Nemesis is not weak, he is a B tier killer
It’s funny how during the PTB, most killer mains on here talked about how good it was to have a new decently strong killer after Trickster. But as soon as he’s been released, a huge amount of people on here are saying he’s bottom tier, without even trying to take some time to learn how to play him.
It’s honestly hilarious to see the 180 that has happened on here. The speed boost he gives upon contamination is extremely minor, as he is very strong in a majority of the loops in the game. He has anti-loop, game slowdown with the vaccine (not a lot, but it also gives him info when a survivor collects a vaccine), zombies that slow down gens and bodyblock for him, etc. He has a lot going for him, and to think you can master him in a day is extremely entitled. His power is very strong, and he has downsides like a balanced killer should have.
Also, you only need to hit survivor’s three times a maximum of four times a game, as the vaccines are limited. He is a B tier killer, and one of the most balanced released in a long time.
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If Nem is B Tier then every killer is being over rated.
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Nope. He’s stronger than Hillbilly, Ghostface, Trapper, Pig, Clown, Legion, Myers, Trickster at the very least. All of them need buffs, Nemesis is completely fine where he is, minor QoL changes and he never needs to be touched again.
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Yeah, Nemesis is really strong later in the game once you infect all survivors. Nemesis just released and people are jumping to conclusions. He has tracking, automatic map pressure, zoning, and the ability to counter windows and pallets. He's got so much in his kit, no way in hell is he trash-tier.
He takes a bit more skill than most killers which is probably why people are struggling to play him.
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100% agree. I feel like people are too embarrassed to say they aren’t good at him right now, when that would be completely fine as he’s just been released. He has many tools, and they all need to be used effectively.
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I think a lot of the problem comes from people's idea of what Nemesis is from RE games vs what a killer in DbD can be. Fans want rocket launchers and an unstoppable killer, regardless of how broken it would be
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I disagree, he is C tier, average at best. He isn't weak but he is nothing special, maybe around doc's level. You can do well with him but a good team will beat you every time.
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A lot of people have been comparing him to Plague, and how it’s unfair that she doesn’t give a speed boost, but he does. The major difference is that Plague can take MUCH longer to injure survivors than Nemesis does. If a survivor is on a decent loop, it can take a lot of vomiting to get them fully infected. When Nemesis hits a survivor, that’s half the work (and only needs to hit survivors 3 times at a max of 4 times a game), and will absolutely have the potential to injure faster than Plague, as his power works as an anti-loop. Plague’s vomit is not an anti-loop power, so there is no comparison.
I think Plague is stronger than Nemesis, but to say he shouldn’t give a speed boost because Plague doesn’t is absurd.
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is Nemesis B-Tier, Trapper is B-Tier too. Because they are same level.
Smile my Trapper boi, you are not weak anymore.
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Trapper gives up 3 gens setting up his power, to say he’s on the same level as Nemesis is a hilariously bad take. Why are you not taking enough time to learn how to play him?
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He's pretty good, I found a solid playstyle from playing about 100 or so trials that not many players are talking about so he's my new main.
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Yes he's the only killer in the game who can destroy a pallet and injure you in 1 hit (except for Lopro Chain Billy). He always can force you into a position where you either drop the pallet and get hit along with the pallet being destroyed, or you don't drop the pallet at all and just die anyway.
His tentacle has no warning unlike PH's shockwave ability and has a lingering hitbox. He definitely has the potential to be the best looper in the game outside of Spirit and Nurse.
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"During the ptb (...) most killer mains"
You're forgetting a part of the community here ( maybe the majority even ?) : console.
People are being vocal because they now have access to the content. Simple.
Saying Nemesis is stronger than Trickster is common sense. To me, he is designed for new players and low elo survivors. Nemesis gets stomped by teams/ competent players.
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I agree he is solid B tier from what I have seen so far.
But people do this stuff with every new killer, doesn't even matter if the killer is strong or weak, many people complain about it 2 minutes after release, it needs more time than that.
Nemesis is out 2 days and forum is full of Nemesis weak/Zombies too strong posts smh
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First i was one of the first people claiming he was weak in PTB, go ahead go check my posts if you don't believe me and i'm still standing with that position cause absolutly nothing changed. You're talking about C and D tier killers for the most Part, Being better than that doesn't make him B tier, at most he'd be in high C tier wich he could be.
Nemesis has to hit 3 times and gives 2 speed boosts to survivors in the same chase or be an M1 killer. Is this really stronger than C and D tier? Ghostface can 1 shot and prepare scenarios where the 1 shots guarantee a win, Billy can 1 shot and cover more space with his mobility, Myers can 1 shot and Mori and punish altruism plays, Trickster can get 2 downs on any unhook and punish altruism plays, Legion can get 4 injures faster than virtually any other killer, even Wraith, can apply Broken status effects and prevent healing, can vault pallets wich nobody else can, except Nurse who can also ignore pallets, Pig has more reach with her Dash than Nemesis with tentacle, can redirect her Dash unlike Tentacle, has stealth elements and slowdown, weak and completly RNG but you can make it work, Clown will shut loops down entirely, can wallhack, can get 1 shots aswell. Trapper getting a basement hook is almost a guaranteed kill and Trap placement will work without RNG, well placed Traps will mean hooks.
Tell me how is Nemesis B tier when he is so limited? Zombies are RNG as much as RBT's but you can more reliably force people out of Jigsaw boxes and make them waste time than you can force people into Zombies, 1 shot downs can prevent looping entirely so Nemesis tentacle can't compete with that, Nemesis can only deal with loops at tier 2, he is as weak as Myers is in Tier 1 but Myers getting out of Tier 1 is significantly more important than Nemesis getting out of tier 1, Tier 3 for Myers is significantly more powerful than Tier 3 on Nemesis, meaning Tiering up with Nemesis is less rewarding wich is why getting tier 3 on Myers takes longer cause the rewards are significantly better.
Contaminating Survivors does nothing bad for them, there's no point in contaminating Survivors besides you being forced too if you want to tier up, tiering up via Zombies takes alot of time so you're forced to hit survivors but you're getting nothing of value. Why can't the tentacle break pallets and walls by default? Why is there a tier system when tiering up is basicly pointles?
This isn't a well designed killer and in being so he can't be high tier, it's riddiculous that people thought he was strong to begin with. He was never that strong to begin with but since only PC players can access PTB the amount of people who could play Nemesis was very limited. Now that mor people have access to it you're clearly seeing the other spectrum and his power is being diluted.
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Same could be said about Nemesis, since he needs 3 hits to down a survivor.
But Trapper has a least his traps and can lock down windows/pallets.
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Completely wrong. Nemesis can get two hits with his power extremely easily, he makes most of the loops in the game unsafe, and that shouldn’t come without a drawback.
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People are literally saying he’s the worst killer, it’s not as obvious to think he’s better than trickster as you may believe. It’s fine if people think he’s C tier, but to say he’s even comparable to Trickster, Trapper, etc is absolute insanity.
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Yep, he gets 2 hits and that survivor still isn´t downed.
The hitbox of his whip is to small. He can easily miss even close survivors. Its always worrying when survivors think a killer is in a great spot.
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That’s like saying Nurse’s blinks are hard to hit. When you have a power that negates many loops in the game, there should be some skill required to use it effectively.
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Yeah, I have no idea why some people think he's in the same tier as Trickster & Legion.. that's just ridiculous.
I'd agree that he is a B tier killer and with a few minor buffs, he'd be top-tier in no time because of how much variety his kit has, similar to Freddy. He has chase ability, map information, and map pressure. The only thing he doesn't have is mobility, but you can't have it all.
Maybe some people got overly-excited for him and as a result sees his power as weak, but I mean come on. He just came out, people need to take time to both learn to play against him & as him.
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So just to sum it up: he needs 3 hits, has a high skill ceiling, has no mobility, but is comparable to nurse now?
Wow...
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Never said he was in the same league as Nurse. My point is that if you can easily hit survivors in 95% of loops, that shouldn’t come without a cost.
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Agree 100%. I’m not sure if people expect every killer released to be easy to play, but this outrage is too much.
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He's good but has a few problems, the main ones being infecting survivors giving a speed boost, zombies being jank and hitbox tomfoolery
aside from those he's pretty good
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But he can´t hit survivors easily at loops. Huntress literally has it easier than him during loops. Because his whip hitbox is so small.
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Ah buddy you might want to delete your post because nemesis can't simultaneously hit a survivor and a pallet its one or the other. Also nemesis loses more ground whilst his tentacle is out. Even if his looping is solid which tbh is way to early to say since actual survivor tech is still move awkwardly to make it difficult to hit. I'm sure more nuanced approaches to looping nemsis will be discovered. honestly nemsis just seems like a crappier demo. Just replace zombies with portals. Shred on demo is less slowdown and longer range. It makes so little sense how people can look at the rooster of killers and think nemsis anti loop is one of the best compared to doctor, demo, spirit, nurse, deathslinger, huntress etc.
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Yes he's the only killer in the game who can destroy a pallet and injure you in 1 hit (except for Lopro Chain Billy).No he can't, if hit then it doesn't destroy pallet .
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*he can injure you and break a pallet with the same hit* I misspoke.
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Huntress is easier to predict than Nemesis.
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I actually agree with you, I think for now we should let it sit, I don't think Nem actually needs any buffs.
Right now there is almost zero counterplay to him outside of using that additional infection hit to hold W and waste as much time as possible, he can play most loops and its very hard to dodge the projectile if the killer doesn't panic.
Low walls are an immediate win for him, much like Trickster, but unlike Trickster he can ready his power extremely quickly for hits at pallet drops and can even chew through pallets once at Level 2.
I've played a straight day as survivor and now a straight day as killer and I'll say this.
Nemesis... isn't very fun to play against. Really fun to play as but there's no real counterplay as survivor. If they remove the speed boost on infection hit his kill rate will skyrocket and he'll probably get nerfed anyway.
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Am I the only one who thinks hitting survivors with the tentacle is super easy?
Yes, giving survivors a sprint boost on the first hit seems bad but once they are infected you can end chases with it pretty quick.
That's what I have observed so far.
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I already clarified, that's what I meant. If you don't go down the pallet gets broken and if you go down well then it didn't matter anyway, it's a lose/lose with the same tentacle strike. At least with Pyramid Head if he misses it won't take a pallet.
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It’s funny how during the PTB, most killer mains on here talked about how good it was to have a new decently strong killer after Trickster. But as soon as he’s been released, a huge amount of people on here are saying he’s bottom tier, without even trying to take some time to learn how to play him.It’s honestly hilarious to see the 180 that has happened on here.I don't know where you got this impression, I never heard anyone call him strong at that point nor in current day.
The speed boost he gives upon contamination is extremely minor, as he is very strong in a majority of the loops in the game.The speed boost is actually pretty major, I have used zombies keenly to make major distance by using them as free sprint bursts because being contaminated really isn't a threat. It is simply a gateway for his power to actually be effective on you.
He has anti-loop,On most loops, safe loops and good loops are still remarkably safe, at at least most of them. A good amount are hard for the survivors to play if you have Bamboozle, but still a good team of survivors will pose a problem.
game slowdown with the vaccine (not a lot, but it also gives him info when a survivor collects a vaccine),Not at all, there is no trade off for getting the vac. You spend 10 seconds tops getting the vaccine, but now you get for it the chance to use a zombie as a sprint burst if you want, or nullify the killers power allowing you to make one free mistake.
How is that slowing the game down if it helps you during chase, and gives you a extra life in these two situations??
zombies that slow down gens and bodyblock for him, etc.Assuming they're AI doesn't bug and they start walking/running in place at the invisible seems on the map which happens quite often. Or get stuck on random objects for no logical reason.
I don't think when they body block windows thats intended, I think they're AI just bugs out and they get stuck on them at times.
He has a lot going for him, and to think you can master him in a day is extremely entitled. His power is very strong, and he has downsides like a balanced killer should have.This is just a assertion, so nothing to comment on here other then give valid reasons for why you think this so I can give counter reasons, agreements and/or a verdict on why I think you are right or wrong.
As it stands though, I have yet to see someone say that you should be able to master anyone in a day.
Also, you only need to hit survivor’s three times a maximum of four times a game, as the vaccines are limited.Exactly, with each chase by a competent survivors lasting a good amount of time.
He is a B tier killer, and one of the most balanced released in a long time.Another assertion, I disagree with this. I think he is C, he has a base kit that is ok but it is not enough to pressure survivors to outrageous degree if they play the game properly with how it is.
He is another killer where if you gen rush, and can loop for the average time then he will lose.
Post edited by DerpyPlayz on8 -
Well pyramid has the tradeoff of being able to hit through walls, so I don't think you want to die on that hill.
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Nemesis hits through walls too.....
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Because she has to get the hatchet out? Oh look a tentacle, he´s ready do use his m2!
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I actually agree with you, I think for now we should let it sit, I don't think Nem actually needs any buffs.Hm, I don't know about buffs either.
I think however Zombie AI needs fixing, and if a zombie hits someone that it doesn't give a sprint burst, at the very least they should consider giving the nemesis some of his power for zombie hits because rn the meta for vsing him is letting zombies hit you for either a sprint burst during chase, or/and to nullify his T2/3 from being obtained.
Right now there is almost zero counterplay to him outside of using that additional infection hit to hold W and waste as much time as possible, he can play most loops and its very hard to dodge the projectile if the killer doesn't panic.The counter play with him is the same as most other killers, albeit with more precise movement needed. Safe loops are still safe, although dangerous loops are insanely dangerous with him so he can get cheeky hits there. Certain god windows he can play around, other ones he is completely countered by. Just depends really, but there is counterplay.
Low walls are an immediate win for him, much like Trickster, but unlike Trickster he can ready his power extremely quickly for hits at pallet drops and can even chew through pallets once at Level 2.Not really, you can't really hit through walls it seems and this seems to apply to low walls. Least I haven't been able to hit anyone through low walls, although if the survivors just pay attention to you they don't really have to give you the choice to either.
Nemesis... isn't very fun to play against.Thats subjective, I don't mind playing vs him and my friend likes it.
If they remove the speed boost on infection hit his kill rate will skyrocket and he'll probably get nerfed anyway.Seriously doubt that would be the case.
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No he does not. I wish he did, that might actually make him really good though. Not sure that would be balanced though so its best he is left where he is in that degree.
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No he has to have a gap in or over the wall to hit the survivor. Basically if your head is sticking over the wall he can hit you through it at least from my experience's. I have tried before hitting through walls that obstructs the head of the survivor and it always fails. I have yet to test every tile that being said. Ph also has the cage of atonement and an inbuilt mori. with hazordus field that allows you to more directly control where you can track survivor movement. Ph is definitely stronger then nemsis and that's without factoring 3 hits to down which is a massive problem.
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You can definitely hit over most low wall objects in the entire game. Its just that the hit is inconsistent. It happened in the PTB too. Nemesis couldn't hit you over a trash can but could hit you over something that was as tall as him.
As of right now I honestly think he can ready the tentacle too fast. Even when I was pre dropping pallets on high walls the nemesis could easily ready it up and hit it at an awkward angle and land on me. I think that might be because of that weird lingering hitbox though.
I'm still unsure if its actually the tentacle or the blue line that deals damage.
I like the zombies thematically but I do dislike how they can essentially play the game for him. Maybe make them infect/injure only but not down.
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I think you've lost all credibility, sir.
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You can definitely hit over most low wall objects in the entire game. Its just that the hit is inconsistent. It happened in the PTB too. Nemesis couldn't hit you over a trash can but could hit you over something that was as tall as him.Hm, well if its not consistent then its not completely a threat. So your point of it just instantly being winning doesn't hold?
As of right now I honestly think he can ready the tentacle too fast. Even when I was pre dropping pallets on high walls the nemesis could easily ready it up and hit it at an awkward angle and land on me. I think that might be because of that weird lingering hitbox though.I could not disagree more, if they change that they will kill this killer faster then they killed the nurse.
The ready up time is absolutely fine, and there are mindgames the survivior can do as counterplay if they predict Nemi is about to slap them with his tentacle.
I'm still unsure if its actually the tentacle or the blue line that deals damage.Its the blue line, I realize when I hit in front of where someone is going, even if I miss, if the come in contact with the blue fire then it will hit them still.
I sorta think of it as a lingering effect in the area for roughly 0.5 second(s).
I like the zombies thematically but I do dislike how they can essentially play the game for him. Maybe make them infect/injure only but not down.They can help out big time sometimes, but its rare. Most of the time they glitch in place, or get stuck on something.
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Couldn't care less what you think if its just assertion that doesn't add to conversation. He can't hit through walls. I have tried it before and it doesn't work.
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There was plenty of posts during the PTB about how Nemesis felt good to play, and asking survivors not to have him be nerfed.
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I agree, his tentacle is a bit too wonky so I imagine that's why people struggle with him including me, he's doesn't Excell at something but he isn't trash. If they removed the speed boost after infecting a survivor I honestly think he'll be around low A high B tier killer
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Sure, no way was that the majority though. It was a mix, some people thought he was ok and some didn't.
I found more of the experienced players I know/met said that they thought he was weaker then what they would of thought. Some thought that he was fine. A few even were disappointed by his ability rather then talking about how effective it was.
The line was crossed both ways, I just don't like how OP is framing it as most thought X, when that was not true. Most of the player base is completely cut off from the PTB as console doesn't even have it. The PC player who do, most of them don't play it. At least the ones I have seen.
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When did they "Kill nurse" What are you talking about? The nerf that didn't let everyone get easy wins with her?
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Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. When the changed her to make her more balanced, alot of the people who played her stopped playing her.
Albeit if they changed Nemi with the before idea, it would likely make him either unplayable to insanely hard to use. So he wouldn't be viable really, the comparison of him and the nurse wasn't about balance though, it was mostly about play rate to clarify in specific about what I said.
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She's always had a low play-rate, even before the nerf, but I get what you're saying now.
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This is true, He readies his whip significantly faster than Huntress and has less "travel time" on the hit. So its not directly comparable.
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