Pyramid head is better than Nemesis
Nemesis power gives speed boost and not even a health state and on console his power is more of a hindrances due to fps drops ( which will be fix later) when attempting to use it.
Pyramid head power has range, unique hook state, a mori for the third hook. And his power feel right in which when a survivor drop a pallet the game don't freeze for a bit and you don't hit anything.
Case in point: Fix bugs...on console so Nemesis can be played the way he was meant cause he sucks so bad right now on console. I have no idea how he plays on pc.
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I thought the fact PH was better then Nemesis was already established since day 1
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I mean, yeah. PH doesn't give every survivor up to two Mettle of Man procs. I like how we're in year 5, post DS rework and MoM rework, and the devs are like "What if this killer had to hit survivors 3 times to down a survivor with their M2? Seems balanced." I wonder what free health state they'll release and nerf within 3 months in year 6.
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I mean... And?
It is well known that not every Killer has the same strength and this is alright. It is not like Nemesis is incredible weak. And he is also not too bad to not feel rewarding, like, he does not have a Ultra High Skillcap for not much Reward, he is fine.
Saying that Killer X is stronger than Killer Y does not really matter IMO. Otherwise we can do that after every Chapter: "Nurse is better than "insert new Killer Name".
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I thought this was common knowledge the day Nemesis was revealed.
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Been that way since 2001, tbh.
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Fair point
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You on drugs on console he unplayable cause his power lag like crazy.
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Reducing or downright removing the speed boost from his first tentacle hit would be good but... gotta take in mind, he is can be really oppressive on chases, making pallets and windows heavily unsafe.
I feel his power is more like: use it when you can guarantee the hit, rather than use it all the time, when it comes to the first hit, if you can just fist the survivor, just do it, dont give them a free boost from the Tentacle.
If someone isnt infected i would mainly use the tentacle on pallet drops or window vaults, specially high ones like the ones in Haddonfield, since they wont get the benefit of the speed boost like that.
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The fact that Nem doesn't have that wack ass movement while readying his power makes him more enjoyable to play alone.
Also what this guy said
Right now the counter of wasting as much time as possible with the infection hit is really his only counterplay. He -decimates- at loops, epsecially when he gets that deceptively large extra meter in level 3. If he was like that out the gate I genuinly think he'd become a problem. I don't think he's OP but I worry that any buffs, at least for now will lead to a Deathslinger 2.0 situation.
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nemesis tentacle is more of a guaranteed hit at pallets than PH's power. it comes out faster and you can literally pull it out and use it the moment you see the pallet drop and STILL get the hit. there is no mindgame its 100% a hit. with PH since judgement is delayed you have to mindgame the pallet more and already have the sword in the ground.
zombies are way better than caging and the 3rd hook mori (which requires you to have them tormented) since zombies actually help you in chase and wastes peoples time when they are trying to do gens and cant
So in my opinion nemesis is better than pyramid head.
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Pyramid head power is guaranteed what drugs are you on to say his power isn't guaranteed at pallet. Zombies are rng they either do nothing for you or in the rare case they are actually helpful at one chase. Also pyramid head power can go through walls Nemesis can't do that.
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I'm stupid. Just reading the title shut my brain off and I thought this was a post about who has the better head....
I mean, yeah Pyramid Head's power is pretty good, but that's all. You get cum cages and a multi hit range attack that's slow as hell.
While Nemesis has constant map awareness and some pressure on how you build your zombies, and a rather quick and reliable whip
Recovery wise, when you miss you get a lengthy cool down as Pyramid Head, but when you hit someone it's stupid fast. I dunno, if Nemesis didn't give a survivor a free sprint burst, I'd say they're almost pretty even
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Nemesis has zombies. That's pretty much the shtick. Also i think the tentacle spank is faster than PH's beam.
PH has him beat everywhere else, though.
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Both are op and busted. Devs listen to red rank streamers on ways to build killers and it makes game awful for the casual player with a life outside the game. Pick either one, you’ll get that 4K 99% of the time.
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Rites of Judgment takes 1 second to charge, and you move at 92% speed during it. The tentacle only takes 0.35 seconds to ready, and you move at 95% speed when holding it. However, after that first second, Pyramid Head moves at 110% movement speed while holding Rites.
Cancelling Rites takes 0.5 seconds, cancelling the tentacle 1.5 seconds (but you move at 105% speed during those 1.5 seconds).
This means that Nemesis can use his ability more reactively than Pyramid, thanks to the much faster charge time. E. g. if a survivor fast-vaults a pallet (1.1 seconds interaction time) or window (0.7 seconds interaction time), Nemesis can charge his attack and land a hit during this fast-vault interaction, whereas if Pyramid does not already have his Rites active when the fast-vault interaction begins, he at best can go for a prediction shot shortly after the vault animation has played out.
On the other hand, Pyramid's zoning potential is much greater than that of Nemesis, since not only does he actually move faster than a survivor while holding Rites (as opposed to Nemesis who moves slower than a survivor while holding his tentacle), but cancelling Rites is much faster than cancelling the tentacle, and can therefore allow for follow-up basic attacks much more effectively.
Punishment has a base range of 8 meters, and this can be increased up to 10.5m with the use of two add-ons. Tentacle Strike only has a range of 5m, up to at most 6m at tier 3, and there aren't add-ons that affect it. Punishment has a hitzone width of about 1-1.5m, Tentacle Strike only of 0.16m (however, you can physically move during the Tentacle Strike attack and this will widen its hitzone thanks to the hitbox of the tentacle lingering for 1/3rd of a second, which can be useful in a variety of situations, although it does not make it equal to the applications of Punishment's width).
Considering that Punishment also goes through anything (apart from holes in the ground) and can travel downward as well as hit multiple targets at once, you will be getting a lot more mileage out of it than Tentacle Strike. The tentacle can hit over objects, but the hit detection of it interacts with objects in such a janky and unintuitive way that you are usually better off just playing Nemesis as an M1 killer until you can get guaranteed tentacle hits, which mostly means when directly facing a survivor at a window or pallet. If an obstacle is only around waist height and you stand right up against it, you can more reliably land tentacle hits over it, but this also depends on the specifics of those obstacles (e. g. Autohaven materials have weird invisible collisions that can intercept your strikes), and survivors can also crouch to avoid these hits, so even then you are much of the time still better off simply looping normally until you can land clear-line strikes. Punishment due to its range, width and ability to go through anything reliably enables you to go for much crazier shots with it and use it much more often than Tentacle Strike.
Punishment has a cooldown of 2.75 seconds during which you move very slowly, Strike has a cooldown of 2.5 seconds and I think you also move a little bit faster during this cooldown, so survivors make less distance on you after a strike. Although this might just be my perception - since you will usually strike a survivor at a closer range than you will "punish" them, the different distances they have after the respective attacks might be mostly due to that initial difference in distance. It's possible that they move at the exact same speed during those cooldowns, meaning that there's merely a 250 millisecond difference between them, which would be negligible in terms of distance made during that time.
Punishment in many respects is numerically better and just has a lot more potential to be oppressively strong in chases (and more useful elsewhere too, such as hitting multiple survivors right after unhooks, or sniping them off gens and totems). Strike in a lot of senses has to be treated as merely an extended lunge that can go over pallets and through windows.
On top of that, Nemesis is huge and can be tracked rather well both by his model and sounds. Contamination and Tormented are about equally useful (or useless), since both mostly only make it slightly easier to track survivors and that's it. Although, Nemesis obviously has to first contaminate survivors before he can damage them with his ability, a pretty notable downside that Pyramid does not suffer from.
Between the zombies and cages, I would say the latter is a much more reliably useful secondary ability. Not only is the zombie AI wonky, leading to them getting stuck frequently and ignoring or otherwise not managing to get to survivors even on gens right in their vicinity, but even if they do end up at a tile you are chasing a survivor at, at a hook, or a gen, it's not like they are regularly very impactful, as survivors can play around them and the killer cannot really proactively make use of them. Even if you manage to zone a survivor right into a zombie, if it's not literally a chokepoint they can still relatively easily avoid the hit. At gens if a zombie is harassing survivors, they can keep dodging around the gen (especially if it's a gen in the open), and so at most their progress will be slowed down a bit, rather than actually being forced away from those gens. At hooks zombies are at their strongest, as survivors will have to first draw them away to be able to unhook safely at all, which is obviously not possible all the time. But I think BHVR changed the zombies such that they won't just stick around hooks and literally facecamp like they did in the PTB. The map-wide tracking that zombies provide is lackluster in my experience. They will "chase" survivors with their arms up even if those survivors are long gone and like 20+ meters away. If I use my zombies to actually try and find a survivor that will not seldomly set me on a wild goose chase. And I also suspect there's a glitch where zombies will sometimes raise their arms without even having "spotted" a survivor in the according vicinity, so basically they can even be trolling you.
Cages on the other hand have no such wonky, unreliable aspects. They allow you to very quickly hook (or kill) a survivor without having to leave your position. The time saving on that is considerable, and the fact that you don't have to physically move to a hook is also impactful since you can be right back to pressuring survivors around your position. On top of that it of course circumvents a whole bunch of perks and mechanics associated with usual hooks, such as most notably Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike. Pyramid was the strongest camper and tunneller in the game due to this, so much so that his cages had to be nerfed in two big ways (removed auras, cage now changes location if Pyramid is camping it), and yet he is still totally lethal with his ability to camp and tunnel, especially if you choose to hook a tormented survivor on a regular hook, which allows you to both camp and tunnel them with impunity.
Both killers have pretty ######### add-on sets, but at least Pyramid does have those range add-ons which are very good, whereas Nemesis does not have any add-ons that make him considerably more lethal with any reliability.
Landing Punishments through walls, on multiple targets, or at max range is much more satisfying than any type of Strike you can land. In fact, since the Strike mechanics are so wonky and unintuitive, it's a much less gratifying and more annoying experience using it. To basically be restricted to use it in clear-line scenarios makes it much more of a boring one-trick ability, whereas the hit and therefore also zoning potential of Punishment is practically unlimited. The only thing that negatively affects the feeling of playing Pyramid is the weird sensitivity change when holding Rites.
Overall, I think it's fair to say Nemesis is pretty much strictly worse than Pyramid Head. He's not awful, sits at around upper mid tier, but he is certainly deserving of even substantial buffs. I find him relatively comfortable and enjoyable to play precisely because he does not have as much potential as Pyramid, meaning that you do not have to think as much when doing so, but he would definitely be more exciting and engaging if he had more compelling abilities.
Post edited by zarr on1 -
all these misguided souls lead to believe in this blasphemy upon Nems good name.
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And Nurse is better than both of them. We can do this "X Killer is better than Y Killer" with every chapter.
It's not even by that much. Both Killers are good enough to stand a chance against most Survivors but lose against the good ones.
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Otzdarvas video supports this theory
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yes but this is well known
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nemesis better than pyramid head, not even an argument
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But like, no? He kinda got downgraded by being put in the entitys realm anyways
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still better than pyramid head
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Always was.
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@Lord_Tony was streaming last night and he said Nemesis power is so much easier than PH.
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I think Nemesis can potentially snowball better once everyones infected and/or injured late game, the whip is a lot faster and easier to hit with than Punishment, especially in the open or round windows. It's very easy to split off from your teammates if a Pyramid jumps you.
But I think Pyramid is way better from the get go, no need to "build up" power or infect, 110% while using the trail of the damned aswell as the ability to potentially shut down a loop if the survivor is scared of being caged and losing perk access. And while it doesnt come into play often being able to hit through walls can be good against gens near walls. I just wish 90% of PPs didn't tunnel through DS. Every PP I play against is so predictable in that way.
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A good change would be to make it so that when Nemy hits a surv with his tentacle for the first time it still injures them or doesn't give em a boost
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How? He only has one extra attack, which takes 3 hits, the zombies almost never do what they are supposed to, and the tentacles hitbox is not great either. Pyramid head not only has a second way to hook people that is quick and reliable, he can hit people through walls, and can extend his range with addons to around ten meters. Nemesis can do half of what pyramid head can with a slight bit of plague thrown in. Nemesis does have a fast recovery but in most cases it isnt as helpful as it seems. Plus pyramid head has better perks, he actually gets use out of more than one perk. Pyramid head was a far better killer from day one
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