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What is fun (baby don't hurt me).
What is fun?
What makes a match fun for you? Is it the reward of ranking up? Is it the 'journey'- the experience of playing the match? Is it successfully killing off four survivors without a single gen getting done? Is it getting all the gens done with no survivors killer? Mori killing survivors? Key escapes?
What makes the game fun for most of the players? What sort of 'interactive churn' makes the game more fun for ALL players in a match, the killer AND the survivors so that all 5 want to play the next match?
What are your thoughts on this question?
Comments
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Fun for me depends on the role.
As survivor, a fun game for me involves one where both me and the killer have displayed their best skill, be it I win or I lose. If it's a long, 15 minute match, where our team have to make risky, desperate plays to get the last gen done while the killer is on a 12 hook hunt; if the resources are critically low and we have to get this gen done or we're all dead- that kind of stress makes it fun for me. What isn't fun is being downed in 15 seconds because of either poor map or killer design (there are many offenders to this list) only to be camped and tunneled at 5 gens.
I like to play the video game, thank you very much.
Which is one of the reasons I really hate killers who lack 4v1 pressure but have good 1v1 pressure- at least hate to face. Their counter is boring- holding M1 is dull.
As killer, the same sort of standards apply. I like long games where both sides can show skill and adept to how they play. Have I used my ability too much, so the survivor expects it and prepars to dodge, or do they think I'll know they're preparing for me to do that and instead keep running around the loop, greeding it so that if I were to not swing I'd get the down but if I used my power I'd miss? I like giving everyone in the game a chance to at least play the game they paid for instead of having everyone dead by the 3 minute mark (the occasional game like that is fun but if every game I had was done in 4 minutes I'd hate it).
I don't think this applies to everyone, but I like it when the matches are long and everyone gets the chance to participate their particular skillset.
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I like your last sentence. This is what I think of as 'churn'. Everyone's ability to participate and have some kind of (non-dull) experience. It sucks as the killer to get "gen-rushed" and it sucks as the survivor to get 1-2-3 hooked even if maybe your skill isn't up to the killer's level. I wonder if there's some way to make the game fun even under these circumstances or if the best course is to get out and on to the next match...
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I have the most fun when I'm able to interact meaningfully with the other players - especially in unexpectedly friendly or camaraderie-laden ways - and when I neither dominate nor get dominated. I like having to put effort in to get results; I don't like when my effort doesn't pay off and I don't like when I get results without effort, because then there's very little engagement for me. I may be a weirdo for this, but I despise getting 4ks unless it's a situation where I stopped the last survivors at the gates, or caught a final gen at the cusp of popping. A 4k at 3+ gens remaining is just depressing. I also feel bad about 4-man escapes when the killer got <=4 hooks.
As survivor, this means not getting removed from the game immediately, having chases where I manage to stall the killer, getting some difficult objectives done or enabling their completion, and rescuing a teammate (as in bodyblocking, luring the killer away from them, or a smart BT save, not just routine safe unhooks in a dark corner of the map.) I'm happy when I get to make meaningful contributions that any bot with a mouse key couldn't have accomplished. As a killer, this means mindgaming and successful predictions, having chases that last some time but don't stretch upwards of a minute, not getting significantly outplayed, having the opportunity to be merciful and acknowledge funny moments, and not having the survivors blatantly screw with me. When survivors BM me, any fun I'm having immediately vanishes, because I want to have fun with other people, not be the targeted source of entertainment. At that point I'm no longer playing casually and instead playing to punish, which isn't an enjoyable state for me even when I get what I want.
I enjoy befriending survivors as killer because it's just so incongruous and adorable - something about the lack of clear communication resulting in awkward pantomime between the short people and the tall murder beast. The subversion of the rules really charms me, but I want to play the game to the fullest extent I can before doing so. So if I'm winning too hard, one of my favorite things to do is to start ######### with people (in ways that are confusing but not cruel) and see how they react - like slugging survivors, picking them up and dropping them in a pile, and then leaving so someone else can pick them all up, or following one survivor without attacking them and seeing how long it takes them to stop running.
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Idk, it depends on my mood. Fun is a feeling so I could be enjoying it for the first few times but later the novelty of it all is gone for whatever reason.
I felt the same way with minecraft, I spent a lot of time building dirt houses but eventually that got boring. Then I learned how to sculpt for the gods & that was exciting for a while, until it wasn't. Haven't touched that game in over a month or two.
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I wonder if some solution like... slower gen progress for more hooks or inability to do certain things for being hooked more would be something interesting. So the survivors don't die, exactly, just see a diminishing return for play... maybe unless they do so in a co-ordinated fashion with less-hooked survivors.
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It'd be pretty strange to have a slasher game where the killer can't actually kill anyone...
I think that if you were to do this and hooks still remained a meaningful way for the killer to make progress, you would ultimately have the same result - a player who gets 'tunneled' under this system would still be around, but their ability to contribute to the team was nerfed so hard so early that they may as well be dead and in the next game, because they're mostly dead weight in this one. All you could really do is have chases and stall the killer, and killers aren't going to target players who can barely touch gens when they could be chasing someone who's still a threat to them.
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Skilled killers, not being tunneled, having team mates that aren’t potatoes, having a fun, silly match once in a while (like a match where we play ‘tag’ booping the pig’s snoot).
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The challenge of it and pretty much nothing else. A victory is meaningless unless the outcome was in contention. If I know the outcome in the first minute or so, the match is already boring. I don't want a blowout. I want it to go down as close to the wire as possible.
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This is also a great quote - I wonder how to make sure to design a game where there's contention for all five players would even be done, without someone feeling either stomped on or like they are the one doing the stomping, even with a great disparity of skill.
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Yeah, this is a good point. I fully understand why I am not a game designer :D
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As killer it's either getting deviousness points (making use of my power and catching survivors off guard), like seeing people run into my traps as trapper. But I also enjoy goofing off with survivors. Playing clown with only the yellow potion and just spamming it for direct hits nonstop with the no perks or addons except for the party bottle. As doctor just spamming the shock on one person over and over and doing nothing else.
As trapper I'll bring two bag add ons and then gather all of my traps into one central location (killer shack for example) and lure survivors there. Then watch what shenanigans ensue. Spamming plagues vomit is fun too.
As survivor I enjoy holding Victor hostage for as long as possible. Booping the snoot. I enjoy dropping pallets in front of the doctor so I can spin in circles screaming while he shocks me from a safe distance.
I don't need to "win" to have fun. Either shenanigans or moments of skill paying off are what I play for.
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What’s fun as killer for me? Bamboozle Freddy. >:)
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I'd say a game where both sides are competent enough and where neither plays in a toxic way (facecamping on the very first hook, T-bagging and clicky-clicky, mostly interactions between both sides rather than a playstyle really) is usually rather interesting at least and can be fun most of the time, although RNG such as which maps you get can easily give an advantage to either side so it can be a bit frustrating at times (cough Nurse on Lery's cough).
Now if you get a somewhat balanced map with such conditions then it can be very fun in my opinion, so it mostly comes down to experience and behavior (get it ?)
Although I have to say nothing will ever be funnier to me than playing Scratched Mirror Myers on Lery's and see those poor survivor stop moving when I pop out of a corner cause they had a heart attack, I don't see him often but it's always very entertaining somehow.
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You sound like my kind of player. I've done birthday party Clown before; Trapper minefield sounds like a ton of fun and I'll try that one out. In return, may I suggest Get Off My Lawn Hag? Take Disfigured Ear and place all of your traps in shack/main building/a high traffic area, or on a map like Lery's/Midwich, in a straight line through a corridor. Then laugh hysterically when a survivor runs through the hell zone. Maybe save 2-3 traps for normal gameplay and relocate your death house after it gets cleared to keep survivors on their toes.
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Well it is tricky in a 4v1 to be sure. :) But as a Survivor as long as I did my best and my team wins and they are still in contention even if I go out before the rest, that works for me too. There is no "I" in team.
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I suppose like anyone, I hate when I get caught first, then basically caught again and again before I can get anything useful done. Part of me knows that this is just a sucky match where I am likely doing poorly, but it does feel like bad luck can abound in this game. I also like to feel like I contributed 'enough' before I am out of the picture!
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OMG That's GENIUS!!! LMAO I am definitely trying that! Thank you for the suggestion 🤣🤣
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For me, in either role, run is when everything is as fair as can be and no one is playing toxic. No t-bagging, tunneling or camping from the start, no clicky clicky flashlight vault spamming come get me survivor, and everyone is around equal skill.
The equal skill is the biggest factor. Its not fun stomping my opponent in either role.
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A fun match? Uhh, a match is fun:
- When people don't sweat to an extreme level.
- When people aren't playing like #########.
- When I'm not facing a Deathslinger, Doctor, Freddy or a Clown. (There are more boring killers. But they can be fun sometimes)
- When I'm not on a boring map.
- When the killer doesn't use Franklin's. Gosh, I hate that perk.
Basically, red rank = Big Boring
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As killer, I find close matches exciting and enticing.
As survivor, I don’t like blowouts, but if I’m the main attention for the whole game and I’m looping like a god, that is a ton of fun for me.
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The constant unpredictable nature of each match, and that chaos can break out at any moment.
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- When I make meaningful progress toward a reward -- rift challenge, daily, collecting iri shards, etc.
- When everyone is at about the same skill level, and there's a lot of back and forth in the match.
- When something funny and unexpected happens.
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Best fun I have had as survivor was in KYF against a friend running fragrant tuft of hair and judith myers tombstone. He chased me during egc The entity took me because he ate every pallet at Gideon.
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- Almost anything that isn’t the objective or main goal.
- When unexpected things happen.
- Trying out new builds.
- Anything new, really.
Nowadays, I try not to take DBD too seriously.
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