So even if mmr does work, why?
Dbd is a far ways away from being a competitive game and the MMR system as a whole attempts to push it into a direction that requires a whole lot of sweat from both sides. Why?
-Why do we need mmr in a game that has RNG elements that make Mario party blush.
-Why do we need mmr in a game where a fraction of the roster is viable against top players.
-Why do we need mmr in a game that's completely different depending on how the map helps or hinders a killers power.
And this isn't some huge salt post, I'm just genuinely curious about who wants to play in a game where as killer you feel utterly helpless as a decent portion of the roster and as survivor you play against nurse and spirit almost every game. I wouldn't want to play a game like that, I don't think a lot of people would. I'm not even opposed on the idea of mmr, it's just the general balancing of the game is poor currently. So why have an mmr system right now, why does bhvr feel the need to just rush it out now and not when the game is healthier.
This is all assuming the mmr system even works, 4500 hour killer players are getting matched with 3 hour survivor players and we have no clue if that will ever get fixed, it certainly didn't from last time.
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Because I want to have fair games.
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And what exactly is fair about being a solo survivor against a god nurse or a trapper player against a practicing comp team.
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But rng and solo makes the game unfair anyway
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Becuz you'll never go against a comp practicing becuz you wont be that high in mmr
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I don't get that. I've been getting teammates who are generally around my skill level. I have almost 1400 hours and in the old matchmaking system I sometimes got teammates who literally had 80 hours. I want to have teammates that have around the amount of time spent in the game as me and that's what MMR does.
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I'm in call with him watching him play right now. He's ONLY getting comp teams.
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I'm not saying that. Ques are just long and it's mostly 4k hour players. Which is fine. It's tied mostly. Just not very fun.
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I think its cute that people are putting there trust on the devs to deliver a fair working mmr system in the game. Have people been paying attention these last 4-5 years, they aint up to it. Waste of time.
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Yeah, MMR is working.
And that's the problem. Once you get to the higher levels of MMR, the game is a dumpster fire. This game is one of the least fun, if not the least fun, games to experience a sweaty enemy team in. And EVERYONE sweats once your MMR is any levels of high. So the game because unenjoyable.
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Know what's even more unenjoyable than sweats vs sweats?
Sweats vs newcomers.
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Yeah, basically.
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Trust me, it ain't.
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And even if it weren't, might I add, I'm not asking to be paired with literal new players. I'm just asking not to be paired with people who treat winning the game like it's their life's work.
I won't get that with MMR.
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It may be unbalanced but I want to be able to be matched up with players of my relative skill level. In the normal system I get matched up with people who just started the game, with MMR I'm actually getting matched up with people who should be playing with me.
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Maybe, just maybe they should do these tests for more than just a few days AND inform the community that the still in place ranks are worthless during those tests. Even a group of rainbow ranks CAN be correct if for example the yellow and green have been deserved red rank at some time but, either due to the reset bug or a long time out, were pushed down again.
But we all know that behaviour is way too scared to upset the majority of the community for even a short time such a system would need acclimate itself or the community learn how this new matchmaking works and how to read it
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You do realize that comps will play games outside practise, right? Meaning they will have days they will screw around, and thus lower their MMR. They would only heavily increase their MMR while they are practising.
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I stopped reading after your first paragraph, because you already contradicted yourself. You don't need to sweat if you don't want to. Just accept the fact that there will be 4 escapes (assuming you are playing killer). If you don't take it competitively you shouldn't really care about the end result. Also ideally your ranking should decrease if you play chill and even a chill gameplay should be enough to get a few kills after your ranking adjusts to your gameplay.
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I don’t see an issue.
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I feel I should have portrayed myself better.
I'm fine with sweatier matches, I like the game in a more competitive setting. the problem is the state of the game doesn't allow for those sweatier matches to be fun for anybody outside of a very small group and I wish bhvr would focus on game health instead of pushing MMR down our throats.
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As in, they wont be playing competitive survivor most of the year, only in preperation for tournaments, meaning that thanks to solo survivor alone they could be pushed down a lot, to the point of when they DO need to start preparing, they would face a ton of killers who would not be prepared for it.
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That's... the whole point of a MMR system? You're not going to go against a god Nurse or Trapper if you're not a "god" solo player yourself...
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I was about to make a similar thread, but I was too late. I agree DBD was never and most likely will be never treated like a competitive game, so what's the point of having system that is primarily used in competitive games is beyond me. And on the top of that they'll probably keep ranks too, which is also confusing. I don't think either side wants to go against the most sweaty players, which would result into more frustrating/unfun matches. But TBH, current MM is also terrible, so it's tough.
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In the state of the game, it's impossible for the game to work like that. There's so much RNG in this game. That solo surv just might get some really good maps or that trapper player might just get some really good maps. Then they get stuck with a higher MMR, and even if that solo survivor is good at the game, a solo in general, as good as they may be will have a huge problem with a god nurse and will likely lose without communication. Even if that trapper player is the best trapper player in the world if he gets a team of good survivors in a swf trapper ain't exactly holding up very well and that player will very likely lose.
That's the problem. This game doesn't work as a competitive game because of how much RNG can drastically change it. As much as I would love to have this game be competitive there are just so many balancing issues and red tape everywhere. Why is bhvr pushing mmr so hard when the game is in such an unbalanced state with map design and killer design.
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Yh this game has too many factors which change the outcome of a match. But bhvr needs to learn that. They should get the data which maps, addons, killer are unbalanced when there are 5 good players and then change it. I hope they do that bc right now there are too many thing which heavily decide the outcome of a match.
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I think the MMR system is going to affect the game in a very negative way.
When your MMR is high, you will only face against good survivors, so you will never have an easy game, you will always play with immense stress until your MMR is reduced, this will cause many Killers to stop playing, and therefore, the queue times are even longer.
The same for survivors, with MMR they will probably face even more Spirit / Nurse, which will make survivors tire much faster from playing.
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Because I want a fair game where I DONT have to tryhard and sweat.
I'm a purple rank killer, I definitely shouldn't be, but it's way too easy to rank up, and even when I lose, I black pip.
I am constantly going against sweaty red rank survivors, who 360, crouch dodge, perfectly hug loops and dead hard the instant I swing, etc. and I'm on console, so I'm already at a disadvantage. That's via the current rank based matchmaking. It's an absolute mess and it makes playing killer incredibly frustrating.
So far, the MMR tests have been a massive improvement, putting me against survivors closer to my skill level, and the games have never felt fairer. There's still been some challenge, but it hasn't felt hopeless, or that I'm getting "bullied" as the killer.
Even better, each killer gets their own MMR rating, so if you drop your 1000 hour Spirit to play a Bubba for the first time, you'll start off against other newbies so you can get to grips with his power in a more relaxed setting.
This is a massive improvement all-round for killers, and will get more people playing killer which this game desperately needs.
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That's exactly what you get with MMR. Unless you're saying you treat winning the game like it's your life's work and don't want to face opponents of the same mindset.
I swear all of this MMR doomsaying is people who are under the delusion that they're a god-tier player just because they're a red rank, when the whole point is that rank isn't a measure of skill and you're actually not the god-tier player you think you are. If you were, you wouldn't have anything to worry about, you could handle anything.
I had a survivor match earlier, it was a rainbow of ranks, I was rank 15 (down from 7 in the last reset), and I had a rank 2 survivor, a rank 1 killer and two other green/purple survivors. Yet it was the fairest, most balanced game I've ever played. 12 hooks, 1K, and 1 got the hatch. Genuinely never had such a satisfying game, that didn't cause me to 100% sweat, or feel completely hopeless, or steamroll the killer.
You all keep regurgitating Tru3T4lent and ScottJund with their "you'll only ever face Stridor Spirit and 6000 hour Nurses" as if you are the 6000 hour expert streamer yourself. 95% of players are not those players. MMR will work brilliantly for 95% of players, as it has been for me.
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Tbh i dont take dbd seriously. So mmr doesnt bother me. Mmr is for the people who like to sweat and be the best. More power to them. Probably means less salt in my games, and more fun.
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Yeah the amount of people I've seen complaining they're going to have eternal queue times and nothing but sweat squads and nurse and spirit...I guess 95% of the community is in the top 5% of players
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You mean the tiny fraction of the playerbase who actually use the forums? The loud minority?
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Not just them. Like some people from my old swf group are refusing to even play currently just like they did with the last test because they know beyond all shadow of a doubt that they'll only be matched up with elite deathsquads. And I'm like...I know you guys are rank 1 killers and that's great but I've played against you before and I think you'll be fine, somehow.
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No, we’re not “regurgitating” anything. My experience with MMR has been completely terrible. Multiple of my friends are in a similar boat. The person who made this thread had the most polarizing matches of the century yesterday. His matches were either against literal new players, or sweat squads with over 4,000 hours per player.
People like him and I don’t sweat. We’re just good at the game. And MMR punishes us being good at the game but still wanting to play for fun by putting us up with people who may not even be the best but will try to win like their very existence depends on it once our MMR inevitably climbs. That’s what it’s done every single time MMR has been turned on.
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Some people enjoy challanging and sweaty games. and if mmr matches those players together i think thats ultimatively a good thing.
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But why exactly should you have easy games when you play at the highest level? this is beyond me. pls explain
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BHVR strives towards a competitive game structure because the game has gained a very strong and ever-growing audience and they want that sweet eSports money and attention.
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Yeah I would argue that. I dont have the exact percentage but, there is a trophy when you hit rank 5 the first time. 10% of players earned this trophy in Steam. 6% of players earned the rank 1 trophy. I think this gives you a good idea about the playerbase.
edit: wait did you mean it as joke? lol then Im sry
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I know, right? Oddly enough I think MMR is working GREAT for my Killer. I am pulling pretty much Red Rank Solos and Red Rank SWF for damn hard fights. That is as it should be. It does not seem to work as well on the Survivor side yet though. But as you said, judging by the complaints by some, I must not be near as good as them (despite my Rank and successes) because it hasn't been that bad for me.
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It's not difficult to understand. If you are always playing games where you have maximum tension and are constantly under stress, there will come a point that you cannot follow, and therefore, you will get tired of Killer much faster, which will reduce the number of Killers and increase queue time. With Ranks matchmaking sometimes you have very stressful games, other times easy games, "balanced", but it's true that sometimes there are many easy games.
I don't speak for everyone, but I don't understand how you could be able to play the same way you do now, having to play from now only against SWF and / or people with more than 3k hours, games that would be completely pure stress .
People complain about Solo Queue, but 4 survivors who don't know each other but have more than 2k-3k hours aren't the same, but very similar to a SWF, their rapport even without communication is very high. I say this from pure experience, I have played Solo Queue games in which I have had monkey survivors and others in which it seemed like I was in SWF.
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Bc there needs to be some sort of criteria for the matchmaking system to operate and the current ranking system doesn't cut it. I am tired of playing red ranks against purple killers who are learning intermediate concepts and also tired of being put against killers with thousands of hours.
And frankly, not to fix an issue due to the existence of another is a poor argument.
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Im going to put numbers on your text boxes to adress it easier.
1. I understand that its more stressful to have difficult games if you give it your all. (Lets not forget that there are players who like this stress and they find enjoyment in it.) If you get stressed out by the difficulty of your matches in the top % and get tired of playing killer, then either you play killer too much or you are not fit to play in the top %. This is at least how it should be. The current matchmaking tells you: "its ok if you not that got at high rank, we got you with the matchmaking". The mmr would tell you: "we push you down till a comfortable level".
Im very confused about your understanding of balance. For me, balance is not the one extreme and then the other extreme. Balanced means for me that you get matches with people who are on the same level as you, throughout all the games.
2. Its easy because this wont happen. If I get sweaty 10k hour survs in x games and I like it, then theres no problem. If I get 10k hour survs in x matches and I cant and wont deal with it, I go down in mmr and get easier matchups.
3. I dont understand your point here. Top solo players will get high mmr and bad swf players will get low mmr. To be specific here I would need the stats how mmr exactly works in dbd. But I cant see a problem here.
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This proves what I have been saying for some time: DbD is a casual game for casual party game players who want to always have fun (read: win) every single game while feeling like they actually struggled. That handily explains why Killers' fun is rarely ever considered in BHVR's decisions but Survivors are constantly coddled; because the Survivor community are a cash cow and making them mad means the same it does for Killer players who displease them: Endless whining, harassment and a hate train slamming into you at full speed. Also, no money.
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When I want to chill, I play something else. When I want to Kill, I play Dead by Daylight and I come into it expecting to get the sweatiest SWF death squad possible. This is my 'tryhard' game. Because putting forth effort shouldn't be a bad thing or perceived as one. It should be the default for any game you play. if you aren't trying, you are wasting everyone else's time.
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- There’s gonna be very few people who enjoy that.
- Especially not me, so why should I be punished by going against these people?
- By “challenging” do you mean “my ability to do well is literally irrelevant because the other side wanted to sweat harder”?
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1. Yes, there may be players who like stress, but I am sure it is much less than those who prefer to play without, at least, being ALL the games under stress. This is demonstrated by looking at the number of Killers at night (a very low number, which makes queues very long at night). Just because you feel stressed doesn't mean that you have lost the game. Feeling stressed and getting 4K is very different. And that's the problem, if I play a couple of fairly easy matches, a match with stress, honestly, it feels great, but 5 matches in a row of pure stress would be incredibly bad, at least in my case. Even doing 4K, all the stress I've felt in the match makes me lose the desire to play another one. Where I want to go is that, as much as I feel stress, I can continue to win matches, and therefore my MMR will remain or even increase, making my matches still stressful. There is no way to remove that stress unless it is by losing games and, therefore, reducing your MMR.
Your balancing concept will only make many Killers play far fewer matches in a row, since as I said before, one or two stress matches aren't bad after an "easy" or "moderately easy", but not 5 in a row without any "easy" match.
2. As I have told you, if you constantly face players with 10k hours, no matter how much stress you feel, you can continue to win matches, so your MMR will remain, you will continue to have stressful matches and you will get tired much sooner. Feeling stress isn't the same as losing matches, I think it's something that you haven't understood.
3. You haven't understood my point but absolutely nothing. What I'm referring to by that part is that, even if you aren't constantly facing SWF, if you face 4 survivors with 5k hours, it will not be exactly the same, but very similar to a SWF. What the MMR is going to do is make me face SWF and survivors with many hours, that is, I will never have a match against really bad survivors, so I will always have matches with stress, even if I win them.
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You both assert that most people don't find challenging games fun, but provide no evidence of that fact. We can't have a discussion on a point we haven't even established an agreement on or verified as true yet, especially when many people have said otherwise. Working MMR will lead to some games being easier as your skill improves while others are harder as you get moved up to more skilled opponents. By not doing your best when playing, you give incorrect data to the system and make it hard for it to work correctly.
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It demonstrably does not. A bud, and I at 84 hours ,and 350 hours respectively are getting matched with both survs, and killers with 1,5k+ hours. All of my killers today have been Rank 1 whilst not all of the Survs we've paired with have.
So, yeah. MMR is still in the shitter like it was in January when they first tested it. It's not going to work as it should imo simply because it's an asymmetric game that revolves around not only the map you play on but the killer you bring, or face against.
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Are you playing SWF with your friend?
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The issue is that you're asserting that sweat matches are "challenging". There's nothing "challenging" about sweat matches in this game. A challenging game is fun. Dying instantaneously because a Spirit brought headphones and good addons or having your ability to chase and apply pressure be rendered irrelevant because Survivors REALLY wanted to hold down M1 while staring at a metal cube isn't challenging, nor is it fun. You're practically watching a cutscene by that point. I didn't come to watch a cutscene. I came to play the video game. I find no challenge in these scenarios because my skill as a player is completely and utterly irrelevant.
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Naturally but are you trying to say I should be going against people with 1,5k hours? Lmao I'm nowhere near that good of a surv I've never even hit Rank 1 and play it only 20% of the time.
Every match today has been a 4K and clearly the killer is far and above everyone in the survivor lobby. A SWF of 2 should never be powerful enough to pip you up to people with over 1k hours when you yourself have 4 times fewer hours and are nowhere near as good.
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No, I was going to ask how any matchmaker is supposed to find a balanced match for two people playing together, one of whom has 4x the playtime of the other. It's always going to be unbalanced, no matter what.
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