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Nemisis is not fun to play against
I really enjoy playing as Nemi but every time I get him as a survivor its just sucks the fun out of the game. He can pull out that whip so fast that pallets and windows are useless against him. He needs a nerf. Make it take longer to pull out the whip or have a longer recover from using it. Right now its basically a STBL as a MS with RANGE
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I think he is fun to play against. I get what you mean about windows and pallets but his tentacle acts kind of like a huntress hatchet in those situations and can be avoided.
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Ya I get that but the fun comes in out playing and I dont consider "let him hit you for a speed boost" to be any form of outplay. The issues with it being like huntress hatchets is the hatchets are not instant and for have a split second to react. The whip is instant so you have to fully predict it.
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As a killer in terms of his power he is fine to play against IMO. But no exaggeration the majority of the Nemesis players I've faced this past week have been fierce tunnelers. Even at five gens. Its not made facing him a pleasant experience for me.
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He plays exactly like a weaker pyramid head that can't hit through walls which makes him very predictable and boring, just like pyramid head.
Throw pallet and get hit with ranged or don't throw it and get hit by m1. Windows, same thing.
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I agree.
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He's awesome to against, I love turning around and watching meg get sucker-punched around the corner.
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i have a lot of fun baiting the attack around pallets. i think he's fine as is in that aspect.
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Give him a full second before using the tentacle attack. Thats all he needs. I get 120 FPS plus have a 144 Refresh Monitor and his ready up and attack animation looks almost the same to me. Lower FPS makes it easier to dodge him but you're ######### outta luck with higher ones.
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yeah, hes sort of like pyramid head in the lose-lose situation aspect, you either throw a pallet/vault a window and get m2’d or don't and get m1’d
in general im just really sick of them releasing mid ranged killers, and killers that force lose-lose situations
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Ah yes a strong killer that takes three M2s to down someone.
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Is this the part where we just ignore his power at tiles once infected? Yeah, the hit 3 times thing really hurts him, but once he has it you are effectively screwed. It isn't very interactive or exciting to be told "Oh you want to beat Nemesis? Just hold Shift W and hope to god your teammates are doing gens".
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I would argue that they're easier to avoid than Huntress's hatchets as tentacle strike has a smaller hitbox and range. If anything his power isn't strong.
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My experience so far against Nemesis...
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That's because Nemesis is a worthless killer. Unless you literally play the game for a living and are at a tournament level of skill, you cannot win with Nemesis against average survivors, not even factoring in good SWF. Those players are doing what they need to do to win. If they play the nice killer 8 hooks before any kills strategy they will lose horribly.
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Nemesis has a much weaker reaction strength unlike Deathslinger and very weak zoning potential.
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The classic “let’s nerf a bad killer” thread.
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It’s still early days with tons of noob nemesises, but so far I’m not having a horrible time avoiding his tentacles. Sure, I get hit, but many times it’s easy to avoid by faking window jumps, or even taking the vault and taking a sharp left. I think he’s pretty fun especially with the zombies.
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Strength has nothing to do with whether or not a killer is fun to play against though? Take Clown for example, he's one of the weakest killers in the game and it's still a horrible time vsing him.
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strength and “fun” are closely related for most people. Most of the survivors complaining about killers do so because they lose to them. Rather than thinking “how can I improve “ most hop on here and complain. Unfortunately, the devs cater to these type of people.
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The dude literally said nerf Nemsis as in he's too strong.
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Greed pallets and fake windows like you do with PH. He slows down to 95% when pulling out and holding the Tentacle, so hug loops tightly and keep running around the pallet. If you think he's gonna just m1, drop it quickly so he doesn't have times to pull up the m2. If need be, just leave the loop entirely when you lose LOS and hear him pull the tentacle.
He's pretty weak since he needs 3 hits to down, and needs to be T3 to consistently shut down strong loops like shack. If they DO want to make pulling the m2 take longer, he'd need an extra 1m on his base range and the speed boost on Contamination would need to go.
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And I'm saying he needs a rework as in he's not fun to go against, don't get me wrong I think he needs a buff from his current state actually so I'm not exactly on OP's side either.
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So its not just me than. I've tracked my last 20 games and about 13 of them have been Nemesis. Out of those 13 games I have been tunneled to death(Or to my delight an escape when my team mate can be bothered to do the god damn gens) from the start 9 times. The other 4? 3 of them someone else was tunneled to death. One 1 time was it a fun match with no dirty tunnels.
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whaaaat? you mean holding W across the entire map to counterplay a killer is unfun???? NO!
yeah i hate nemesis. it just feels like a hatchet that's 5x stronger in short range, which is how close you're going to be to a killer most of the time.
he's not OP whatsoever, just super unfun. his counterplay of holding W is suuuuuuper effective but extremely boring for both Nemesis and survivor.
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Considering he has to take three hits to down someone,why would you nerf him
Secondly he has a cooldown down when the tentacle comes out you can't immediately attack, then he has a cooldown when he misses and a cooldown when he either hit's you or breaks the pallet three hit's plus 4 cooldowns, yeah you're totally right Nemesis sure is a strong killer.
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In other breaking news; Survivors refuse to change their play style when facing a new Killer.... again.
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Maybe I've just been going against piss poor Nemesis players, but if I get hit by the tentacle it's basically a free escape. That's if, because I dodge or pallet block a lot if I can. I've honestly been caught by more straight up face punches than tentacle strikes.
I don't get how you thing he's any different than other ranged killers. Huntress and Deathslinger with aim, or even PH with a good sense of timing would do the same to you in every situation. Except with them, you don't get a speed boost.
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Fun to play against and pretty easy to counter the whip. Zombies are probably my favorite aspect.
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I agree. The only defense survivors have is pallets and windows. If you can get hit through those instantly it sort of makes it unplayable.
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He's just kind of another No Loops For You killer, which are usually pretty boring to play against because the counterplay is running away ASAP. At least with Huntress, if you can predict her throw and juke it, she's still a slow killer overall so she can't just be on you right away. Nemesis is standard speed and any jukes you try to do just give him the time he needs to catch up to you. And zombies are frustrating because they are RNG. (I don't mind if he herds me towards one during chase, I think that's more fun honestly. But when they're just arbitrarily There it's just annoying and random.) Maybe he'll be more fun to play against eventually but right now he just feels cheap at loops which is like.. u know... the main fun part of survivor...
The "three hits to down" argument is a little weak to me. At -most-, you have to land eight total hits extra, and then that never matters again. (Once for each survivor by default, and then once for each potential vaccine. Can be less if survivors don't care, or if zombies get hits.) If vaccines were infinite and respawned as plague fountains do, then yeah, that would be really annoying. And that's only for M2. Can always use the m2 zoning to land a punch. All that said, I feel like the vaccine mechanic is half-baked AF and feels tacked on.
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8 total hits extra is INSANE. No other killer has to hit you potentially 8 more times than normal. I honestly can't understand how you find that a weak argument.
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All I got out of this post is 'the killer can hit me, please nerf so I can t-bag and escape'. Only joking lol.
I find him fun to play as and against, loving the zombies but wish there was an add on for more. His tentacle has a very narrow hitbox, and his hitbox is not a huge square like huntress, so it's a little easier to avoid.
I don't think he needs nerfing, maybe a little buff to widen the tentacle strike at tier 3.
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Survivors can do gens in 60 secs they say 80 but that's another arguement,so let's say you hit a healthy survivor because you want to be in tier 2 afp so it takes 30 seconds maybe 45 tops but,you're not downing a decent looper so,that's 45 secs just on the first hit.The second hit adds another 30 that's 75 secs one minute and 15 seconds.That's two generator's just for one survivor not to mention you have to juggle three other survivors.
Every other killer performs alot better except console Nurse in all areas,Nemesis has the most time consuming power in the game and survivors can straight up deny you power the whole game which makes him the weakest killer in the game,but because some people are learning how to play with his weak power survivors need him to be changed. The entitlement never ceases to amaze me,even Trickster is stronger than Nemesis if someone put the practice in to learn him.He's only strong at vaults. He can only even down you when you're contaminated with his power please think about that.
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If it was 8 M1 normal hits, then sure. But these are hits that you would not be getting as another killer. If I'm playing Trapper, I can't hit people over pallets or through windows at a distance. I still have to close that gap, or succeed in a mindgame, or whatever. Nemesis can hit survivors quickly and pretty simply if you've got the aim at any vault. The bonus hit thing, I think, is meant to be the "counterplay" to that. Give survivors 8 chances to ignore Nemesis's strongest ability to buy time.
Granted I think that's pissssss poor game design. It's not fun from either side. For Nemesis, it feels bad to get a hit and not feel rewarded (although you do get your tier up), and for the survivor it sucks that the main counterplay is just an arbitrary are you or are you not infected, which is a resource that can run out (or more likely be wasted by bad teammates who just vaccinate immediately every time). Definitely think this killer needed more time in the oven, but lol, which killer doesn't at this point?
I can understand why my original statement sounded insane tho :( my b. Hope I explained a bit better.
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If you listen you can hear him start it then you have to predict when he'll use it then you just turn 90 degrees and avoid it.
Nemesis isn't oppressive and he is one of the easiest Killers to run around the place. faking vaults and pallets screws him over more than Deathslinger. You also get a free hit + speed boost and then can pocket another one by picking up a vaccine.
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He can still turn after using it and it'll still hit.
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I get you, but that means he has to stay as an M1 killer and has no traps to chomp people.
Trapper can't, you're right. Nurse, Plague, Huntress, Deathslinger and Pyramid Head can and do the exact same thing but you get injured. Trickster can't because he's a bum.
Trying to loop or vault without staying out of their extended range gets you a paddling. He's most comparable to Pyramid Head because any hit Nemesis gets, PH could likely get too but with damage.
100% agree that he needs more time in the oven though. Chuck Trickster in there with him!
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Chuck 'em all in there! Just have one bi- wait. I don't like where this metaphor is going. The oven metaphor is canceled.
Seriously though, I think for me, playing against PHead feels less bad? Pyramid head has a bit more windup to his attack, and you get the big red bar on the ground to let you know where it's going to hit. You only see the blue on Nemesis after the fact. I think if they reworked how that interaction worked and to be more directly like PH (same timings, warnings, etc), then I would be totally fine. That, and I feel like Nemesis should have to "place" zombies just to make them feel less random. If he put it by a gen, then fine. If it just randomly wandered over, I want to die.
Anyway GG on this Reasonable Forum Interaction. You love to see it.
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I actually enjoy playing against him and as him. I simply think with the smaller hitbox and present familiarity with the whole drop or not to drop. Also weak zoning. He doesn't need a rework and buffs would suffice.
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He is fun and not OP.
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I honestly think he's fun. He adds a bit of horror back into this game. Those elephant steps are terrifying when being chased.
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Not close to being accurate. Yes, they can attack at roughly the same amount of time, but that's where the comparisons end. Deathslinger has very little cooldown by canceling his aim, whereas Nemesis, while not having one as brutal as Huntress, has one. Nemesis has a harsher cooldown for missing a hit, but a better one for landing a hit relative to Deathslinger (though he doesn't need to reload). Deathslinger can hit you through most small gaps. Nemesis is largely limited to shots that Huntress can land. If anything, Nemesis is an ultra-close range huntress with better handling but far worse snowball potential. We're really going to complain about every killer that comes out that's not a complete potato aren't we?
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Yes, apparently we are.
Though, surprisingly I don't see that much hate for Blight even though he's S tier. Thank God for that
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Oh, it's there. People have old ruin undying PTSD with Blight.
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Oh well that's just a perk combo, sorry to say it, but I don't necessarily consider that to be the same as complaining about a killer
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Well, they address it to Blight, and there are a few complaining about mobility, though they're in the minority. Technically, people that think Nemesis is too strong are a minority. I think survivors just hate ranged killers in general TBH.
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Fair enough. I think Nemesis is the good kind of range though, he feels like a lot of fun to play against
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This. Ran into a Nemesis the other night who was running tinkerer. It happened to be the house of pain in haddonfield and I'm minding my own business, working away on the gen and all I heard through my headphones is this loud footsteps thudding and I was like ??? What is that - is that ? Next thing I know, Nemesis is pulling me off the gen all because he didn't have a terror radius. 🙃 First and only time I've ever let that happen to me from a Nemie. It was truly a terrifying experience.
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It's so funny to me how defensive a lot of people get in this forum when it's anything related to a killer being unfun. Everyone comes to the thread with tips on how to outplay by holding W or saying how weak he is stopping gens. Like cmon man, nobody cares about that, OP is not complaining that Nemesis is overpowered, OP is complaining that it is UNFUN being chased (yes, the main reason people play this game, the killer-survivor interaction) by this killer. Do not come in this thread, mention his 3-hit down first chase with each survivor, and think you're making a solid argument because you can extend a chase by just holding W. NOBODY LIKES JUST HOLDING W AND RUNNING STRAIGHT!
The 0.35 windup time on his whip is many times faster than Huntress or Pyramid head and boils down his playstyle into a situation where you just lose as a survivor and have zero input in the chase. You hug the loop until he gets close enough to raise his whip, you either drop the pallet and you get hit through it, or you don't drop it and he cancels and M1's you. This brainless chase repeats for windows as well, you can try to fake the window and get m1'd by him, or you can vault it and get whipped. But hey you can also pre-drop the pallet early before you get whipped, and have him zone you around the dropped loop (unless its a god pallet) until he can break the pallet instantly from any side he wants.
This is all that OP wanted to say, that it's just plain unfun. I've played many many matches against him, tried many tactics on loops, played against super sweaty tournament-practicing nemesis players and babies alike, and if they learned to abuse this playstyle it just becomes inevitable that you hold shift-W and don't try to loop anything and hope you run him away from any gens, or get to a super safe pallet you can pre-drop.
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I honestly think his tentacle is easy to dodge. Just don't be greedy with pallets, you obviously can't loop him like a normal M1 killer. The only thing i personal found annyoing yet are the zombies and how random they are. They sometimes spawn like 2 meters from me, force me off the gen and just general beeing annyoing. I am suprised i've never encountered a nemesis running ruin in this build, i think that would probably be a meta perk for him.
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