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Camping penalty - too one-sided solution
I'd like to share a few of my thought about recently making the camping a penalized thing.
For starters - dev team have always been addressing camping as one of possible tactics so I find it inconsistent that nowadays it will be a BPs drainer. One the survivor side the penalized action is the unhook farming (and penalty being not awarding points) with the reason - making game unenjoyable for other survivors. Now Killers get a BP lash for doing something sometimes beneficial for them...because survivors deem it unenjoyable. When totem is found or gen is almost finished it's reasonable to hook survivor close to those targets that need protecting and brace for siege, compressing area of targets needed protection, now this thing might make Killers loose points. Sure it won't be an issue provided that Killers knows that a survivor is near but such situation is also the simplest and most likely will make Killer go after next one, while if survivors goes stealthy Killer's encouraged to give an easy unhook and maybe lose other targets and staying or searching for those may negatively influence the score, just what the hell. Patrolling at 16m is not an option without some indicator of distance.
Another thing is comparison of care about Killers and Survivor experience. The idea of penalizing camping would be acceptable only along with penalizing looping which is the twin issue. Entity got bored of people running in circles, whatever. Right now looping is actually a point farm (even more so if we agree that stuns will happen) and changes that are made to "fix" the issue are just a bit more than cosmetic. Getting out pallet vacuum was kinda good, sure, but then again killer gameplay was reaching the state of dumping the game and the change itself is more perceptible during real chase rather than during looping. Plus when dropping a pallet became just a little bit longer, required some timing and made pallet camping an event with a possible win for the Killer - it got fixed right away. There's some really transparent lack of balance in attending to Killers side of the game, too much carefulness.
Comments
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I agree with you, double hookings, near-finished gens, basement, totems, all of them cases when you manage to apply pressure to a whole team, and where strategically is absurd to just take off to the other corner of the map shouldn't drain your BP or hurt your emblem thing.
But hey, I don't think becoming a dumb killer and making bonehead decisions is the way to go just to please entitled survivors. I'll take my 1 or 2% penalty and keep killing them, as it should be.
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The most effective thing to stop camping is to incentivize leaving the hook. Want camping to stop, make devour hope base game play. Killers will be sprinting from the hook begging for the save so they can become the powerhouse threat they need to be in game.2
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Paragraphs man! Use them! That block of text hurts my eyes. I can't even be bothered to read your post. I think the change is in the right direction, but I do think they need to make an exemption for when all the generators are powered. There is no conceivable reason for a killer to leave a hooked survivor once the generators are powered and they shouldn't be punished for doing so. Other than that, I'm good with the change.
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The topic is meant for the people with enough mind clarity to process a few lines of text. And blind answering brings little to the context, it's true that endgame needs rework just as it basically needs noed to be able to pose a real threat but it's also a old fact that we've been informed on one of Q&A that devs are working on it.
Condorloco_26 you're right, it won't really change gameplay since camping is used only if it needs to be done...or when you wanna make sb specific lose and have piping and points in total disregard
But the whole thing shows that changes are made to adjust how things works and it would bee only fair to equally treat garbage playstyle on the other side of the fog.azazer, you went too far with this DH man x) Or it's sarcasm, I'm not sure, but yeah, it would be too op. I think that it's mostly early game that needs some tweaking to make it longer, for the endgame I'm curious what devs have in mind for the, let's hope, near future.
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@azazer said:
The most effective thing to stop camping is to incentivize leaving the hook. Want camping to stop, make devour hope base game play. Killers will be sprinting from the hook begging for the save so they can become the powerhouse threat they need to be in game.Pretty much. Camping is in its foundation a mentality. Campers camp because they want to. Some of course camp out of necessity but I am referring to those who camp everyone every game. Punishing campers will punish more valid killers instead since campers will just keep camping.
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@azazer said:
The most effective thing to stop camping is to incentivize leaving the hook. Want camping to stop, make devour hope base game play. Killers will be sprinting from the hook begging for the save so they can become the powerhouse threat they need to be in game.Thats pointless. I tried playing devour for a while, but the totem gets cleansed way too fast, even if survivors dont search for ruin
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As I said, base gameplay. No perk, that's just how the game is.DeadByFlashlight said:@azazer said:
The most effective thing to stop camping is to incentivize leaving the hook. Want camping to stop, make devour hope base game play. Killers will be sprinting from the hook begging for the save so they can become the powerhouse threat they need to be in game.Thats pointless. I tried playing devour for a while, but the totem gets cleansed way too fast, even if survivors dont search for ruin
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I feel the camping was penalized enough with gen rushing. When I first started this game ever I was THE WORST camper you'd ever see. If i hooked someone, they wouldn't get away. I wouldn't leave. You know what that resulted in? By the time he was dead, all gens were done and I couldn't find anyone before they all escaped. For a majority of my early matches, id only ever get 1 kill. I only started getting MUCH better once I quit camping and went off to get other survivors after hooking one. Camping in and of itself, was generally a bad idea, unless you knew for a fact other survivors were sneaking around for that save. Recently I had a match where I got 3 iridescent (or as i call it crimson) medals and one gold, and I got the gold because of the points removed for "camping". The problem here was that I WASN'T camping, I was the trapper putting traps down in escape points, so that if that survivor got unhooked they or their savior would most likely get trapped. I was penalized for doing the trappers job under the blame of "camping". I don't think there needs to be a punishment in camping because there already WAS. As for the argument that its not fun for the hooked survivor, I agree but in that case just struggle as long as possible to SPITE the camper and make sure he loses the other three and then just join another match.
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@azazer said:
As I said, base gameplay. No perk, that's just how the game is.
DH as a basic gameplay would be too powerful, balance of the game is quite delicate, normal game 4v1 with 7 gens is in survivors favor (especially that Ruin is just an option, in theory at the very least) but with dc during loading screen and a game 3v1 with 6 gens Killer has great upper hand. It makes sense for such a powerful tool as DH is to have a turn off switch. It would be enough to award Killers who roam after hooking and have successful events (e.g. stackable bonus depending on
number of hooked survivors at a time to BS for actions taken Xm far from them) cause the idea right now creates such nonsense like Knex mentioned.0 -
Brining up 3 v 1 because of disconnects would be an irrelavant point to make because those are anomalies. The game is balanced around 4 v 1 and is planned to be further rebalanced by making solo play resemble SWF as time goes on. You admit that 4 v 1 is already survivor favored and will be more so as they follow through with the plans they have in motion.TerminalEntropy said:@azazer said:
As I said, base gameplay. No perk, that's just how the game is.
DH as a basic gameplay would be too powerful, balance of the game is quite delicate, normal game 4v1 with 7 gens is in survivors favor (especially that Ruin is just an option, in theory at the very least) but with dc during loading screen and a game 3v1 with 6 gens Killer has great upper hand. It makes sense for such a powerful tool as DH is to have a turn off switch. It would be enough to award Killers who roam after hooking and have successful events (e.g. stackable bonus depending on
number of hooked survivors at a time to BS for actions taken Xm far from them) cause the idea right now creates such nonsense like Knex mentioned.
I'll agree that DH is powerful but I'll point out that rather than a turn off switch, survivors have the very real option not to activate it. Be it unhooking with the killer near by, or choosing not to save the hooked person they can choose not to empower the killer to save themselves. The person on the hook has luck add ons and slippery meat and now Deliverance to Kobe. Survivors would have choices to make and don't need an off button to shut down killers who both do their job and not camp.1 -
I usually don't camp, but when I hook a survivor and I see 2 of his/her buddies literally right next to the hook, why should I leave knowing that the second I do they'll unhook them? I've had many instances where I'll get 1 or 2 knockdowns because they keep trying to unhook right in front of me. Also, as a rank 1 survivor, I hate when people immediately unhook me. Give me time on the hook so gens can be done and THEN, when the killer is gone, unhook me. It's pretty simple. I hate when killers face camp, but sometimes camping is the best strategy.0
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There's no Bloodpoint penalty for camping, just an emblem penalty. Compared to Survivors Killers have it way easier in terms of punishment, though to be fair farming someone is far more obvious than "camping" someone.
I do agree with you absolutely though. Game mechanics can never understand game state. I think the core concept was good but it was executed poorly.
As are a lot of things with this game.
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@azazer said:
Brining up 3 v 1 because of disconnects would be an irrelavant point to make because those are anomalies. The game is balanced around 4 v 1 and is planned to be further rebalanced by making solo play resemble SWF as time goes on. You admit that 4 v 1 is already survivor favored and will be more so as they follow through with the plans they have in motion.
I'll agree that DH is powerful but I'll point out that rather than a turn off switch, survivors have the very real option not to activate it. Be it unhooking with the killer near by, or choosing not to save the hooked person they can choose not to empower the killer to save themselves. The person on the hook has luck add ons and slippery meat and now Deliverance to Kobe. Survivors would have choices to make and don't need an off button to shut down killers who both do their job and not camp.For the first part I wanted to state that balance if quite fragile, sure thing that 4v1 scenario should be the reference. But we are talking about DH here, 3 unhooks you insta down them, 5 unhooks and you mori them, at that point without turn off switch the game would be done. Moreover Killers have their unique powers that are meant to aid them in getting survivors, such buff would be same for everyone and certain Killers would be able to utilize it to the point of godhood. It would be nice to have the whole game time adjusted so that Killers would have more time to use those powers, hunt instead of running around like crazy.
About Survivors being able to utilize mechanic to prevent DH from happening...let's be honest, only SWF would have a chance and experienced ones. Not to mention that such mechanic could actually hit back and promote camping and playing close to hooks, survivors would try not to stack DH so they would get close, that would become habit so Killers would stop to leave and so on...DH right now works fine (if it "survives") cause they don't know about it till you down them for the first time
@TigerKirby215 said:
There's no Bloodpoint penalty for camping, just an emblem penalty.Wait, so emblems are not somewhat connected to final BPs gained? Always sth to learn
Then again there's still a penalty, and that's my main concern, the whole "way of thinking" so to speak.0 -
No. Bloodpoints are seperate from Emblems. That's why you get Chase BP for staying in a Chase but lose Chase Emblems for staying in a Chase.
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No. Bloodpoints are seperate from Emblems. That's why you get Chase BP for staying in a Chase but lose Chase Emblems for staying in a Chase.
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Seems I didn't pay enough attention to that thing
But, like I said, the issue itself unfortunately stays.0 -
yeah, basically killers get punished for utilizing a strategy because survivor mains cry babied about it.
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I never camp. If I hook someone near an almost finished gen I search the area if no one near I leave. Don't camp unless you see other survivors near the hook even then you should chase them not camp.
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@Spicybarbecue said:
yeah, basically killers get punished for utilizing a strategy because survivor mains cry babied about it.🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Yeah it's not like killer mains don't cry baby about anything to use your logic you know like looping since campings a legit strat so is looping.
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@Whispers23 said:
I never camp. If I hook someone near an almost finished gen I search the area if no one near I leave. Don't camp unless you see other survivors near the hook even then you should chase them not camp.Did you actually read what this topic is about? It isn't about camping as a tactic per se, but about losing something due to it and attempting to fix one of the playstyles that other side doesn't like without similar steps to the other one.
There's hardly any answering to what you said cause..well, you introduced you'r way of playing, ok, then again there's no reason to make it "one an only right way". Even if possibility of hook-and-forget would be nice, right now unless you're Nurse or Billy then you're digging you own grave with this "forget" part. And well, those two can "remember" really fast so..yeah.@powerbats said:
Yeah it's not like killer mains don't cry baby about anything to use your logic you know like looping since campings a legit strat so is looping.There's exactly the issue - there's a step toward survivors cries without one toward Killers. And between those two Spicybarbecue is more right 'cause if anyone it's Killers that are at disadvantage compared to what they should be "by description".
About the part about strategies - guess I have no choice than to straighten it out a bit - looping exploits, how to say this, game mechanic, coding and is totally absurd in terms of climate, yet considered a serious gameplay here and even more so "a skill". What sort of IQ one has to posses to deem running around an object a skill. While camping is ######### not only because it doesn't allow one to be saved, that part alone wouldn't justify it - at the same time rest of the players have an empty game and that's the thing. But it's only a choice of behavior that Killer playing seriously wouldn't do because in addition to what I said before - it usually costs one a game in all 3 terms (kills, points, pips), it is not a way to win the game unless the other people suddenly go SWAT style.
Now that pieces are in place if anyone would like to get their opinion do it about the theme of discussion, squabbles about camping and looping being liked or not have certainly many other places to take.
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@Condorloco_26 said:
I agree with you, double hookings, near-finished gens, basement, totems, all of them cases when you manage to apply pressure to a whole team, and where strategically is absurd to just take off to the other corner of the map shouldn't drain your BP or hurt your emblem thing.But hey, I don't think becoming a dumb killer and making bonehead decisions is the way to go just to please entitled survivors. I'll take my 1 or 2% penalty and keep killing them, as it should be.
LOL that alone is one sided. I agree there is no easy solution but balance overall is an issue.
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Yes I read what you said and I don't have your problem because I never camp. Camping is for weak killers.
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Campings ONLY VALID use is at exit gates phase. Any other time it’s better to search for others, which may or may not be at the hook. I win at least 90% of my games, (yes I reach rank 1 all the time, I don’t noob slay). So not camping can do wonders. It definitely HAS ITS PLACE, but it’s OVERUSED. It’s used in places it shouldn’t be
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@Whispers23 said:
Yes I read what you said and I don't have your problem because I never camp. Camping is for weak killers.What you said just now proves you didn't x)
Post edited by TerminalEntropy on1 -
@TerminalEntropy said:
What you said just now proves you didn't x)Who the actual hell did you address this to? You credited and tagged no one.
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Seems I didn't refresh site for a couple of minutes and didn't see your reply, I shall fix it right away.
As for what you said Jack yes, you're right but jeez, this is not a conversation about whether to camp or not! Actually that's also what I said to the previous one. Just read the damn introduction, event if it's a bit long. And if shortcut is absolutely necessary here I go - it's about injustice of a situation when 2 sides of the game have a play-style they don't like to face and only one of those play-styles gets treatment in lesser awards.
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I read your post but again the only killers this is going to punish are the bad ones who're at ranks they don't belong at. so far killers for the most part aren't having an issue over this and the only ones that are complaining are the bad killers.
As in killers that camp at 1st hook, or camp just because they can camp instead of you know do what they're supposed to do. Which is to hunt survivors down, damage gens, hit and down survivors, hook survivors and pressure them to please the Entity.
If after the match is over you get the message The Entity is displeased because you camped then you pissed off the Entity because you camped. You have 10 seconds to leave the hook before the emblem penalty starts ticking. If there's survivors within 16 meters you have to timer penalty nor do you get 1 if you're beyond 16 meters.
So if you're getting penalized it's because you're camping when you don't need to, this isn't because survivors are whining about it although that certainly is part of why. It's because other killers ar tired of dealing with bad killers being where they don't belong, the devs are tired of killers not participating more in the game.
The end result is if you're getting punished by the emblem then you deserve to get punished on the chaser emblem. If you're not camping you amazingly don't get punished.
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I forgot about this.
...again with the same, dude, if you did read then you totally didn't understand. For the f. sake, my first sentence in the 2nd paragraf in previous post - this is not a topic about whether camping is good or not, and all you talk about is exactly this -.-
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