WHY don't people want sbmm/mmr?
So BHVR posted a thing about the mmr test on twitter and there is post after post of
"we don't want it"
"scrap mmr"
"mmr will kill the game"
The thing is nobody ever says why.
So i ask why will MMR / SBMM "kill the game" Why is it "bad" ?
Comments
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Because if it works they won't be able to bully squad their way through trash players and get wins they don't deserve.
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Because when i get to a certain level as say michael. I won't be able to get any higher because michael has character limitations that prevent him from breaching the highest level unlike nurse or spirit. And even when we say "thats 1%" yeah but still do i want every match with billy (who i average a 4k and as many hooks as possible) to be a sweat feast? No.
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A lot of people who play this game to chill and if SBMM actually works the way it’s intended every game will become a sweat fest
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Because this game really isn't fun when it's played competitively, which is essentially what relatively high MMR is, and they're scared because the Devs won't change how the game works so that that isn't a thing.
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If they are playing chill then technically they will never reach a point that requires sweat.
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Killers will not face with babies anymore.
Survivors will not face with babies anymore.
Everyone will get matches close levels. That is reason.
But i am supporting if i will not get babies again. Because last test i faced with baby survivors and it was not fun. If i get good survivors, i have not problem with that.
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If you are not competitive then you will not reach competitive levels.
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Lock this answer right here.
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Because if it works I'm afraid I'll only get serious killers who sweat a lot. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying serious matches are bad, but only in small quantities. If I ONLY get serious matches against serious killers every day it takes away a lot of the fun for me (for instance, if I want to use the Mither of Man (Mettle of Mither) build I'll only get killed around 2 minutes in by an amazing Nurse).
This is why I really want a casual mode that's away from our current ranked (if this happens). Maybe casual mode has no ranks and less bloodpoints, but it's for survivors who want to mess around with funny perks and killers who don't want to sweat all the time.
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Its actually the contrary. When the mmr works correctly, then it won´t be a sweat fest.
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Imagine going against a really good nurse that also brought pop, ruin, with really strong addons, I don't think you would enjoy that.
It will get boring to face nurse and spirit on the daily basis.
People don't want mmr including me because perks won't change at all, you will see the same thing match after match if you win a lot.
I really don't want spirit with the ring and amulet + ruin + pop + stridor every single match.
My mmr matches were horrible as survivor, it was either extremely sweaty or extremely new not in between.
Had a few matches as killer that were just extremely boring, I can tell you how they were, found survivor 1, pre dropped a few pallets, held w from side to side of the map only stayed in strong map tiles, I do prefer survivors that loop since holding W is just not outplaying or outsmarting.
One of the matches I had as survivor was bubba that literally had ruin + pop + bamboozle, only stayed in one side holding a 4 gen, had ruin protected and took whoever was down close to the 4 gen so he was able to camp and protect the gens, it was also extremely boring.
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It makes survivor and solo queue much better but also makes playing killer much less fun and more stressful. It affects both for the same reason -- survivors bring better perks, loop much better, and push gens way harder in a game that isn't balanced around the entire survivor team playing really well.
Personally, if SBMM becomes active full time I'm going to stop playing killer. After the first few games, my matches felt really sweaty and it was more stressful than enjoyable. Even the games I won.
And if my survivor games become nothing but Nurse (or BiS addons on strong killers) with Ruin + Pop + Tinkerer every game then I'm going to quit playing altogether.
I'd much rather they drop SBMM and instead make it harder to stay in red ranks as a survivor. The black pip is too forgiving. And they should fix SWF matchmaking when grouping with others outside your rank to match you using your highest ranking member(s) to prevent bully squads from grouping with a grey rank friend to beat up on lower ranked killers.
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My norm is 3-4 minute gens without MMR, predropped pallets and W key, second chance perks at least taking up 12 perk slots, and that's just because I'm playing on evening AU servers. I don't choose this, it's just the BS I have to deal with and I can't escape it without deranking (which I won't do), which won't even exist in an MMR system.
So imagine what everyone that plays this game will experience when MMR is turned in for good. Unless you deliberately throw trials, you will reach that stage, and they're terrified of it. And honestly, they have good reason to be. It's not fun.
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So, exactly what I said? I hate to break it to you, but your idea of fun does not mesh with that of anyone who wants to actually play to win. If you want chill games, go play a chill game. But Dead by Daylight ain't it.
And if you decide to keep playing DbD when you want to chill, you can't complain about other people actually doing their best to win. And you must understand that many people - especially Killers - are not screwing around. You can't have it all your way.
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Maybe its not fun for you. I happen to enjoy it and a lot of other people do too.
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If that's the case, why is the comp community for this game so small?
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Everyone's mmr was reset so we all started form 0. This is why you got new survivors... also the way some people play even though they "won" will not actually raise their mmr. Like slugging everyone and 1 hooking them all.
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I think 95% of the games population would disagree with you
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People want it, just not all the time. There's a huge difference in playing DbD optimally and just trying to chill. The fear is that it fixes nothing because it doesn't take into account playstyle on any given day.
The other issue that myself and friends ran into is that our survivor MMR was high enough that we only saw a select few killers with omega sweat builds. Win rates didn't exactly change, but the fun rate definitely did. It's exhausting to play optimally at all times. That isn't why many people play this game. And yeah, we could intentionally throw games to get easier killers, but then we literally have what we have now: the occassional mismatch.
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Because they don't see the bigger picture.
If mmr happens, they can better balance killer. If they can better balance killer then maybe the people who ######### about spirit can get her nerfed. Also the weaker killers can get buffed.
But as i said, idiots cant see the bigger picture on why mmr is a good thing for longterm game.
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If the matches are gonna be that sweaty, you're probably losing anyway, which puts your MMR lower. Have a little faith in the system.
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That's not exactly what you said. I never said DBD was Chill, but I did say it was fun. My definition of a fun game is a game that constantly evolves and becomes a different experience when played, with a ton of options to how you play it.
That's why Minecraft is one of my most favorite games of all time, each seed is different and there are multiple ways to play it (Manhunt, Hide and Seek, Hardcore, and WAY more). That's why DBD is one of my favorite games of all time (multiple builds and killers and maps all combine into an evolving experience. You can be a killer that's slower than a Snail with a BK Myers build, you can use Desperate Measures and Botany to heal at extreme levels).
What I'm afraid of is that if this happens, all the matches will feel samey. It's either a Nurse with a slugging build, Spirit with Stridor, or something else Meta, with DS and Unbreakable Survivors pounding gens as fast as they can. When I play DBD I want a different experience, and I'm afraid of the possibility if that happens the trials are going to be less special. I don't care if I win or lose as long as the match was fun and unique, but I don't think these matches will be either.
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It sounds like your group is as fun to face as grating nails on a chalk board for lower tier killers. how do you think that makes them feel when they get stomped By clearly better players?
I have literally given up playing killer after this round of tome challenges because survivor was just an all round better experience SOLO. I cant be bothered to put in an ounce of effort any more against people telling each other what to do.
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Because they're like stubborn old men who are afraid of change. They've come up with ridiculous slippery slopes to try and confuse uneducated players that MMR is doomed to fail, when they've barely seen it's effects. Are you tired of rainbow rank matches? Are you tired of having inconsistent match difficulty? This system literally aims to fix that! This is it! What we've all been asking for! Don't back out on us now!
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If you fear this then wouldn't you say that this is a problem that the developers need to fix rather then hide the issues in the muddied cess pool of mega data that they have now?
They can't do anything if they can't see it. There needs to be pain before the healing can begin.
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During the recent mmr test as survivor I noticed I was basically going against the same killers - mostly character but handful of same player because they apparently main that character. It kinda sucks going against the same killer match after match, especially since most do the same build. It's like getting the same map multiple times in a row. Gameplay itself is already pretty repetitive, having lack of variety in maps/killers you get just adds to the repetitive gameplay which makes it boring and lose interest after handful of basically the same match back to back.
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OH i know this all to well, and it is exactly why we need mmr. They will get killers that want to go hard and sweat while the rest of us can play Trickster tier killers and not have a 2 second game with 100 bp as a reward.
Eventually the data will show an issue (nurse and spirit only viable killers against "2000" mmr survivors) and the developers can start to balance the game around that information.
If it is something people actually fear then isn't that a massive issue that needs to be fixed?
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You know what, you're right. I don't think I'll ever stop being a bit scared about it (until it comes) but I'll trust that the developers know what they're doing and that this will eventually become great.
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Because if they did somehow manage to make a perfect mmr system where the strong players only played with strong players and the same went for new players, the game would be extremely boring and unfun. The less skillful the players in a dbd match are, the more interesting it is, because at high level you only see nurse, spirit, blight, and maybe 1 or 2 others, and the games end very quickly. And, playing killer is already stressful enough at high level, getting strong survivor teams game after game over and over is not a great experience (in my experience)
And don't say "Oh you just want easy wins that you don't deserve." No, that's not what I'm saying. It's not that I want easy games, it's that I don't want only sweat games. I don't like having to play a certain way every match in order to win. But sometimes during this mmr test, I had to tunnel or slug multiple people in order to win, which I find very boring.
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The problem is that most people are already at that stage and won't be able to leave it, and everyone will eventually reach that stage because that's how DbD functions as a game and MMR cannot change that - the not eyou play, the better you get, and the not eyou have to genuinely throw trials til that becomes a chore as well.
Edit: And yes, the very real fear is that the developers won't give a crap about "high-level" play because... Well, they don't right now.
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If you can win a game with 4 survivors in the entire time then they were way below your level and you should not be playing against them. This might be fun for you but it isn't the reality of the game in its current state.
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I got to rank 1 with a maximum of 100-200 hours as survivor out of 5k and can hold it as a solo player.. The game needs this, i should not be here and neither should the other players i am matched with from what i can see.
I am considered "high level play" by their stats right now and everything looks fine and dandy in their mega data because of it. Remember the kill stats they published? There is no way they should be that high for rank 1 and you know it because it looks like you get the same groups i do.
All we can do is support the mmr system and hope that they actually do something once they get some clear data.
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1.The game isn't even remotely close to balanced enough to justify it, 90% of the perks are completely redundant and only 3 maybe 6 of the killers are even remotely close to being able to handle a competitive match
2.SBMM kills off content creators, this is true for literally every single game this train-wreck of a system has been implemented in
3.Putting a system designed with competitive play in mind in a game that almost no one takes seriously is a stupid idea
4.if the tests are anything to go by then all MMR will be is one-sided curb-stomps, nobody but sick bullies want those
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if they chill wont they be able to chill with other chill killers? or the other way around at a lower level of mmr? cause wanting to chill and wanting easy games is two different things
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The only way you can chill and still make it to high mmr is if there is some gross imbalance for one side vs the other.🤔
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You can in fact play this game casually while also being good at it. I don’t sweat my ass off every killer game but I still do pretty well in a vast majority of my games.
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Because a big part of the vocal player base sees themselve as part of the top1% and assumes they will only go against seal team six teams / sweaty nurse or spirits.
while in reality, the current non-existing match making places them vs. complete potatoes and hands them free wins.
the second point will stop and the first one will not happen because people are not as skilled as they think they are.
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Given that my games genuinely get easier with MMR on, I'm not exactly saying I dislike it. But, the concerns are real and valid and I just hope that the system is genuinely functional and allows for downward travel just as fast as upward.
Edit: Also, I'm convinced that if ultra sweaty games become the norm then the Devs will change something.
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I doubt we will have a repeat of Dowseys 2 hour twins game. They probably placed a mmr cap this time around after that so there is a chance things will get muddy again (more variety) but at least it will be more difficult to achieve with a mmr system vs a rank system with a safety pip mechanic.
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True, i sat at rank 1 using pyramidhead while listening to music or twitch streams. This is only possible because the current rank system is stupid.
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Becaus people don't understand how SBMM works...
they think the system will keep matching you higher and higher until you need to play at your absolute best the entire match.
failing to realize that, if you just play normal... your sbmm will stay on that level. It will only go higher if they try to play more seriously.
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because of the way this game is designed, high level killers will have a very hard time beating high level survivors.
also, its generally not gonna be fun to go against spirit/nurse with quad slowdown everygame. same with going against 4 good survivors with the same meta perk build.
thats assuming that MMR actually works though, and knowing BHVR i have a feeling this ranking system will break constantly
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Remember old red ranks where it was only Nurse and Hillbilly killers? That's why.
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I have yet to see a game where SBMM was a good thing. Especially in a game with such unbalanced sides that are completely different roles entirely. It will kill diversity as well. Its fun to face different killers and different skill levels. At high levels it will be the same stuff all the time. I dont really have any issues with the matchmaking now, as long as queue times are fast, which is what matter most to me. You have your good and easy games and you have your hard and bad games. Its all by random chance not some system deliberately making it hard or easy for you. And one of the best things in a multiplayer game is putting the time and effort to get good so you start winning more than losing. Because you become better than the average. It is something that can be seen as you can observe yourself winning more and outplaying people you would have no chance of doing before. SBMM removes this feeling as every game will be hard and since there is a hidden rating you dont even see your progress or how good you actually are as a player. And facing better players is what helps you get better. If you only face similar skill levels you will never get better. We will see what happens when it goes live because they seem very adamant that it goes through. My prediction is less killers and longer queue times. People say itll help them balance the game over time. I hope that is their intention.
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All facing better players did for me is teach me how to be a better survivor. it does nothing on killer because there is literal skill walls that you can't surpass.
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Casual gameplay will never exist. Go look at the comments on Call of Duty’s pages, comments about removing SBMM have been there since day 1.
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MMR won't work without the game going into a competitive route and for that to happen BHVR would have to stop doing what they've done for 5 years, catering to casuals. Why does BHVR want MMR? They can very easily fix the Colored Rank system by reducing the window on the range to simply 1 or 2 ranks above and below instead of the current 8 rank difference, they can make ranking up harder aswell so Ranks feel earned, they can easily achieve this by increasing the requirements in the lower ranks so people don't rank up too fast without actually knowing how to play. There i've solved SoloQ and MatchMaking.
Personally i'm not against MMR if the conditions are right, those conditions being BHVR actually fixes the game for HIGH MMR players, fix the Maps, remove stupid bloodlust and breakable walls, fix spawns, remove Map RNG, reduce map size, adjust loop strength. After this is done we can finally go on about Perks and killers, but maps are the biggest problem in DbD. IF i knew , if i had 100% guarantee, that is what BHVR will do then i'd go all in on MMR but i don't so MMR alone won't solve anything. Fixing Maps will make more people wanna play killer aswell, so there i fixed killer mostly aswell.
Stupid easy Solutions that for the most part involve number tweaking but BHVR always refuses to them, they rather introduce Bloodlust to fix infinites, then breakable walls, isntead of fixing Totems they gave Undying... BHVR in 5 years has never fixed anything they just added more problems to the mix to replace older problems.
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Two groups here:
- group is scared they'll be matched with people that now how to counter their unskilled but 'effective' play (aka toxic swfs fearing ruthless, scummy killers, and ruthless scummy killers fearing toxic swfs), which would be great for everyone who actually tries to play fair and show they have skill
- people with skill fearing that the mechanics will start matching them with scummy killers/toxic swfs because the mechanics somehow recognized their nonsense as 'skill', which would suck for everyone.
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By not having MMR that works it's denying people who want to play competitively. It give's a reason to grind and try and get better like every other competitive game ( For those saying "but DBD isn't competitive" it's a PvP game so it's naturally competitive...), I bet we would see a lot less people DC'ing after they get downed or looped for multiple gens if rank actually meant something.
Just because a game gets MMR doesn't mean you cant chill, that is your choice and it wont affect your gameplay, it only means you wont be rank 1 anymore if you don't try or you are not good.
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I just don't trust Behavior to accurately determine skill.
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