The 2 Strongest Survivor Perks and Why They Need to be Weakened a Bit
Now survivors have an arsenal of good perks that give them certain abilities that can be game altering. This isn’t always a bad thing (like with Unbreakable or the new DS), but after playing many games with and against these perks, I feel like I have enough knowledge to say that Iron Will and Spine Chill are a bit too strong at times.
In a game where sound is just as important as sight, Iron Will has already been showcased countless times as being problematic as it can lead to killer’s having very little means of tracking/mind gaming a survivor. Paired with perks like Lucky Break, Iron Will can be very devastating to a killer’s momentum. Scratch marks and blood trails aren’t always reliable, especially when line of sight is broken or a map makes it more difficult to spot. There is also (whether intended or not) a side effect of Iron Will where the survivor doesn’t emit any noise, such as breathing or action grunts (I don’t think it impacts footsteps but wouldn’t be surprised if it did). Iron Will also hard counters Spirit’s power, which if I’m correct is the only perk (besides Spine Chill) that hard counters a killer’s power without any input from the survivor at all (which is the reason for Doctor’s Static Field to Static Blast change so let’s be fair here). Iron Will does need a slight nerf, but enough to just keep it in line and to prevent it from being too powerful all game (maybe a timed use or that the survivor starts off at 0% injury noises but it progressively builds up to 40/30/20% over a short duration).
Spine Chill is the other perk I feel as though is a bit problematic from the survivor side (and don’t worry I believe killer’s do have problematic perks too such as NOED). It grants free unlimited killer detection throughout the match, along with the increase in action speeds when the killer is facing your direction. It renders stealth killers basically useless (as well as stealth based killer perks), is another counter to Spirit (while she phases), and can alert anyone of any killer before their terror radius is even in range. I feel this perk activates easy mode for survivors and turns off the scare factor of having to be very aware when working on generators. The fact that it is constantly active too makes it completely better than premonition too, which is a similar perk that has a cool down. So to be fair, I think a few things need to happen to Spine Chill: once the Spine Chill effect activates it stays active for 15 seconds, then goes into a 60/45/30 second cooldown, and maybe reduce the range to 28-32m to give Premonition more appeal as it is a larger range but under control of where the survivor is looking.
Again, I believe some killer perks need adjusting too, so this isn’t a killer main biased post. I play both sides and I can tell as survivor that Spine Chill and Iron Will are extremely strong, probably granting them the status of best 2 survivor perks in the game (in my opinion). I think with the recent change to DS to bring it more in line with it’s intended purpose without being too strong or abusable, these 2 perks (and maybe a couple others) need to see similar changes made to them. Let me know your thoughts below or if you have other ideas about how to change these perks!
Comments
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Doesn't looking to the side a bit not trigger Spine Chill?
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Ah yes let me play Myers or ghost face while crab walking towards the survivors, surely that isn't counter intuitive to their powers.
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Weird I never thought spine chill and iron will were the two strongest survivor perks in the game.
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I thought sprint burst and dead hard were considered the strongest
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I think survivors have suffered enough perk murders for a while, lets focus on map and tile balance instead.
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I hope they don't nerf spine chill against stealth killers it would literally destroy the point of the perk
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Both are good perks, neither needs a nerf in any way. If you’re having trouble with a spine chill iron will gamer, get better a game awareness. Both have easy counter play, and just because they have synergy with other perks does not mean they are too good.
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Weak perks 👻. They don't need to nerf those perks to be honest. Iron will is waste of a spot, you will only see real sweaty survivor run it. Spine chill does not tell you were a killer is coming from, I had time were I run into the killer because spine chill activated. The only perk for survivors that may need a nerf is prove thyself I think it should
15% bonus speed not 25%(I got confused with leader sorry). I don't see how iron will or spine chill can be abusable, or strong. The old DS yeah that was broken since it was one minute of invisibility, but those two don't got that kind of power.Post edited by Trickstaaaaa on2 -
That or actually buffing the shitload of useless perks in the game
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I find it a bit much to say spine chill, and iron will are perks that break the game. Like sure they are good perks, but they can't be abused. Spine chill is just an info perk that even then you can't see were the killer is. Iron will is just a perk that can just keep survivors quite. But even then if it's combined with lucky break it only last for 60 seconds max. He thinks that the perk is equal to DS, when DS made it so the killer couldn't even touch you those two perks are not even close to that.
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Because with the terrible FOV you're not going to see them if you're looking to the side.
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How about we buff extremely useless perks first before deciding about nerfing ones that are fine and don't need any adjustments.
These 2 are healthy perks that require clever gameplay to give any decent benefit unlike rest of the survivor meta perks that give second chances for free. There's 0 reason to nerf either.
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Starting to scratch the bottom of the barrel aren't we?
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Iron Will?
SPINE CHILL?!?!
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I would have thought comboing Spine Chill and Resilient would be the problem. Iron Will is fine by comparison.
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I play Myers all the time, Spooky Myers at that. I manage to deal with Spine Chill just fine.
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And for that matter, I also deal with Iron Will just fine. There is a Killer Perk: Stridor which will help you counter Iron Will's efficacy if you like.
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Doubt that this will happen - look at Lucky Break. It MIGHT have become Meta, but the Devs were scared and it is a Perk which is not used again.
The Devs need to be more brave on that one, the goal should be that more Perks are actually worth using.
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So...survivors aren't allowed to have any good perks whatsoever. Got it.
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I mean, Im killer main and I really do think some survivor perks should be nerfed and some should be buffed, DS is a perk that is still used, I dont fear DS as I almost always have a good starting and then I can just be DSed and I dont care, but there are perks like Spine chill, Prove thyself that makes me wonder if This game even cares about the players, Spine chill has a way to be countered, but its really annoying to be looking to the survivor by certain angle not to give him 6% vault speed or the info. 4 people on a gen with 2 prove thyselfs end the gen in 20 seconds+-, does anyone think that this is ok? Normally 4 people on a gen is 36 seconds. Thats absolutely quick for a 80 seconds thing. Not to say if you face Resilience, Fast Track, Prove Thyself/ Spine Chill, Stake out. The gen is done in almost 4.356 seconds if you have the 18 stacks of Fast track and the skill check appears to all 4 survivors within 4 seconds of gen reapair.
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I think that survivors need to have good perks, and killers as well. What I dont think is that survivors should be allowed to be immortal for a few seconds using perks surch as Bt and DS+ Unbreakable combo.
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Lucky break is meme, it has some good combos but its not perk that helps you in chase or any such thing, perks that help you during chase as exhaustion perks, walking perks and Vault Speed might help, Prove thyself is a good perk as it helps in objective, lucky break only helps you loose the killer when injured, completely making DH inutille. Whatsoever, thats my opinion, you might have a different one.
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Yep lol
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I hate Spine Chill and too many people (Way too many people) undervalue this perk. This perk being present in a game will single handedly ruin any stealth killers presence and the entire gimmick of their power. I'm of the strong opinion that if you are undetectable you should not in any way prompt Spine Chill. Premonition is a bad perk and on a similar boat but I feel that perk needs a rework. It's overshadowed by Spine Chill in every way.
Spine Chill = 100% Uptime and offers benefits when a killer is clearly looking at you.
Premonition = Cooldown / Not 100% reliable on detecting a killers position / Wasn't there a penalty for this perk proc'ing?
Either way - Spine Chill shouldn't proc versus Undetectable killers. This has been my stance since they changed The Shape's power at Evil Within 1 to have undetectable and actually proc Spine Chill.
That being said - Spine Chill isn't overpowered or strong against normal killers. However it will counter most effects stealth killers have with their power to an unfair degree. With The Shape (Michael Myers) I feel that's another issue entirely and The Shape's kit needs a rework for modern DBD. However I still stand by Spine Chill severely hindering stealth killers like Wraith, Pig, Myers, Ghostface and other builds for Stealth granted for stealth builds on let's say Doctor as an example you have other tools at your disposal. With the killers whose main property is stealth is where the issue is.
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They are not the strongest, they are just annoying, thats all. SPine chill has a little buff that helps in vault speed, gens, healing and exit gates. Lots of killers dont like that, thats all, im not that annoyed by them but I know that there are killers that are.
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If you are being paranoyed about spine chill, you dont know how to use the inf oof the perk, dont blame the perk, and Iron Will can help urvivors do mindgames middle chase. And prove thyself is already 15% speed at gens, Leader makes Exit Gates, Healing, Cleansing Totems 25% faster, its a common error between new players( which I think you are by the things you are saying). The only thing I agree with you is about DS.
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OoO Was Nerfed, DS was nerfed, BT was Nerfed/Buffed, Lucky Break was changed from PTB and now I've only seen it once despite this outcry of it being op.
The fact of the matter is, making tiles weaker and maps smaller as a whole is way more beneficial to literally any perk change so I have no idea why you act like I'm complaining when what I suggested is a far stronger change than DS, but pop off sweetie.
and for what it's worth i don't care about DS, haven't used it in years besides those two weeks after they changed it because i was getting sick of all the tunneling killers when there was no obsession.
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I agree, but I think that prove thyself should be nerfed. Thats the only thing that makes me mad when playing as killer. At red ranks there are always second chance perks that can be easily ignored and the Prove Thyself. Second chance perks such as BT can just be ignored waiting for 12 secods. DS is a perk that you can slugg if necessary, or eat it if the game is under control. Dead Hard is the only thing that is occasional and if used correctly cannot be ignored, as they can use it to make to a pallet( use DS to try to make the killer wing isnt the main purpose of that perk as it is expectd and the killer at red ranks usually waits the DH to be used). Adrenaline is a perk that occasionally comes in clutch, as you have to be let in slugg and the killer closes the hatch, you be in chase when the last gen pops, and its a 1 use perk, usually it doesnt buy enough time for the killer to loose you or you escape the match. I might be missing some other second chance perk, but thats what I remembered, but thats the most used second chance perks today.
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Those 2 perks are good but not god like.
Honestly I rather buff all the trashy perks like Vigil.
Like seriously there's like... what 5 killers that have timed status effects.
Most of the status effects in this game are legit just "until healed" instead of a timer.
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I agree with both
iW has no counterplay.
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There are multiple add ons and a perk that counter iron will. Spine chill is the main and fair counter survivors have against stealth killers. The only thing I could understand being possibly problematic is the unnecessary speed boost (similar to NOED) But other than that it’s perfectly balanced. The two perks are definitely useful, but op? No.
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Spine Chill should not detect Mikey in tier 1 EW. That was a terrible change. He's slow, has no lunge, and has to look directly at survivors to become a normal M1 killer. Stealth is the only thing he has at tier 1, the only thing, and Spine Chill takes that away from him. You know how many survivors I see running Spine Chill and Sprint Burst? And when I say "see," I don't mean during the match, because they're [BAD WORD]ing gone before I get near them.
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Not saying they need nerfs (and I'm against the Spine Chill nerf), but what perk other than DS has been murdered?
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none really I was exaggerating, perks aren't the issue though, maps and tiles are and have been for the longest time, people are far too focused on things they don't like VSing.
But for what it's worth, OoO was changed because it was strong, Lucky break was changed from PTB because it was "op" and now I've only vsed it once, bt was nerfed and buffed but it makes it easier to tunnel with it's change.
And as we all see, there are daily "nerf x perk" on the forums all the time and they aren't the biggest iussue.
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Spine chill is good (and annoying as a stealth killer) but I wouldn't nerf it.
Iron will I'd probably make it a temporary ability you could activate periodically (I say this as someone who runs IW a lot) but in return it and off the record would override stridor.
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I actually agree with you 100% about map balance. Devs need to do a much better job with them for both, survivor and killer roles.
OoO wasn't just strong, it was broken in the hands of a well coordinated swf team where everyone knew how to loop. Of all the perks that needed to be changed, it was this one, much more so than DS.
Other than Map Balance, it really comes down to matchmaking. I only play solo and for the most part, it isn't as terrible as people make it when I am paired with people who know what they're doing. It just sucks when everyone I am grouped with can't distract the killer for more than 5 seconds, or nerd rages and suicides because they got hooked first.
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If a survivor is using Iron Will and it's activated, they still leave scratches and pools of blood. Tracking isn't that big of an issue. Spine Chill works well but it can be countered by not directly staring at a survivor.
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It doesn't even hurt Wraith much on the initial approach anymore, not with his new cloaked speed.
Looking away just enough is still better of course, but i find Spine Chill less and less threatening these days.
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This man knows things
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🙄.
Stop complaining and adjust. It's your job to figure out how to work around the perks the other side is using. Not for bhvr to overhaul a feature because you "lost" a game.
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Spine chill honestly needs a nerf. Straight up countering stealth killers and perk just by using it while gaining a buff. Iron will could use some adjustments as well. I love using them but they sometimes feel too good.
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Yep. I remember I was on Dead Dawg Saloon playing Ghostface and had 2 Claudetes with Spine Chill left. Every time I went to their generator they were nowhere to be found and this went on for like 10 minutes so I said what the hell and walked over there sideways. Found them right away.
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Never said their synergy was the big problem. It’s just that they are ridiculously strong and no one realizes it. One basically mutes you as a survivor, removing one of the killer’s senses. The other basically is free information significantly more ahead of time than a killer’s terror radius. I don’t really have trouble against them as killer myself, but after using these perks for so long as survivor I can see why some killers, particularly stealth killers, struggle. They work a bit too we’ll at what they do and I feel as though they need some sort of slight adjustment for balancing the game.
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I’m just putting my thoughts out there on 2 overlooked strong perks that can be very impactful on killer’s momentum, similar to how DS used to. If you want to bring the game closer to balance, I think perks like these need some sort of small adjustment to bring down their strength just a bit.
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While yes, maps/tiles do need some adjusting (which is kind of the point of the whole Realm Beyond thing), that doesn’t mean perks shouldn’t be looked at as well. Why not make changes to both?
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So we just gonna play the game sideways now? I don’t think that’s a fair “counter”. I still don’t mind the perk triggering when a killer is approaching, but it can constantly trigger, removing any sort of stealth the killer may have to attempt to get closer for a hit on the survivor unexpectedly.
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Even though Wraith can handle the perk better than the others doesn’t mean Myers, Ghost Face, Pig, and even Deathslinger (with M&A) deserve to be stuck with the aftermath of a perk that defeats their purpose.
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What needs a nerf is almost every killer. Then you can complain about Spine Chill. DS was already nerfed, making it pretty useless and rewarding tunnelers. People facing tunnelers should disconnect.
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Yeah, it actually means that. Survivors way of detecting killers is the terror radius. Your killer doesnt have one? It should be nerfed. Oh, you dont wanna nerf it? Deal with spine chill.
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Because you can't just nerf everything, that's ridiculous.
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