire game in order to make it work- not sure if it's all that. Maybe, but it's a give and take, and we won't know for sure if the devs aren't willing to take the first step and introduce things like the Trial Warmup, or anything else for that matter, in a PTB for us to test.
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Look I'm sure they wanna keep the game how it is. Since you got to understand only around 15% Of the base according to steam stats survivors have reached rank 10, so think about that means 85% of the players are casuals. And for killer that have reached rank 10 it's only 9%. So my point being they wanna keep the game as easy as possible since I'm pretty sure 90% of the player base is mostly survivor. Which is why they probably don't wanna add any slowdown mechanism to the gens, or any new game format. And honestly I don't blame them since most of the player base is casual. And lets be honest unless you are using the weakest killers maybe like trickster, and legion you can do alright without slowdown perks. Most can at least get a 2k with other killers that are midrange which is what I feel is balance. Don't go around expecting 4k in every game. Now for us non casual I guess this may feel like an issue since in red ranks survivors play more efficient than casuals, but for most of the base they don't.
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I semi agree with this if matchmaking wasn't a total fustercluck of ... no! Like i wish i could derank and have fun playing killer again and mess around with whatever build cos playing killer at red ranks is just bloody misarable. I tryed a "meme" build without slow down on bubba due to a "kill 10 obsesions" tome (Nemesis, Enduring, Spirit Fury, Bamboozle) and games where basically 5 minutes of chasing followed by 5 minutes of camping (because survivors can't just take a stupidly easy 3 man escape they HAVE to all get away or the sky starts falling.... vs a 1 shot killer) followed by 5 minutes of getting spat on in end-game lobby. Couldn't play it more than 3 games it was that toxic....
According to Steam only 4% of the player base is rank 1, add console wich i think has more players? and that's what ~10%? And even now at red rank it's either - get farmed for 5 minutes by genrusher's or farm some "baby" purple rank survivors. 90% of my 4ks come from overconfident altruism, because i'm not as easily tilted as survivors seem to think killers get and can deal with stuff like flashlights / sabos / bodyblocking. Hell i welcome it, better than chasing for 10 seconds to long and loosing 3 gens over it....
And "Balanced around slow down" perks is abit missleading cos survivors usually arn't bringing any "speed up" perks. That's one of my biggest gripes.... like if i'm forced to bring stuff like Sloppy, Ruin, Pop etc. Survivors should bring stuff like Botany Knowledge.... but no it's just the classic DH UB BT on every single person with a 4th flex slot, some DS, IW, Spinechill and sometimes Prove Thyself or We'll Make It.
Like i can't name a killer confortable NOT bringing Ruin and / or Corrupt and / or Pop. Maaaaaaaybe some snowball killers like Nurse, Spirit or Oni, maybe. But "speed up" perks are 100% optional, a little cherry on top if the survivor is feeling like it wich will push your ######### in hard if you happen to NOT be running slowdown
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It's an unfortunate fact, but the only perks in the entire game that are genuinely necessary are game delay and teammate info.
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That number is inflated by the way, as far as achievements go they aren't exactly the most reliable sources of statistical information. You look even the easiest achievements possible that everyone should have and even those have surprisingly low percentage of players that have achieved them. The achievement Zealous (in a public match, get more than 8k blood points in one scoring category [this is for either killer OR survivor]) is the most universally achieved achievement in Dead By Daylight and still only sits at a grand total of 51% of players have completed it. Every other achievement in the game has a lower global percentage of players who have completed it. Raising your rank for the first time is only at 48% boosting any perk to level 3 is only at 43% and so on and so forth.
Which basically amounts to, not everyone that is buying Dead By Daylight- is playing Dead By Daylight, amongst, likely, some other reasons. Thus you can see how and why these numbers are skewed.
Besides, we also know that rank is not exactly the best measure of player skill, and is more often than not just an indicator of how long you've been playing before rank reset. You can have players that are still garbage all the way up to rank 1 and you can have actually pretty decent players who have never broke rank 10, just because they don't play all that often, they have a job or school, or some other commitments that have kept them from playing Dead By Daylight on a regular basis so they don't really care about rank.
Besides, Scott usually is talking about the game at a standard-to-high-level of play. You don't need to be a "pro dbd gamer" to see why slowdown perks are some of if not the best perks in the game, which are prized for their consistency, for being universally usable on any killer, and for giving the killer the most precious resource they need during the match: which is time.
That being said, that is the way to talk about the game and its balance on a serious level anyway. The fact is, while we cannot disregard the new player experience (as that is critical to a game's growth and longevity) in discussions like this, you're not really drawing from the opinions of fresh players who don't have a lot of experience with the game. New players will have fresh perspectives that we want to hear from about other things, but something as technical as balancing 24 playable killers, their perks which can all be used in conjunction together, 27 playable survivors and their perks, 36 different map locations, items, add-ons, etc. is not something I would expect to get much insight out of.
Put another way, you can't tell me that "there isn't an issue with balancing here" when your overall point is "most of the playerbase is too casual to even CARE whether or not there is a problem here".
At that point, why are you (or the people you're trying to represent) talking about balance in the first place then?
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Standard equals casual. Some killers perform great without slowdowns vs the majority of DBD players. Like I said unless you are using the weakest killers in this game like trickster and trapper. Than yeah those killers it's almost a must to run a slowdown. But for most killers so long as the player has a decent knowledge of how to play the killer they can do well without any slowdowns. Since most killer start without slowdowns anyway. The reason I'm talking about balancing is because this game will never be balanced it will always be survivor sided since it's 4 brains vs 1, well allegedly even thought at times it does not feel like that. And some killers don't need more slowdowns, because if you are 2000 hour spirit running ruin and undying, and tinker and pop goes the weasel like come on that just over doing it. Like all they need to do is buff the real weak killers to bring them to a level were can have a chance vs most teams. And yea this is mostly a high rank issue because most of the player base does not care about slowdowns other than people who are not casuals.
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In its current state 100%
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I think this is a finite gripe about an overall larger issue that is a stale meta with little variation that leads to stale gameplay and obviously people that have thousands of hours are far too efficient in it. Too much cranking out new content, not enough refreshing current meta and reworking iconic killers to bring them up to date or in line with current meta. The trapper is laughable... so is meyers... because the meta has not changed, but perks have gotten stronger, and survivors have gotten better... leaving some behind. Freshness in the meta and updates to the current game are much better than adding killers the community doesnt even like to play (i.e.twins, slinger, tickster) because they are boring or too easily countered.
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