DS Change?
I think we can all agree that old DS needed a change.
The only thing is that the new DS doesnt do much to actually punish tunneling (which is what the perk is supposed to do).
Would it be a good idea to slightly extend the stun timer for it? Maybe slow the timer when someone is downed?
I mean, the survivor literally cant do anything in order to keep new DS active. And punishing actual tunneling is likely something most people should be okay with, right?
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thats a bit too much imho...
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10 seconds? Yeah they would be way too much time. It would just lead to more slugging.
If you wanted a change just make decisive not deactivate when doing an objective, just lose its timer twice as quick instead.
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Can we also have it activate twice? So if youre getting tunneled off both hooks (which tends to happen) you have a chance?
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Yeah I agree it should happen when ever you’re unhooked. Because then it’s not really an anti tunnel perk. It’s a one time get out of jail card. If the killer wants you.
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They took a perk that helps counter the killer's decision to tunnel and made is so if the survivor plays the game, the survivor is punished. It's mind bogglingly stupid.
DS was the only thing that kept the game somewhat tolerable for me as a solo survivor. I don't know why they didn't change it so if the killer downs or hooks someone else, your DS is deactivated.
Pretty soon all the lobbies really will be SWFs on coms because this game is miserable for solo survivors.
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DS is now fine.
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I just have to ask, how does DS punish you for playing the game?
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Because the perk deactivates when a survivor does almost anything??? Please tell me how my suggestion wasn't fair. That if a killer downs or hooks someone else, they aren't tunneling you, and therefore your DS should be deactivated. How does a survivor choosing to play the game mean the killer isn't still tunneling them? It doesn't. The devs destroyed DS.
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You get more use out of it with how the devs made it. If you have time to do gens, totems, heal others, whatever else deactivates it, you're not being tunneled. That's just the truth. If you're using DS correctly and not trying to abuse it, then you'd realize it doesn't punish you at all, you're just playing the game.
Tunneling is when a killer wants you and only you. They generally won't hit anyone else, they won't go after anyone else. They want to get you specifically out of the game. (Most of the time, camping is involved)
"Tunneling" (Quotation marks important) is anytime a killer goes after you within a minute of being unhooked.
One of those is what the devs wanted DS to counter (even if it doesn't do a good job, personally I think you should be able to use it after every time you're unhooked regardless of if you used it/missed it/weren't able to use it), the other is what many survivors try to say tunneling is.
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Pop should deactivate too if you hit someone before you hit the gen. It’s a gen regression perk, and if you’re chasing someone you’re not regressing gens
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The perk still let's you run to safety and/or another survivor to heal you back up and even if the killer finds you during that time, does the same as pre nerf.
Pre nerf survivor would use the get out of jail free card to dive for unhooks straight from getting unhooked because they have bt and know that the killer will neither get them or their saving target straight back on hook.
Or they use it together with getting saved with bt to be double save and Bodyblock for the unhooker also leaving the killer with a lose/lose situation.
Many people ask for available counterplay to all killer and whine when it isn't obvious or similar to the rest of the killer cast. And don't tell me slugging was real counterplay to ds, since unbreakable or another get-yourself-up perk was standard at that time and reversable 1 HEALTHstate damage is not nearly the same pressure as irreversible 1 HOOKstate.
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Kicking generators is not the killers main objective. Their main objective is to chase and kill survivors. Fine by me if they did that because it sounds like I'm doing my objective in place of having a defense.
Just if we're going to use the same reason. Main objective? no defense.
But you do realize you just compared 2 perks that aren't comparable no matter how hard people try to... right?
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The only change i would think is fine is ds activation after both hooks.
A longer stun wouldnt change a thing. You could say no scratchmarks and blood for 5 seconds if you want to use the stun to escape. But i sont know whether it would be too strong.
The last ds change was really good and everyone who complains about the deactivation of ds doesnt understand what tunneling is.
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I think it is fine as it is now and does what it is intended to do - stop tunneling.
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Some less powerful variant should be base kit to dbd. Much like some variant gen regression should be base kit to killer. As it stand not running ds or any obssesion perks opens your survivor game to some pretty misrable experiances. I can't count the number of times it has saved survivors or at the very least bought them time. Post changes simply because i didnt expect someone to use it and i was very far behind as killer so I risked getting hit by it.
If ds was as bad as everyone made it out to be large number of streamers and content creators wouldnt be using it. Which if you bring up twitch and check you will find on average it is the most equiped survivor perk in the game. Ds is powerful vs killers who are forced into bad decisions and will tunnel if it means potentially claw back a losing game. Don't let killers exploit that vulnerability and focus on playing well enough to force these situations.
Consider what your teamamates are doing and avoid leading the kiler to them. Work on gens if you not being chased and dont rush to save someone unless you know your a great deal of distance away. Ds will no longer turn a losing game it helps prevent immediate rehpoks which will lose you the game. You need to pressure the killer.
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Ds needs a buff really badly. I was thinking like a stun for 80 seconds and revert the activation condition back to the first iteration of ds but remove the juggle exploit so killers can't dodge it
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Slowing the timer while someone is downed is stupid. Why would you punish the killer for doing his job? Idc, you can increase the timer in general but dont slow it down like that.
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#########?
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How else am I supposed to punish the killer for doing their objective?
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While I do not care about the duration of the stun if we just slightly increase it, I am strongly against reverting the change in any way. If you have time to do a gen then you are not being tunnled.
In my opinion you can also make it that DS acivates each time you get off the hook. This is fine too.
But going back to the old DS in any way would be bad. That perk let survivors get way to cocky and in your face just because they got unhooked. They would bodyblock you and taunt you without them fearing any form of punishment if they ran DS and Unbreakable.
At least when sombody is trying to bodyblock with Borrow Time even thou you go after the one who unhooked you can wait it out and punish them after that. But with old DS it was pretty much a "bully the killer all you like"-card without any drawbacks.
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Oh yeah, I can see how tapping a gen for a split second is abusing the game. No one is getting more use out of the perk now. Most people have stopped running it because it's punitive now. Don't tell me what tunneling is. I have 1500 hours in this game as a solo survivor, and I'm very familiar with being tunneled. You still haven't said why my suggested change isn't fair, you're just defending the devs breaking it.
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The change actually punishes survivors for playing the game. It's useless now. Can you tell my why it wouldn't be fair if DS deactivated if the killer downed or hooked someone else? That would literally be the killer not tunneling, but that's not what the devs did. Playing killer has never been easier. They're making the game miserable for solo survivors, so I hope all the killer mains have fun going up against nothing but swfs when they drive us all away.
I'd love to not have to run DS but so many killers tunnel, I didn't have a choice if I wanted a CHANCE to stay in the game. One counter to DS? Don't tunnel. Slugging was valid. Sometimes, you're not going to win.
Killers cannot seem to handle that yep, in some circumstances, it sucked for them to tunnel instead of for survivors to be tunneled out of a game.
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finishing a get in front of the killer was abusing ds and gen tapping is dumb and shouldn't exist
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Okay but can you ensure me that survivors are not going to abuse this by just bodyblocking the killer even thou they should run away in order to not get tunneled? You know like survivors do with another "anti-tunneling perk" called Borrow Time where it is almost certain that if somebody uses it and you as a Killer want to go after the one who unhooked that the "victim" is trying to bodyblock you?
You sound like you just want old DS back where you had a "get-out-of-misplay-free"-card after every unhook and where you could play as fearless as you wanted because the Killer could not do anything to you who ran Unbreakable + DS.
I understand your idea but you do not offter a solution for the possible abuse that would happen this just comes off as somebody who actualy wants to abuse DS all over again.
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Stun timer is 5 seconds, plus however long the killer took to down you in the first place AND however long you can keep the killer on you after the stun.
If you're incapable of converting a 5 second head start into a long chase, then that's on you, or the killer outplayed you and that's good on him.
You don't deserve anymore handholding just because you got downed, hooked and downed again. This is literally you asking the game to fix your mistakes cuz you got outplayed.
Good survivors already can make great use of this perk when they need it, the perk is not abusable anymore as it used to be, and if you're being tunneled it gives you a safeguard which you can then combine with your own skill at the game to waste an absurd amount of the killer's time.
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It would still be unfair because it gives the survivor way too much freedom of choice to use a normally defensive tool for otherwise misplayed offensive maneuvers.
With your version people could still bodyblockfor other without the danger of getting rebooked because they still have a free chase for example.
Also why should this perk protect people when they actively or passively advance the state of the game without making themself available for targeting again?
Why don't you search for another survivor to heal you instead of hopping on the next gen and feel either protected for 60 seconds or until the killer got another survivor where you can be certain that you are safe?
Why do you have to help your team by destroying already vulnerably totems in 16 seconds, getting rid of a possible strong perk against you and your team and STILL be save afterwards?
And tapping a gen is passively aiding the advancement of the trial by preventing additional task volume for your team and shouldn't in my eyes even be possible by the slight touch of a gen during a chase. This should be a choice between aiding the team and being vulnerable or preferring your own safety over the team. You should not be able to back a cake and eat it, just like killer without ruin have to either give up a chase to use pop or go for the survivor and leave the gen alone.
Edit: To your first proposition of ds change. You basically want the pre nerf D's back with the additional condition that it turns off when the killer downs/hooks another survivor. Meaning you get the old freedom given by the perk back unless the killer does 1 or 2 minimum 15 second chases plus time to hook and time to find you while you can do objectives? Did I understand that correctly?
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ds do actually punish tunneling ds is fine as it is
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DS works the way its supposed to.
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yep
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