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This might be unpopular but...
Survivors need a second objective right...so why not just make noed basekit for killers? You want more killers to stay? Swf with coms and 16 perks vs 1 killer with 4 perks sounds fair? Gen rushing would not hurt lower level killers as much as the game would have to last longer...and with maps and perks designed to find totems (especially with the new re dlc) would this really be so bad? Even makes sense in the lore with the entity being displeased if there are no sacrifices;so here killer a slight boost get me a kill.
Comments
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So the training wheels for free for the Killer?
No.
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I agree that survivors should have another objective other than gens but I don’t think this is the way to do it unless you give a base kit totem counter.
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Even with a Totem Counter, it should at least be an interesting Objective. And not more M1-holding.
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Other objective to surv by making killer getting base kit for free kills? Ain't it chief
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True. I would like something more engaging other than doing gens because it’s the most boring thing in the game.
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Try to get killer adepts right now without gen rush regression perks on large maps or just regular matches at higher ranks without gen regression...tell me how well you do😎. This forces a stop to gen rushing 4 to 5 minute games.
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In fact, I got some a few weeks ago: Pig, Doctor, Wraih, Clown, Huntress, Nurse and Hag. Obviously some strong Killers there.
And when it comes to Adepts, while those are a little bit too hard currently (mainly because it gets artificially harder in Red Ranks because of the Requirements), those should be challenging.
And not every game is Adept, so players have their full Loadout AND get Training Wheels for free aka built-in NOED? Or a free Perk Slot when they used NOED before? Nah, really, that is too much.
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No one is forcing gens to be done at rapid pace and like there aren't maps, small game, detectives hunch, and the new re dlc perk to search for totems...one person on totem duty will help the killer have time to apply gen pressure at a normal pace (without having to rely on corrupt intervention, ruin/undying and would help to try new builds). Killer mains staying would only be good especially in the evening hours.
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Sure make it so if gens are done in under let's say 7 minutes it activates...a killer is obviously hopelessly outmatched if the survivors are finishing their objectives this quickly so why would they not need the boost?
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I am thinking of the new players that are about to enter the game...if they get gen rushed after rising in ranks to even a green rank do you really think they will stick around?
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New players wont learn anything with NOED, especially not build-in. NOED gives 4% Speedboost on top of the Instadown, this makes the general Loops pretty laughable. So they dont learn how to run those Tiles, because in the Endgame, they get their free Speedboost and dont need to mindgame at all.
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Open to suggestions...that is the point of this thread😊
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i actually thought about this aswell, because it would also restrict perk freedom since you would need some sort of totem tracking like tapp's hunch or small game.
one of the issues i think thats the most problematic is , SWF would become stronger, and solo players would become even weaker, and some of the killers like Nurse and Spirit would become more deadly, while one shot killers would become weaker.
if they did something like a hex totem starts to hiss or has a burning sound more intense so the totems over time would be easier found, it could be a viable thing. I think ruin for example has WON GAMES straight up on both sides. we couldn't find Ruin as survivors and couldn't really pressure gens because we got pushed off and couldn't cordinate 2 man sticks. As killer ive had insane Ruin locations that never got found and even when i over chased one person(most of them rank1) it didn't matter because you could still crowd control very effectively and once you create deadzones theres no real outplays possible .
if you could figure out some of the more glaring issues with NOED being too strong for killers that are already strong, this could be a real solution. Especially because people hate NOED and call killers trash for using it , but often times using it could help them win games. Once it becomes standardized and normalized not saying the stigma would be gone, but people would be more understanding of NOED in general while also helping the killers.
(i would imagine like NOED lasting for 1-2 hits maybe and then a survivor could easily find it not like currently where you just sometimes dont find it at all)
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Small game basekit as well. seems fair to me.
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Maybe not NOED, but some sort of extra step before escaping via the exit gates could be beneficial, or even adapted to fixing the gens.
I admire your cajones for bringing up the idea though!
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I'll agree with second objective and disagree with noed one
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That would be perfect like a haunting grounds type of cooldown...at end game 60 seconds of insta down if you don't get anything then yeah killer loses there last ditch effort to stop the survivors...is it really more oppressive than a tier 3 Myers?
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That would be fine...the whole point of the second objective happening is the main point...that way solos don't feel underpowered as well.
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Yeah I figured people would be mad but like I said I am open to discussing how this could work there have been some good points that have been brought up😁
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Don't try and tell me that more killers will stay IF noed is base kit.
I've probably had over 100 games where a killer has DC at 1+ gens, even though they have noed. Literally last night I seen a tunnelling Bubba dc just at the exit doors after the person he was tunnelling was about to escape.
Don't try to say "16 perks + comms.." is that fair. The kill rate wouldn't be above 50% if this game was so massively unfair.
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So a swf on coms with 16 meta perks wont beat a low mobility killer with 4 perks on larger maps especially with a gen rush build? I mean gen rush threads are kind of a normal occurrence in these forums?
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Funnily enough... I also came up with an idea to encourage Survivors to break Totems even without Hex Perks in play.
Each Totem in play provides the Killer a 1% bonus to Break, Vault, Pick Up, and Hook actions per completed generator. This bonus is lowered by 3% for each dead Survivor. That might not sound like much, but at the end of the game with no totems destroyed and no dead Survivors, the Killer is rocking a 25% Fire Up bonus. Of course everyone would be given a totem counter if this happened.
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Cleansing totems has been my secondary objective since inner strength was released I gotta tell ya, killers are still pretty disappointed when the totems are busted and gens still fly.
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I think it could work. High pressure situation👍🏾. Sounds good to me!
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See you are already accostumed to it😂 I actually forgot about the inner strength perk.
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Good idea...worst case scenerio it is a bunch of body blocking at the exit gates unless there was a cooldown to the attack animation as well as the walking speed and a totem counter has to be given for fairness.
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It kind of reminds me of horror movies where the killer gets that last desperation burst to finish the survivors...fits with the element of the game. If the killer fails then he/she deserves that entity displeased result🤣
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EXACTLY!!!
You're right on point. It's a horror game, so it should instill fear, particularly for survivors.
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That just seems like promoting poor gameplay for Killers, so I'd say no.
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I didn't have it give out buffs to those because those stats are very powerful. I wanted to give the Survivors an incentive to break dull totems, not make it near mandatory.
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Another survivor's objective it would be nice.
I like your idea about base kit end game killer buff but I wouldn't make NOED to be base kit because NOED gives imprevisibility, emotion and suspense to the game. If it would be base kit we all would loose that feelings.
I think the run speed buff from NOED would be a good base kit when the last gen is done and also a combination of some cool-down reduction on successful attacks and some cool-down reduction on failure attacks.
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As a killer main who does use NOED from time to time (mostly on my killers who are baby levels and/or have no other good/decent perks to use) I don't think this is a good idea. Imagine giving Nurse and Spirit a base kit NOED. Oof...yeah that sounds kinda terrible. Hell as Blight where I use Hex: Devour Hope, making survivors exposed against him is nasty. Nah this would be way too oppressive imo.
I do however agree that secondary objectives should be something to look at and give survivors. I've said before in the past why not take from what the Friday the 13th game did right and make it so that survivors have to find items randomly hidden around the map before they can work on gens? Perhaps even take that concept and evolve it to where it changes based on the map? For instance, on the junkyard you have to find generator parts before you can start working on gens. In the Oni's map, Yamaoka Estate, maybe make it so that they have to cleanse the area of dark energies by lighting candles spread around the map before they can also work on gens and start to escape. Hell, maybe change the gens themselves, to where the candles clear the entities magic in the level that reveal some sort of dark glowing object (different looking from totems) that work the same as gens, where you work on them but like for the dark objects you're cleansing them which will allow you to open the gates and escape. Essentially just make gen skins is what I'm saying, if you want to theme the secondary objectives to the gens.
I think doing something like that and finding the right kind of balance between the number of objects you need to find before gens and possibly even looking at gen times too, might be the better way to go about this.
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Where do these sub rank 10 killers get off saying "genrush"? Do you really think the survivors have anything better to do? If you're not applying pressure or taking too long in a chase, they're going to do the only objective they have: generators. Genrushing is just a word to make you feel better about being a bad killer, and I suppose this entire thread is just "I need another crutch as a killer because I'm losing."
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To be fair, for every "survivors are genrushing" thread that exists, we have just as many, if not more threads of "the killers are being too oppressive" threads where they whine about not being able to get gens done fast enough.
Both sides whine and cry loudly about the main objective of the other side and how "easy" they have it.
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Before the first hook happens, there should generally be at least two generators done, I understand that much. As for "killers are being too oppressive" I really don't understand that. You joined a game to try to survive. Either learn to do it or die trying. That said, I don't camp, tunnel, or slug, but I do occasionally get cleaned. Part of the learning process. Giving me free noed won't make me a better player. Shouldn't punish survivors for doing well, and shouldn't punish the killer for them doing well either.
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Oh I agree about the NOED thing, why would you punish the survivors for doing their job and doing it well by making it base kit? Makes no sense.
That said, I still do think there needs to be a secondary objective though. I remember seeing someone break down the math of how long it takes to do gens at baseline, vs how long it takes to get 12 hooks (I believe they used either an average guesstimation of chases or went with a lower number, or they went with putting 3 survivors on 3 gens, or something like that) and the numbers showed that at base with no add-ons and no perks, gens can be done way quicker than what it would take to get 12 hooks. I'm not saying that doing gens should take forever, but I remember seeing the numbers and thinking, eh those can be a lot better for both sides.
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Although a killer has a couple different methods of slowdown. Slugging is one option, and another is just outright tunneling. Of course, those are no fun, but they still keep survivors off generators. Basically if someone is on hook, one person is looping, one person is unhooking/healing, and one is either totem hunting or working generators. Totem hunting is kind of important, especially if you start smelling Devour. So, generators can fall by the wayside pretty quickly. Generally not the case against 4man stacks, but that's not always happening.
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Your just trying to say that all swfs are equal. Not every swf can use the map/perks too their full potential. Give the rank 20s comms and all the meta perks they want, even let them choose the map but it doesn't mean it'll matter that much since they don't know how to use them properly.
What a very particular situation you created. So a killer such as Spirit, Nurse, Blight, Hag with 4 meta perks won't beat a baby swf on a tiny map especially with 4 gen protection perks?
It's quite easy to write these really favourable scenarios that don't happen too often.
Gen rush threads are a normal occurrence on these forums, but so are:
- Spirit needs a nerf
- Noed needs a nerf
- Swf needs a nerf
- Devs are survivor favoured
- Devs are killer favoured
- Etc
Just because there is a lot of threads about something, doesn't mean it's right.
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That is not a bad idea as gens go VERY quickly with a decent survivor team and it does provide an alternative objective that is not essential but helpful nonetheless. Survivors should get a token counter to help out.
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If NOED goes base kit, current DS or BT should be base kit as well. Kinda sick of having 2 perk slots removed because most Killers hate fun.
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No, see, it's well and good to give Survivors a Hook Tracking system for free so they can better coordinate body blocking and looping, but giving killers anything, even as a means of encouraging survivors to do something other than Generators? That's OUTRAGEOUS.
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No thanks I like to earn my kills.
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I mean that's why I said at base line. Including totems would be adding perks, which for this one guys point he wasn't using. You're right though, slugging is a tactic but no one likes being slugged and left to crawl around just die in 5 minutes. Slugging, imo, is only a valid tactic when you spot multiple survivors that you know you can down fairly quick. If I end up downing say a Dwight and I manage to spot that Blendette hiding in a shrub nearby, then yeah I'm gonna slug the Dwight and go and see if I can also grab that Blendette too. Then the chain will continue if I spot more along my path. Anyway, getting off topic. I agree the killer does have tactics they can use, but so do the survivors. Having someone who is somewhat good at Looping, vaulting, and knows where/when to drop safe pallets on the map, while three others slam out gens. I mean, hell technically you can have two people distract the killer while the other two knock out gens. In 80 secs you can lose two/three gens depending. Whereas, say in that time you've caught the two survivors who were running you. Ok, two gens get done. Survivors have completed 40% of their main objective, whereas the killer in that same time has only accomplished roughly 17% of theirs. In the same amount of time you have one group who is close to halfway accomplishing their goal, whereas the other is close to about a quarter of the way of theirs.
Again this assuming neither side are using perks and add-ons, and the killer is being run by half the opposing team and catches them in the 80 seconds it took to complete two gens at the same time. This is the disparity that was pointed out more or less and I kinda agree that there should be something added to try and close those numbers just a tad bit that doesn't involve forcing gen times to be raised to ridiculous numbers. That's why I like the idea of borrowing from other similar games like Friday the 13th where they made it so you had to look around and find things like a scavenger hunt in order for them to escape. This could also maybe lead in to a more dynamic way of using DS, as I see some people think it's too weak or something. In Friday the 13th survivors could stun Jason in a similar manner by finding like knives or scissors or something (you get the picture, sharp pointy thing) and be able to pocket it and use it when Jason picks them up. Could maaaaaybe do that? So that DS is baseline but to use it you have to find one of the limited save knives on that spawn on the map.
Again I have no idea, I'm just throwing stuff at the wall at this point that I think was really well done in other games and seeing if maybe they could apply here to fix some of the problems this game has?
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Y is it poor gameplay...the scenerio happens If the killer gets gen rushed in a certain amount of time?
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How a sweaty team that 'Gen rushes' will actually play:
4 gens will fly because people who think NOED is a solution are 99% of the time going to get rushed even by solo's.
The last gen, or two and maybe even 3 are 99'd while the team scrambles to find the totems.
In a minute or so all totems are gone, they all escape or you get a cheeky 1K.
Alternative:
They don't bother with totems and just let one guy die. Maybe 2. GG got a 2k thanks to NOED.
How it'll feel for generic solo queue people:
More M1 holding and killers getting insecure that they're being looped by solo's in Ironworks of Misery, may or may not be some BM after the NOED down.
Bad idea. I'd prefer some slowdown perk to be given than NOED. Except on Nurse. No decent nurse needs a free slowdown in public matches.
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Well.. fun fact. There was at one point a secondary objective.
The year was 2018 it was late October and pustule flowers emerged for the very first time.
This event is by far my most favorite event, but it will never come back. The reason why is rather simple, flowers emerged on maps and forced survivors to do them if they wanted to recieve their Halloween reward. Which was orginal blighted skins for both killers and survivors. But, these took more time to do than a totem, and less time than a generator. The thing was, a survivor needed to get TWO of these flowers and their progress was not safe guarded if they died.
Once they died, it was a gamble to see if any progress was loss. While the killers are always the same. Special hook, hook a survivor to get your reward.
This forced a lot of survivors to not do generators and which caused what I personally believed to be the highest survivor death rate during that time, because they added secondary objective
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So no insta down basically a relentless perk buff maybe mixed in with a mad grit buff?
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Fair enough 😁
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In fairness, a high level nurse, spirit, and blight probably wont need the buff since it will be hard to get to end game as the survivor😂...they are the s tier for a reason.
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i mean just basic concepts like skill floor and skill celling comes to mind like both are not mutual things. you can have a game with a very high skill floor and a high skill celling things don't have to be hard for there to exist skill expression.
This game in general is not balanced for high level play and is more so target for a much more casual audience,sink or swim attitude is definitely something BVHR hasn't went for and most people looking for a highly competitive game would most certainly not look towards DBD.
the success and the health of the game isin't dependent on the competitive scene or the 4% red ranks, however it does depend on a steady pyramid flow of players to the top ranks that requires a huge player base and allot of them won't make it.There's an entire genre who are all about the struggle life and all about hardships and doing it the hardway, its called FGC. where some of their Biggest games have 20k players between multiple platforms, and household names like StreetFighter or Mortal Kombat cant keep 16k concurrent players even for a year. And thats not speaking on the sea of dead anime fighters.
For me personally your overall attitude is bizarre for a game thats not really that competitive or deep(most of the skill like 65% if not more is macro based and not micro) i would understand if you would take this approach towards a game like Dota2 or CSGO hell even COD or League,and thats not to say you can't get better or that you shouldn't get better. Its more so to the point that people should struggle in a game that's not really that serious .
Just a very simple example right? Dota2 has almost twice as much depth as League ever has had in its entire existence, yet most people will prefer to play League. You can attribute this to allot of factors like the artstyle or the flare of it or the feel. But allot what it boils down to is when the game gets rough and you don't know how to progress will you overcome or jumpship? Because everyone starts bad, and bad players need other bad players to practice to get good. You can't just expect to throw everyone in the deep end and expect them to swim, some of them will but allot of them will just sink. Ultimately the game doesn't need another red rank but the game could use couple of yellow,green,and purple ranks. cause those purple ranks will one day become red ranks. You don't want a cutthroat environment where people don't want to comeback gaming is a optional hobby NOT mandatory. You want to create an environment that you want to come back too and want to learn in.And it doesn't have to be either or.
just think about broader perspectives.
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