People Like This is Exactly Why An Auto-Ban System Cannot Work
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I just keep messages to Friends only on my playstation, works great for this game honestly
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I don't think they realize it goes for them too.
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If they report you for unsportsmanlike conduct regarding tunneling and camping, just report them back for unsportsmanlike conduct by harassing you out of game after match and trying to bully you with a reporting threat, then move on. If you get in the habit of doing this when the "auto-ban" system kicks in, you will actually be helping in weeding out Karen survivors like that with no penalty, because someone who reports you for tunneling and camping is going to report others for the same, and the automated system is going to pick up on that.
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Well, thats kinda easy to miss. When survivors have the same skin and there is no real hook counter. Killers could easily go for the wrong survivor.
Basically, the excuse that killers have a different counter to prevent tunneling, is back firing.
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This is why I'm frightened of the auto-ban system. I don't know the portion of reports that come in from these kinds of people, but I would guess that it's extremely significant judging by how many people seem to think this behavior is in fact ban-worthy. People who camp/tunnel/use unfun strategies that are within the rules are going to get reported to high hell, and if anything, the system is going to galvanize these reporters on the belief that they'll have better chances at removing the players they don't like.
I just don't see how this could possibly go right.
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So is flashlight clicking a reportable offense? Doesn't show it there
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His Nephew must be really good at killer, damn
Good post though as usual Pulsar.
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Yer jokin'...Right?
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Look, I don't like unfun tactics as much as most other players and I'll only ever use them as BM retaliation when I'm playing killer... but you're going to be called out for spreading misinformation. You claimed these things were reportable when it has been long-held and established in the official rules that they are not, and you're still digging in your heels when given proof otherwise.
I also can't really take anyone seriously when they purport that their side is barely hanging on by a thread, the other side has all the power all the time, and that the other side is a monumental great evil that pesters BHVR to give them everything they want and campaigns against widespread fairness to continue to rack up easy wins against the poor, bullied [my side]s. There's balancing issues all around. It's widely understood that killers can stomp solos or non-optimized players, but at the highest levels of play, killers are very much at the mercy of survivors playing optimally. Buffs to killers ######### over solo survivors and buffs to survivors ######### over killers whose ranking puts them up against god squads. When I see people complaining that killer or survivor is too hard... generally, they're both correct and they have valid complaints. But the lack of understanding that the other side has it just as bad is poisonous and just brews the sort of unhelpful, tribal resentment like yours, or the people you rail against, which gets nowhere and helps nobody.
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I agree with you 100%.
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Im expecting to get banned for simply playing certain killers
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No. You should only report if someone is actually griefing your game like taking the game hostage by body blocking or hiding for at least 15 minutes. Teabagging is in the same category as flashlight clicking and you can't report for teabagging.
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This is why after the auto ban system goes through, I'm not even going to bother doing anything but maybe typing "gg" and clicking the "continue" button .2 seconds after my match. I'm not gonna let people like this even attempt to get to me, because it's not worth the time to let some miserable schmuck get their sick joy out of ruining my day.
Just pray to your based god that BHVR adds in an even harsher punishment than anything an autoban would give for people who are proven to be falsely abusing it.
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Source of your information? Because it's hard to blame people for thinking it's an auto-ban feature when it was literally said word for word that they are working on an "auto-ban" system during the 5th anniversary livestream about an hour in.
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People who report for camping / tunneling should be perma banned from the game without question I don't care who you are try to change my mind on this.
In the very least disable their ability to report.
Here's what needs to happen with an automated report system - Reports need to be limited per user so they only have a set amount of reports a week. That way they'll only use them where it matters. If there's not enough reports weekly BHVR can tone it up don't give me the excuse "BUT WHAT IF I RUN OUT OF REPORTS".
Chances are you waste them if you run out.
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"But he's just doing his objective".
At least that's what killers get told, when survivors rush gens. Completing all gens by the time the killer got 3 or 4 hooks.
Killers have to resort to slugging, camping and tunneling. Because whenever they don't do that, survivors get a 4 man escape, spam "gg ez", and recommend the killer to "just apply pressure". Without thinking at the consequences, that getting someone out early, creates pressure.
So killers are actually doing exactly what survivors recommend.
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I primarily play solo survivor. And yes, I get trashed almost constantly. Vast majority of games, I don't make it out. It was different before I hit red ranks, but red ranked solos are at a severe disadvantage because the killers they're up against are skilled enough to handle survivors with considerably better coordination, so the ones without coordination typically fall apart unless they are most or all skilled enough at looping to buy the rest of the solos enough time. Lower ranks are up against killers that make enough mistakes to skate by, but that's not the case with the cream of the crop.
When I play on comms, with friends who are casual but decently skilled, I perform much better and my escape rate hits a sweet spot of about 50%, and many of my deaths come from sacrificing myself at the endgame when I could have escaped, just didn't want to leave someone behind.
When I play killer, I routinely get paired with survivors that traipse all over me. I do fine against solos and casual SWFs, but there are teams that I feel completely powerless against and no amount of reflection shows me a point where I could have played differently and salvaged the match. When you have several survivors that know exactly how to loop every structure in reach, you will be hard-pressed to down them in time to stop gens.
I'd advise you to play killer in turn, since you seem to believe that killers never need to do any of these because they're very powerful against solos, and some more experience would help dissolve that notion. Your guidelines won't hurt you at low-mid ranks, but at higher ranks, I'd be extremely surprised if you managed to keep up with survivors without slowdown perks and without applying pressure to a single survivor above others, or multiple survivors at once. You'll do fine against solos and get destroyed by skilled SWFs. I don't want to be forced to use tactics that are blatantly unfun to go against, so I stay out of high ranks, but I still get matched against them pretty often. And I run slowdown perks because if I don't run them, and then don't try to remove players quickly or make saves difficult for survivors, all the gens pop in the blink of an eye.
No comment on the addons. I agree some addons are busted, but get the feeling you and I would disagree on which those are and how many of those there are. Again, it doesn't feel like you play very much killer. I'd like to hear about your experiences if you do.
And survivors are able to perform plenty of unfun, frustrating actions in their own right - see sabotage, hook bombing, flashlight saves and firecrackers, bodyblocking, coordinated Head Ons, map offerings and entire team builds dedicated to exploiting that map. There are times where I'm forced to slug 3/4 of the team just to hook one person, and I had no intention of doing that, but they forced my hand because they refused to let me pick a player up if I left them standing. If it's not fun, and creates 5-minute matches where nobody gets any points, why should survivors split up and hammer gens, or 'exploit' powerful loops that the killer cannot defeat in a timely manner? Why should survivors be allowed to flashlight spam, tbag at gates, bodyblock the killer with a protection perk when the killer is blatantly not tunneling and wants to chase someone else, or 99 a gen and then spend ten minutes bullying a killer too far below their skill level to pose a threat? Both sides are trying to win, and some of the tactics they use aren't fun for the other players. I don't enjoy any of it, but I have yet to see a proposed solution for most of these problems that wouldn't completely screw over sportsmanlike players that tactically have no other choice but to do certain things if they want to continue to perform competitively.
Like, I'll (mentally) denigrate a killer who chooses to tunnel a player out of the game at 5 gens, because that suggests to me that they're insecure about their skill, want an easy game, and are kind of a dick. But if a killer wants to remove a player from the game at 2 gens, I can't be mad about it, because that's the smartest thing for them to do to regain control of the match. If a killer didn't have that option, the game would shift drastically in favor of survivors at the higher levels, because killers have far less ability to regain lost momentum and make a comeback if something goes wrong in the early game. Same with 4-man slugging at the start vs 4-man slugging because everyone was running around a hook save, or because it was the only way to stop a gen from popping. The killer's trying to win and has no obligation to humor a survivor that he sees or knows is heading to a certain location; as long as I had a chance to play the game, I won't complain about what tactics they used. And if I physically block the killer and herd my injured teammate out the exit gates, or force a hit with Borrowed Time - I'm sorry, but it wasn't anything personal.
There's no point in telling me that these tactics are mean and unfun. I agree, conditionally (if it's reactive, it's understandable, if it's proactive and the killer's main strategy is to camp players or chase them out of the game ASAP, it's scummy.) When I play survivor, I'm ineffably polite and try to give a free kill to killers who get thrashed, and as killer, I rarely kill anyone and usually play with the survivors instead if I hit the point where I dominate the match and my victory is guaranteed. Unless there is an achievement I want to get, or the survivor went out of their way to antagonize me, I will always pick the nice option over the effective one. But that's just my choice and what makes me happy. The powers that be have decreed that these tactics are all fair within the scope of the game, and you can't change that. Nobody's under any obligation to play considerately, draining as that can be, and personally, I see way more targeted, blatant nastiness out of survivors than I do killers. Even as a survivor. Most of the toxicity I see is from my teammates, not the killer.
I feel like you're only seeing a small portion of the picture and trying to dictate how the whole picture should look using only your subset of experiences. Your proposals would heavily unbalance things on the other side of the seesaw. No, the game isn't balanced right now, but what you're suggesting would not help things, only break them more and ban a large portion of the playerbase for daring to play effectively over compassionately.
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Even if its not bannable, camping and tunneling still ridiculous at rank 1, yes. Why you need so much attention to come here to post this ? To me this is the typical "look at me im better than those average mad players ive ruined the experience by playing unsportlike, im so superior" useless shaming ..
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This forum is 80% killers main, you can tell the truth like this but no one will listen to you :/
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Any idiot can see why that system won't work, so expect bhvr to go through with it.
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I know bhvr can make some bad mistakes but this won't be one of them.
Everyone who played this game and have common sense knows that auto bans from hitting certain number of reports can't work in the game where you are reported all the time just for playing.
People shouldn't worry this much over it. Why would bhvr want everyone banned from the game?
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It would be if he wasn't making a point with it. If he just wanted to show off a bunch of survivors that got mad, it'd be a "congratulations...?" kind of thread. What he's saying is that look, people will self-righteously report me for things that are within the rules because they don't like how I played, even when they know that they aren't against the rules, and this is bad because the auto-ban system will flag me and possibly take action for volume of reports. And these people know that. And then you have several people on this thread confirming that and espousing that belief - 'okay, so maybe it's not against the rules, but I still think it's unfair and I think players who do them need to be removed immediately.'
It also sounds like he wasn't particularly paying attention to what he was doing, and that any tactics were incidental on his part, not planned. Whether or not he was doing them excessively, at what point in the match he was doing them, and how justified the survivors are for being angry, I can't say (just today I had a teammate tell the killer 'it was a sad day you crawled out of the abortion bucket' not for camping or tunneling, but for not switching targets when a healthy, zero-hooked teammate tried to get in his way to save him. I don't trust anyone to have good judgement in this game until proven otherwise.), but the survivors in the match apparently got 4 gens done, so it wasn't a kiddie slaughter.
People are scared of the autoban system, and this is the main reason why. That's the point.
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I've played solo survivor and yeah thats not true
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Yup this is why the auto ban system shouldn't be implemented. Its going to punish people who use different play styles. But the devs are just gonna go with "well shouldn't have played toxic"lol this is why its getting harder to enjoy this game. Never listen to the community.
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For the record, Sluzzy is actually a Nurse main.
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This is what they said on stream.
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^
Just sayin'.
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Yup!
They are working on an auto-ban feature that takes action after a specific number threshold is reached.
When pushed on the Forums, they have NOT denied this. They've said it isn't finished and that you won't be banned if you follow the rules, which leads me to believe that's exactly how it will work.
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"We are going to take action" not the machine or the system is going to take action.
I do agree that calling it auto-ban feature was a poor choice of words
Honestly also common sense. I know we like to point at the devs from time to time but they are not stupid. They also know that if a machine banned people for false reports it would kill the game
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im expecting to be banned for maining hag and spirit
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That's literally all I said, is that you can't blame people for calling it an auto ban feature when it was literally called exactly that. And lets be real, I don't think everybody trusts them when they say they will take action, and not the system they're creating. Either way, saying they will "take action" if players receive a certain amount of negative reports... I don't think that sounds much better.
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I wish I could see their reaction when they read that
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Must have missed the repeatedly stated fact (by devs and mods) none of those are reportable or ban worthy.
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If tunneling and camping are to be removed, would you accept to making the games last longer?
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Absolutely. I enjoy longer games as long as they are fair to both sides. There is a reason spirt is my least favorite killer in the game: she ends games super quick. Quick games are not fun at all and long games are way better
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How would you propose making the games last longer?
If Killers are being asked to 12-hook every game, matches would need to take 10+ minutes at a minimum.
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Slow down gens a bit is the first thing we do. 5-10% slower to start and the numbers can be changed if need be. Also killers like nurse and spirt need changes to prevent them from ending chases and games super quick just based on the nature of their powers. Make hatch only available if there is one survivor left and never any other time that way keys can’t end the game early but also allow keys to instantly open chests. Finally make things like a totem counter base kit so survivors have other objectives then gens to do without having to waste a perk slot for it. That’s just the start, there are many more ways to slow down games while also increasing the quality of games
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Precisely. People like this are merely one of many examples. If the auto-ban system ends up working the same way people think it will, then I would say 95% of the playerbase is going to get banned.
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I agree
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question is who draws the short straw and by that I mean who gets banned first
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Every one who happens to main a top tier killer.
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oh. good to know
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Yeah... And we are literally a Freddy main talking to a Spirit main...
I have a bad feeling about this.
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oh boy...
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:( I wrote something to this discussion for around 1-2 hours ago... and it is still not visible... for some reason (don't know which one) my text has to be checked according to a notification...
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uff, I read the long discussion here and my thoughts are:
-this is off-topic discussion - some of the things written here have nothing to do with the intension of the one who made the
thread.So I will split up my thoughts in "on topic" and "off-topic"
-it shows the community and that lots of people are right to be worried about players abusing an "auto-ban-system". I
think this, because the DBD rules were posted a few times which made clear:
tunneling, slugging and camping is NO reason for a ban... but some people are ignoring this completely and still saying- it is ban reason..
-the quotes of the stream (i saw the stream, too)didn't make clear in which situations negative reports are going to cause an
auto-ban by a bot or by a support member of the team who makes the decision.
-I think "newer" players are not afraid about what happens when dbd teams says "we know what we are going to do
and it will will be great- trust us" and experienced players or players who are playing the game since a few years just hear in those moments "we did a pretty good job so far"-(thougths: yeah, they fix 1 thing and 3 others are crashing... they fix 3 things... 10 things are crashing.. gameruining bugs= oh,let's fix skin sets and cosmetics first...) - so I think that everyone knows they WANT to do a good and fair ban system and are working on it... but at least... the question is: how long will that last? how many people are getting banned for no reason until they realize something is broken?" etc...
So back to the topic ...
When I remember correctly, it is like this with the votes: 0,25 survivor vote after the game, 1,0 killer vote. Some things have
been automated for a long time like - DC statistics or balance between positive votes (thumbs up) and down votes. So I think, they try to get out hackers faster in the first line- actually it takes ages, video reports etc, until a hacker is getting banned. But most players are reporting hackers, so I think they try to do something against hackers in a more efficent way and in this situation that means- that a person gets lots of reports because of hacking in the shortest possible time- so the "auto-ban"system prevent the player from continuing. I don't think they have the intention to "auto-ban" a player permanently by a bot for "bad behaviour". When I understood the 5th anniversary stream correctly, I think the "auto-ban"system just bans temporarely- and perma bans are just possible by a team member of BHVR. So in my opinion, this is a good idea.
BUT... when you see the temp bans for DC when game crashes or steam is down while you are in a match or when the game has issues and kicks you out.. .and how long you are banned for nothing sometimes and have to wait, I think it is possible the auto-ban system they want to implement -will be first tested on a test server... and then live... ignoring any mistakes on test server and I think there is a high chance the "auto ban" system will be a mess in the first weeks and that a lots of accounts of innocent players will be banned for a while.
The thing about the "camping"- ban reason... (just to make clear what exactly causes the different sight of the rules): some years ago, dbd team said in a live stream it is part of this game that one side is not satisfied because both sides have different goals and just one side can win. For winning a game everything is allowed as long as you are not bugabusing by purpose or hacking. Some months later they said they are aware of toxic behaviour and don't like this and that in some cases it is ban reason. In the list of ban reasons for temp and perma bans is explained that lots of gamestyles which are not "nice" are not a ban reason- but on another explanation they said, too: Griefing a game is ban reason- and camping CAN be a ban reason - BUT just when the same killer meets the same surv in a couple of games and the killer focus on this one survivor from the beginning of the game and camp him in every match they meet without a reason- just for ruining his game experience- that is reason for a ban. (to be honest: sometimes you meet the same players or lobbys 2-3 times in 6-7 hours, but most time you just meet the same players 1-2 x in some hours- ... so this situation is very unlikely. This is similar with the discussions with the use of flashlight macro if it is bannable reason or not- i had a discussion with the support some weeks ago about this- and they made clear that this depends on the situation and the use of this flashlight macro if it is reason for perma ban or not. So at this point- sometimes, players have different points of views because there are different statements of BHVR. But nobody should close the eyes and just see the "own" point of view when some people are checking facts in official statements of the team - like the actual ban rules.
So.. back to off-topic discussion here:
I want to add something- i play both sides but i prefer playing killer. I did my rank 1 achievement as killer as pig without camping and tunneling just when surv forced me to (you are main surv and now think: that is not possible?? YES it is- run into killer with DS or BT and block him to hit another surv... maybe start to tbag behind pallets or follow the killer with clicking flashlight or jumping windows to just make noise - or have a key and camp the hatch or near the hatch and let the killer realize that you wait for the other mate to die... OR .. don't ever leave a hooked person, run around, make scratchmarks and rescue a mate in front of the killer instead of running away in a chase ... in my opinion this often means you are begging for getting tunneled or camped). So when surv are playing fair- I stay fair, too- but it is a way much harder to get rank 1 with fair play- but it is more fun- but- there is NO reason to say as killer "you have to camp at 5 gens, otherwise you will lose every game". As I did rank 1 achievement on surv, I played from rank 4 to 1 solo because it was easier in my opinion- when you play with a full team- you sometimes take more risks or die because you try to save every mate that everyone can leave the game etc... when I play solo I don't try to rescue when the risk is high to get killed after this or run into killer by purpose just to help a mate... or to help someone on the hook with active Noed when nobody finds the totem and killer stays near the hooked person. I agree that both sides can be balanced but also unbalanced. It depends on different things- is a swf coordinated and experienced or do they have a new player with them? Are randoms playing perfect together or farming each other?Which killer do you chose? Just a killer for a daily or your preferred killer? Is your map good for the killer you chose or not? On which map are you playing?
Not every perk build is effective again every killer/surv. Which bugs are occuring? Are you just doing a quest or do you want to play just for fun or are you just playing for a win? So in my opinion some people are just looking at one perspective... sometimes it helps to change the point of view. When I play DBD, it is a good game for me in this situations:
1. Killer didn't facecamp at 4 or 5 gens left. When he facecamps at 2 gens because he has not much hooks or is about losing the game, I don't care because he has the right to try to win.
2. Survivors are not behaving toxic- (no I don't mean good players who know how to loop perfectly or how to use a flashlight for saving a mate, I mean really useless toxic behaviour not just skilled survs)
3. Sometimes I love meming around and just enjoy funny games- so when I play pig- I don't kill anyone who booped my snoot at 5 or 4 gens left. (after this it depends on situation) - when I play ghostface and I start to tbag a surv on a gen- and he tbags back, or when a surv give up or tries to show me he has a quest to do and bring me gifts etc. or sit together on a campfire, running in slow motion around a tree, or when you are stuck as killer wondering about reason for it and seeing a claudette in front of you.. with your red light in her back not moving.. just going away because you remember she is invisible, etc
4. When there are 2x party streamers and both sides are able to do above 15k points or behaving non-toxic- so no camping or tbagging, clicky clicky, tunneling from first do death hook.
When it is a good game, it isn't important who win or lose in my opinion- I have lots of fun when i play a killer which I know how to use and I have to force a strong team with challenging chases and kills and when I play surv I don't care if I die or not when it is challenging. When I play swf and we force a killer who is much weaker, 1-2 stay into the endgame most times and give him the kills. When I play surv and we have 6-7 rounds with first person getting facecamped at 4 or 5 gens ... we finish the other gens and go out... but this doesn't make fun. But in this case, I just leave chat and after some rounds in a row like this I leave the game or switch on the other side (If you don't want to get camped, play killer :D). BUT... at higher ranks.. I don't play a killer for practising because in 80% surv will start to bully you when they notice you are not able to get game control. Beside of that a killer is not allowed to decide IF or WHO he let out in the end of the game.( When I play surv, I really hate, when another one DCs or is getting kicked out of the game- when i play killer, i hate this, too. When the other 3 are not annoying me with BM, I don't kill the others or just one in the endgame, but not every time-depends on my mood- sometimes surv forget killers are not your friends- and sometimes killer forget the surv have to do the gens to get out. But sometimes I am not sure if I die as solo surv more through killer hands or with the help of another survivor... but I can't blame a killer when another player "help" him with his playstyle. ( When I don't play in a full team, I use different perks- part to protect myself of random players)
Sometimes I let the one with the key out and then close the hatch - and kill the other (s) without key- most cases I get flamed after this and then i simply say: Well, ONE Key for ONE surv... not ONE for two- this doesn't make any sense. I got flamed because I let last one out because the choice I made was not like the surv would've wanted to. I got accused a few times because of "camping" or "tunneling" or "op"-Perks even it was not like this- as surv with a group we got flamed by killer because we used BT and blocked a hit, so he couldn't camp... or why we played defensive and hided after he tried to facecamp first hooked person at 5 gens left...and a lot of misunderstood situations- There are so many situations where you get flamed or threated in a bad way -but on BOTH sides. Some comments on steam profile are "not nice" too- (threats, insults, etc...sometimes from "friends"of the people you played with) . Lots of players are writing after the chat -most times survivors-: "enjoy your ban for tunneling!"-"reported for not giving hatch!" - "reported for camping as I ran around on the hook and you didn't let me save my mate"..."reported for using flashlight!" "you noob! my mate is just rank 18 and you killed her on high rank- I report you!" - and you have to know as killer if you are forcing a full SWF-squad or random players.. well.. I think it was nearly 50/50 SWF-squads and random players .. etc.. so... some rounds are really fun where everyone behaves fair- where a "gg" is when you win just because one side played better and you have a nice chat after the game or make new friends for joining - but 80% are toxic during a game or in the after chat- so yes, I am afraid ,too, that lots of people will abuse an "auto ban system" if they are able too- or report for random reasons because they are just mad. And I don't hink on this forum it is killer-sided or surv-sided- the problem is that some people are just willing to see own point of view. When you are camping as killer at early game it is as annoying as a surv following you with a clicky clicky, when you use a key - it can happen a killer is outplaying you and avoiding situation you can use it, if you are using DS/BT/unbreakable/XY+insta heal/purple flashlight it is not toxic but allowed- if you use BBQ (fun fact: most killer are using this perks bc of the xp, the aura range reading is just a nice side effect for lots of killer players), NOED, Devour, Nurse Call and good add-ons it is not toxic, too- it is just given by the game to follow your goals in the game. I hope when the "auto-ban"system will be in the game that BHVR will have a live support to delete "unwarranted bans"...but that this will help to get hackers faster out of the game -hackers are ruining much more game experience than BM. I have not decided yet, if I think it is possible that in the first weeks hackers will continue to play for weeks and people which are kicked out of the game because of server issues are getting banned for a really long time until they fixed this... think there will be a lots of bp for the community as excuse and lots of new skins to buy after a unwarranted ban is deleted...
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IDK if you tunneled and camped them you should expect them to be salty.
I play killer for the chase tho and unfortunately that isnt optimal against really good survivors.
Either way you need to expect the salt. I dont really trash talk killers post game because to me a killer who camps and hard tunnels is probably just not confident in chase.
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I don't know what's worse....
People who still believe that BE is dumb enough to believe reports on things that are totally allowed within the confines of the games
Or dumbasses who believe you can report for that to begin with.
Look, I know BE makes mistakes, but they've been pretty lax with their bans even when going through them manually.... what makes people think their system is going to be so strict? If anything, they're going to tailor their system around what they already do in the way of the hand-reviewed reports.
I mean, think about it. If review of certain actors shows that they give off frivilous reports... don't you think they'd build a system that ignores these bad-actors who give off excessive reports?
FFS
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