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Are the twins perks any good?
I skipped the twins and waited for the shrine to bring the perks.
Now that hoarder has been added the other two will soon follow.
Are any of them useful or are they all lackluster? If I can remember the only one that stood out to me was oppression but I've only seen it used against me once.
Comments
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Only Coup de Grace is good perk but you can not use this perk on all builds. That will work on some agresive builds. But that perk is also max B-Tier, other 2 perks are trash.
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as i always say, try to play without perks and add ons first, do that for a while and you will appreciate what every perk does, (and yeah stop caring about doing well, its just a game, just try some things and have some fun).
hoarder is preeeetty meh I find
oppression can definitly be a useful suprise for survivors to give away locations
Coup de Grace can be really solid, I just wish it was a tad more controllable so you only use it when you want to, like maybe some visual queue that if you keep pressing m1 after the point it will use up the token but if you let go before it you will just go for a maximum m1 length without using the token, but thats QoL stuff, I think its a pretty good perk.
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Oppression isn't as effective as I would like at high ranks. Survivors are used to hit hard skillcheck—especially before DS got changed. It can take them off guard, but as soon as they know there is Oppression, they won't get surprised twice.
I don't truly know for the two others, I don't think I've seen them outside of people doing their Twins adept. And I too rarely meet Twins...
(I'm saying that as a Survivor point of view, as I rarely play Killer, but I do hope it helps you to make your own opinion about the perk!)
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Hoarder - When you play anti-item build it's nice. Otherwise, on it's own is more meh perk than decent. You don't need it and there are other much better tracking perks. Also, it can spawn good stuff like a key or good med-kit which can backfire you.
Oppression - Is probably their best perk, but whenever I tried to run it, it felt almost useless on it's own since Survivors usualy jump back on their gens. It can give you okay info if they miss the skillcheck, however the biggest problem is the cooldown. 80s is a LOT for such mediocre effect.
Coup the Grâce - Fun and decently powerfull effect, however 5 max. use per game and you can lose stacks by miss hits. If you could have more tokens or if you could lose them only after succesfull hit, it would be better. It's meh perk for me.
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In my opinion they're all pretty mediocre, but not terrible (except coup de grace). Hoarder and oppression are ok I guess, but not worth perk slots when there's so many better alternatives. Coup de grace is absolutely terrible though.
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I've had mild success with Oppression but there are much better perks to use instead.
Coup and hoarder I've not used as they seem rather niche and finite use.
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I enjoy Oppression on occasion. It's honestly still pretty mediocre (the effect isn't strong/consistent enough to justify its long cooldown), but it combo's well with Surveillance. Can also be fun to throw it in with Pop or Surge to really keep all the gens regressing.
I don't really like Coup de Grace or Hoarder all that much. Though I suppose that Coup could be pretty funny on any killer who can get a large lunge going (like Myers, Wraith, or Spirit).
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Twin perk are awful and hoarder is the worst of the bunch. If i were you i would skip that shrine and wait for something you need
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Hoarder's only use is to pair it with Franklins, play Hag or Trapper, and become the consummate item thief; otherwise it's pure garbage. Oppression is nice, but the cooldown is way too long to be competitively viable with similar perks. Coup can net you some surprise hits, but has pretty limited use and it's easy to waste tokens by accident or by not properly judging the reach of your extended lunge, which isn't intuitive for obvious reasons.
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Coup De Grace is the only one you'll really get any value out of by itself, but even then if you have a token you can not lunge whatsoever, because a single lunge will remove one of your five precious tokens, regardless of if it hits or misses
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Ok so nothing too crazy then but I'm willing to try them out.
I do actually have almost all killer perks except for a couple niche ones. There is also trickster but I'm saving my bloodpoints for nemesis.
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Not really. Their perks are only useful in meme builds.
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Hoarder: Trash.
Oppression: Another good design with a huge cooldown, can be ok with surveillance.
Coup the grâce: Can be used 5 times and you can easily waste your stacks.
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I like Oppression. Not only can it give you location of Survivors, but it can also start regression on abandoned gens. It's not super strong though, but I do use it here and there. Get the most use out of it on Twins though.
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Hoarder- There's no reason to use this when franklins exists, plus why is the killer giving the survivors 2 additional chests? The perk might have been the cause of item rarity being broken for a time. It used to decrease item rarity for the items in the chests but that part seems to have been removed.
Oppression - Could be good if it didn't have such a long cooldown, I get that its to stop it from being spammed but why take it when i could take any other perk that helps with gen regression.
Coup de Grâce- The reward for letting gens get done is a slightly increased lunge up to a max of 5 times...as a killer you want perks to help you stop gens from being done.
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sure!
you have one that straight up buffs Survivors (Hoarder), one that is 100% RNG with a 50 hour cooldown (Oppression) and one that is super hard to get, immensly underwhelming, while also being extremely easily wasted on accident (Coup de Grace)!
in terms of Perk vaule the Twins are, in my humble opinion, the worst Killer in the game. Even Huntress has better Perks and that says a LOT.
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Hoarder is nice with franklin on Nemesis. Other than that - nothing is really good
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Dude, Twins perks are way more useful than huntresses!
Beast of Prey and Territorial Imperative both do literally nothing for you in 9 out of 10 matches. And the one time it does have an effect, its not even great. Huntress Lullaby is one of the weakest hex perks. It might be useful with 4 or 5 stacks, but then it's usually gone. Apart from "impossible skillcheck" builds, Huntress Lullaby has no purpose. And even in this sort of builds, it's just icing on the cake, and easily replacable with better perks.
On the other hand, Coup even when just working once can give you a surprise hit or down. That alone makes it leagues better than Beast of Prey and Territorial Combined. Oppresion works really well together with Pop and Surveillance, and esp. shines in protecting a 3 gen. It's not just about the difficult skill check, it saves time bc you do not need to kick the gens yourself. I played all my matches with P0 Twins with it, bc I did not have better slowdown perks, and it allowed my to prevent or at least delay the completion of the last gen(s) multiple times. Hoarder is the weakest of Twins perks, but again can result in some suprise hits or downs, bc survivors won't expect it.
Overall, we have two trash and one underwhelming perk for huntress, and two ok and one underwhelming perks for Twins. Sure Twins perks are not great, but saying they are even worse than Huntresses, that's just so wrong.
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People undervalue Beast of Prey. Sure, it's not the best perk, but you get level one of Bloodlust pretty fast, relatively speaking. Moving 5% faster AND having no red stain during a chase can actually lead to hits you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I'd take it over Hoarder, and at least it's consistent, unlike Coup de Grace.
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Oppression needs to have a bonus regression speed to it. It's worthless as it stands at high ranks.
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i wont deny there are scenarios where Coup can come in clutch.
but do you know what leads up to exactly this one specific scenario?
first of all, you lost gens - thats never a good thing in the first place. secondly you have been actively avoiding to perform any form of lunge attacks in any of your previous chases to not accidentally lose your precious Coup token, which at the very least made chases take longer for you to win and in the worst case cost you a multitude of possible downs that you didnt want to take in order to not waste your Coup.
and then they also went ahead and nerfed its range, great. so the ONE upside it had is now also severely worse than before.
this perk is not "okay", this perk is straight up trash. The benefit of it gets outweight heavily by all the downsides and requirements.
Hoarder also isnt "underwhelming" - its probaply the worst Killer Perk in this entire game right now. You literally just spawn two bonus chests for Survivors to loot items they can use throughout the trial from and the only upside is that, IF you are close enough, you get told they do so.
Oppression is one of those Perks that COULD be good, but just end up being bad thanks to the unnecessary restrictions on it. it has way too long of a cooldown plus is extremely RNG reliant due to the random choosing of the 3 affected Perks. Its not horrible, but it gets outshined by pretty much all of the "combination Perks" you listed above.
the verdict for Twins: two absolutely horrid Perks and one okay one.
for Huntress it is quite similar though.
Beast of Prey is very underwhelming in its effects. However, at the very least it rewards you with bonus BP and does not inflict you with a downside that actively hinders you, unlike Coup or Hoarder. that alone makes it better than those two.
Territorial Imperative is one of those Perks that are just going to be dead throughout the entire trial, so once again a very useless Perk, I'll agree with you there. However, once again, at the very least it does not actively hinder you in your game, so that makes it better than at least Hoarder. Coup still has the benefit of saying "but if you get in this one in a hundred scenario where you can properly use it, it comes in clutch!", which Territorial doesnt really have (unless you're a Bubba sitting at exactly 32m from the basement), so those two would be kind of even.
now for Hex: Huntress Lullaby, you are right its a rather underwhelming Hex Perk. However, that doesnt mean it would be a weak Perk. The 6% bonus regression on missed Skillchecks can be huge, especially on Killers like Doctor or in combination with other Perks that make Skillchecks harder to hit, and the audio cue removal can make the Perk quite powerfull against People who might not be very concentrated on the gen aswell as force them to concentrate on their generator more than usual, meaning they become more oblivious to ambush attacks from stealth Killers. Its by no means an amazing Perk, but it certainly is better than Oppression is.
the verdict for Huntress: one useless Perk, one severely underwhelming one and one decent Perk.
it might not be by much, but Huntresses Perks are definitely better than the Twins.
at the very least none of Huntresses Perks have a negative influence over the trial for the Killer, which is the case for two of the Twins Perks.
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Here's my thoughts:
Oppression - It's decent, but the Cooldown is too long for you to get much use and the skill checks can be easily hit if you're up against good survivors. However it can be quite good when combo'd with pop or dragons.
Usage: 1.5/3
Usefulness: 2/4
Cooldown/drawback: 2/3
Total = 5.5/10
Coup de Grace - It's quite good. You can catch survivors at strong loops. It confuses them as hardly anyone runs it. However the fact you have only a maximum of 5 tokens and that you have to have gens done to get stacks make it risky. Including the fact that you cannot lunge if you want to save your stacks, which is very inconvenient.
Usage: 1/3
Usefulness: 3/4
Cooldown/drawback: 2/3
Total = 6/10
Hoarder - It is never used which makes it really good to catch survivors off guard. Provides tracking ability which is nice. Paired very good with Franklin's when picking up items. However its range is not great (64 meters tier 3) making you miss value. Including the fact that you're giving survivors chests which makes it high risk but not great reward.
Usage: 2/3
Usefulness: 2.5/4
Cooldown/drawback: 1/3
Total: 5.5/10
Hope this helps! Remember this is just my thoughts.
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Coup de Grace could help with end game builds as you'll have 5 super lunges at the end. You could pair it with NOED. Im not a fan tbh.
Oppression I was excited for. I used to get value at lower ranks, especially with PGTW. But, these mid-higher ranks are used to hitting skill checks. You could pair it with Doctor to have a tremendously difficult backwards skill check, but even then they do get hit. I do find Oppression strong on 3 gens. You pop any gen and the other 2 start regressing. With Twins they can guard 2/3 gens and cause a stalemate at the end.
Hoarder is me, but can be a good info perk. Pair it with Franklin's Demise at hit a person with a key and hoarder still goes off. I think you can even run it with Trapper/Hag and really mess with people, especially at higher ranks.
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oppresion is aight, coup is a meme, and her last perk hoarder I think is straight up garbage since its original intention had to be scraped after they tried it and it just didn't work so its half the perk it used to be and the original wasn't even that good either so its half an alright perk.
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Oppression is good. It is by far the best gen regression perk that does not require a down or a Hex perk. So if that's the sort of perk you're looking for, it is quite literally your best option.
Coup De Grace is... it is workable on Killers who insta down off M1's or *sort of* insta down on them. So... Myers in Tier 3 with Coup stacks is super scary. Ghostface marks you with Coup stacks? Also scary. The *sort of* refers to Killers who down with M1's but get really easy injuries with their power. Essentially Plague and Legion can also use it because they can get everybody injured with their power then use Coup to get their downs. I wouldn't bother on anyone else though.
Hoarder... Honestly, I've not tried it. I am fairly certain it isn't really good, but it's less terrible than some people are saying. Something to consider, unlocking a chest takes 10 seconds. There's a decent amount of items in the game that won't recoup that time investment and a few will even encourage the Survivors to waste more time. Brown Toolboxes return 8 seconds. Green Keys are flat out useless. Green Maps aren't much better. Any variety of Flashlight can encourage Survivors to go for flashlight saves and waste time that way (if you're good at avoiding them that is). Them getting any variety of Medkit isn't good but not the worst. However... this perk can absolutely wreck you if the Survivors get lucky with good Toolboxes, good medkits or even purple/pink keys. Honestly I think I need to give it a try.
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I tend to leave Hoarder on Twins simply due to the fact that Twins (namely Victor) are the only ones with both the speed and the stealth to enact on the information provided. It’s allowed for some very easy pounce attacks simply because most survivors rarely expect to be ambushed at a chest.
Yeah it’s crappy they still haven’t fixed the perk to also reduce item rarity, but if I’m getting free hits/downs, I’m ok still using the perk (only on Twins).
Paired with Franklin’s (or Spinning Top), Hoarder gives a lot of reliable tracking information.
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Where the hell is Beast of Prey consistent? You have no real control when Bloodlust kicks in or when it activates, other than chasing for some time. You have to be lucky to get it activating in a loop where hiding your red stains helps. And you could do the same by just moonwalking. It's a straightout bad perk, bc you have to play "bad" (aka getting Bloodlust) to get any effect. And it only helps for mindgames, it does nothing for you when the survivor you are chasing sees you all the time. Also, when they know you got undetectable, they will play it more safe if possible.
Compared to that, Coup is way more consistent, bc you decide when to trigger it (apart from being unlucky when lunging whilke a gen gets done). You have the total control when to use it, if you are mindful of your lunge attacks. With some practice, you will get some surprise hits with nearly every stack. And compared to Beast of Prey, you can use it in every loop, regardless if the survivor sees you or not. If you can time it right, there's nothing a survivor can do to prevent the hit. Sure, gens need to be done in order for you to get stacks. but that will happen in the majority of the games, its rare to 4k with 5 gens remaining (and then you did not need coup at all). You will get 2-3 stacks in nearly every game, more if you are performing bad. Its up to you to use them in the right moment to get value out of it. Compared to that, You wouldn't get so much more Beast of Prey acrtivations in the same time frame (of course if you are chasing badly, it would be more), with hardly any situation where it really helps you, since you have no immidiate control over it.
If Beast of Prey would be changed to have its Undetecable Effect being triggered voluntarily (by pressing a button), maybe after chasing survivors for 30 seconds or something, then I would consider it being better than Coup. But as of now, it's one of the worst perks in the game, only slightly better than such jewels like Predator and Monstrous Shrine. Coup is by no means great, but significantly more useful than Beast of Prey, imo.
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"i wont deny there are scenarios where Coup can come in clutch."
Yes, a thing you cannot say about Beast of Prey (theoretically it might as well, but the stars havbe to allign right to do so) or Territorial. Maybe for Lullaby, but thats also questionable since it will not live long enough to torture survivors with it's no-warning skill checks (also thats just RNG).
"first of all, you lost gens - thats never a good thing in the first place."
Yes, and that will happen in nearly every game, even when winning. It's occasionally rare to 4k with no gens being done. Even when dominating hard, you will lose 1-2 gens easily, giving you the same number of coup stacks.
"secondly you have been actively avoiding to perform any form of lunge attacks in any of your previous chases to not accidentally lose your precious Coup token, which at the very least made chases take longer for you to win and in the worst case cost you a multitude of possible downs that you didnt want to take in order to not waste your Coup."
Avoiding a lunge is not that hard, just wait half a second longer until hitting. There's usually enough time to do so. If not, sure use the token to hit where you would have hit with a normal lunge. Better waste a token than not hit anyone bc you want to keep it. You just have to play it right, than there won't be a downside. Sure that might waste each and every token if you are unlucky, which makes you whole perk be wasted (so like a ruin being found right at the start of the trial). But i'd argue that won't happen often, esp. when you have some experienve with it.
"this perk is not "okay", this perk is straight up trash. The benefit of it gets outweight heavily by all the downsides and requirements."
Like i said, If you do not play to defensively with it, there is no downside. The downside comes with playing the perk wrong. The requirements are easy to meet (some gens will always get done, and if not, you do not need coup at all).
"Hoarder also isnt "underwhelming" - its probaply the worst Killer Perk in this entire game right now. You literally just spawn two bonus chests for Survivors to loot items they can use throughout the trial from and the only upside is that, IF you are close enough, you get told they do so."
And still it's better than territorial. Both perks are not expected by survivors, which is good. But territorial can easily be missed, the audio cue is just to miniscule. Or the perk does not activate bc you are still to near to the basement. Hoarder can also tell you when someone is in the basement (opening a chest). When I played Twins for adept, Hoarder gave me some intel in ever game, sometimes allowing me to surprise a survivor in the basement. A thing I cannot say about Territorial. You play multiple games without it being of any use for you. The only somewhat consistent way of playing it is camping the basement from far away. And we all now how fun camping is.
"Oppression is one of those Perks that COULD be good, but just end up being bad thanks to the unnecessary restrictions on it. it has way too long of a cooldown plus is extremely RNG reliant due to the random choosing of the 3 affected Perks. Its not horrible, but it gets outshined by pretty much all of the "combination Perks" you listed above."
Yes, the cooldown is unnecessarily long, wish it would be halved. It does not have to outshine the mentioned perks. It's there to complement them.
"the verdict for Twins: two absolutely horrid Perks and one okay one."
One ok (Coup), one underwhelming (Hoarder), one decent (Oppresion) in my book.
"Beast of Prey is very underwhelming in its effects. However, at the very least it rewards you with bonus BP and does not inflict you with a downside that actively hinders you, unlike Coup or Hoarder. that alone makes it better than those two."
The bonus BP are neglectable. Hunter is a very easy category to get points in. Also the are awarded in the trial, not post trial, so all it does is maxing out Hunter faster. If our games are over fast, sure you will get more out of hunter, but in a regular long trial, you will hit hunter may easily without it. Yes it has no downside, but its upside is barely existent, giving it a net zero imo. Coup played right will only be net zero if you are really unlucky with your lunge attacks. Hoarder will if the survivors do not open chests.
"now for Hex: Huntress Lullaby, you are right its a rather underwhelming Hex Perk. However, that doesnt mean it would be a weak Perk. The 6% bonus regression on missed Skillchecks can be huge, especially on Killers like Doctor or in combination with other Perks that make Skillchecks harder to hit, and the audio cue removal can make the Perk quite powerfull against People who might not be very concentrated on the gen aswell as force them to concentrate on their generator more than usual, meaning they become more oblivious to ambush attacks from stealth Killers. Its by no means an amazing Perk, but it certainly is better than Oppression is."
Yes the bonus regression is nice. But since it's a hex it has to live long enough. Which it usually doesn't, esp if you struggle hooking survivors. With ruin, you get the effect imidiately. Not with lullaby, weaker effect which needs build up. At least Oppression can be used from the start, only limited by its oppressive (pun not intended) cooldown. It grows stronger the less gens are available. Lullaby would get stronger as well, but the longer it stands the more likely it gets finally cleansed.
"the verdict for Huntress: one useless Perk, one severely underwhelming one and one decent Perk."
This i can agree with ^^.
"it might not be by much, but Huntresses Perks are definitely better than the Twins."
Not in my book.
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i think you are severely overrating both Coup and Hoarder
like, your main critisism about BoP is that "the stars have to allign properly for you to use it", but you use the exact same argument as an upside for Coup? like, what are the chances of a gen being completed right at the second i am in the perfect Coup distance around a loop for me to get a good effect out of it?
and yes, not going for lunge attacks all game to save your precious tokens is a huge downside. Ive seen Otz play this Perk a lot and his gameplay always ends up being the same: walking up to them so close that he physically touches them to then hit them in order to not lose the stack. that around loops literally means eating more pallets than usual / losing window loops you otherwise would have won to wait for them to fall for a mindgame so hard that they run straight into your arms, wasting so much time that you could have spend elewhere pressuring generators. and if you just go for lunges, you got a dead perk - well, unless the starts happen to allign properly for you to use it that is.
this means the perk is, at best, the same as BoP (absolutely useless except for that one in a hundred scenario) and at worst directly working against you.
and for Hoarder i think you severely underestimate the effect two bonus chests can have for Survivors. Thats two more chances at looting a Key or a Medkit to quickly heal themselves up (the later isnt even a rare occurence). Hoarder in its current state might aswell be a Survivor Perk, given that they are the only ones getting some actual use out of it. If i want a tracking Perk i am going to pick literally anything over that. god i'd rather not run any Perk than running Hoarder!
That Perk is literally always working against you. and even if there is that one super rare clutch moment where it reveals someone in the basement on the chest that you wouldnt have heared without the Perk anyway (another one in a thousand scenario btw), it still provides the Survivors with bonus items. What good is a Killer Perk that actively buffs Survivors? its literally the Killer being nice and equipping a Shiny Coin offering for them!
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Coupe de grace is good on Killers that can 1shot or really need a m1 like Oni, Myers, Wraith or on Twins themselves. Especially on Oni or Myers it can be very powerfull.
Horderer is not really that good, maybe for a anti meme chest build.
Opression is good on Killers that are slow or dont have alot of time to kick gens but also dont often m1 like with Surge does. Think of its a Surge for NOT m1 Killers. That means its for good for Huntress, Oni, Twins, Trickster or Deathslinger. Ofc you still have better choices like pop or ruin etc but it is still something new you could try and is definatly underrated.
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Maybe i overrate it, alright, but you are heavily underrating it as well. No you do not have to wait for a gen to be completes in the right time. I actually was talking about the opposite: A gen being done while you a lunging to hit someone, so it wastes a token unintendedly. That might happen, but rather rarely. That's why you try to preserve them, to use them in the right time. You cannot do anything like that with BoP. Of course you should not play it like not doing lunges at all so you always preserve the stacks, bc that will hurt you bad. But more often than not it's perfectly possible to just walk a few steps further to avoid a lunge and hit with a quick attack, keeping your totem. Yes it can happen that your Coup evolves to a dead perk, not denying that. But at least it's not dead from the start, like BoP.
Coup is not "absolutely useless" as you claim it. When trying Twins adept, I got use out of it at least once every match. A thing I cannot say about BoP (whenever I had it equipped). When using it for fun on Wraith together with Devour, I got some very surprising long range instant down. Coup leaves the survivors in the dark about it's power until it hits them. BoP is noticable once it kicks in, and then you likely are not even in a position to use it for mind gaming.
Yes hoarder generates chests, which can turn out bad for you. IF they open chests. Hoarder on it's own can really be bad, yeah. But that brings me to another aspect we haven't covered yet, where Twins perks "perform better" than Huntress perks:
Synergy with other perks:
Oppression has great synergy with every other gen kicking perks, so Pop, Overcharge, Brutal Strength and the new Nemesis perk. Also Surveillance, since it will highlight affected gens. Hell, there's even some synergy with Huntress Lullaby, Lullaby will affect the difficult skill checks fomr Oppresion and grant the bonus regression.
To get more use out of Coup, you could pair it with one shot perks like Haunted Grounds, Devour, Make Your Choice. To know when you get a token, you can equip tinkerer.
For Hoarder, using Franklins is the way to go for mitigating the additional items. Also they survivors will want to pikc their items back up again, so you get more value out of it. Granted thats just a meme build, but can turn out pretty will if the survivors are particualr stingy with their items.
Lullaby has some synergy around skillchecks, so Unnerving Presence, Overcharge and Oppression (all not that great perks, right). Aka Impossible Skillcheck Builds. But thats about it. And that particular build is not even useful for anyone except Doctor.
Beast of Prey has .... actually no synergy with any other perk! There's nothing to make you gain Bloodlust faster, or give you some other effects during bloodlust. Hell, you could say it has some synergy with Coup, bc that would allow you to get a hit easier when the survivor does not now where you are coming from. You could also say Bambozzle, but when you use this, you should be able to hit the survivors fast enough without needing BoP in the first place.
Territorial Imperative has ... again no real synergy. Make your choice in case someone is hooked there maybe, but you will have to wait until the unhook happened until you come back. TI has no impact there at all. The only scenario where TI is useful is together with Demo and Make Your Choice.
So all in all, with Twins perks, you can use them to complement builds or base the build around their perk. For huntress perks, only Lullaby can be integrated in a certain build, that only works somewhat with Doctor, the other two lacking any synergy (apart from TI + MYC with Demo).
I think thats the main reason why I see Twins perks as better than huntress perks, and is actually the reason why I bought twins in the first place (I did not want to buy them bc i found them unappealing, but I liked the perks): The perk synergies with other perks of Oppresion. And Coup having a genuine effect. Sure the individual power of the perks way be weak (although I still think huntresses are weaker), but at least there are ways to complement them to get more use out of them. I cannot see that with the huntress perks. Even for Impossible Skill Check builds, Lullaby is likely the weakest link in that all, bc it's a hex and will be cleansed after 5 minutes max.
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