Holding "W" will become in the future a problem and needs to be adressed
I also feel that, survivors start to realize slowly by time that just running forward without looping is against most Killers just the smartest strategy. The problem with it is, it is a very boring strategy which removes all kind of skill play in the game but yet it is the most effective one.
But the big question is, how do you want to adress it? Scott Jund made the suggestion to just reduce the map size and reduce the basic M1 hit cooldown and ofc nerf Save the best for last to compensate that which is a good idea imo.
Dont know if that is really the best solution but I agree that this problem needs to be adressed before it is getting abused too often.
Comments
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I think map size is perhaps the biggest problem with balancing this game. But there is so much that goes into it, if we shrink maps in favor of giving killers a better experience then camping and tunneling become more viable.
But as it is now, with a good crew of survivors, gens can be hard to defend.
I think the game is in a decent place, but true balance may be impossible
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Even smaller Maps? Ooof.
I mean, holding W should be fine, eh? Killer Mains did not like Looping and are telling Survivors to adapt. Now they did it, and it is wrong again?
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Plus killers have their boring and no skill strategies. Why can't survivors have theirs?
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Maybe if they gave survivors a viable way to break out of a chase entirely instead of just looping until they go down.
There’s no reason not to get as much distance as possible, since plenty of killers are borderline uncounterable once they close the gap.
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Maps need more stuff in them, with less extremes. More playable pallets, more debris and stuff to hide behind if that's your thing etc. Not just a bunch of extremely strong tiles surrounded by deadzones.
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Considering killer is absurdly faster, with range attacks in many, and that devs boarded up half the windows or removed pallets…..I’d say it’s more of a you thing and not a game issue. Most killer players are getting consistent 4K games which is not what devs wanted. I know you all want that, but for game health it’s not realistic.
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Yeah. And I mean, Loops got weaker, Killer Powers became more problematic during Looping... Sure there will be Adaption.
And Stealth is not really an option, considering that the game has more and more things against Stealth (like, Nemesis provides non-avoidable sounds on the Survivor side)
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It already is a problem. This damn annoying tactic shouldn't be a thing.
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I typically try not to do this tactic. But depending on map rng, hold w can sometimes be a lot better than looping trees or an insanely unsafe pallets.
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I don't really think it's a big problem, yes it's annoying but so is playing againts tunneling/camping which is also valid and doesn't need fixing. If you made holding W less effective, you'd need to add more loops to all maps and that still might heavily favor some anti-loop killers.
I'd say leave it be as it is. Fixing it would cause more harm then good.
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I mean I do that already because I can't loop for #########
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Seems like each time one side counters the other the resulting gameplay is even less fun. That's my takeaway from this forum, anyway. Neither side ever seems happy with the state of affairs.
Survivors running circles around knee-high junk is a pretty lame gameplay mechanic. With many pallets, the killer may have little choice but to brute force it, chasing the survivor in a circle until they inch close enough that the survivor is forced to throw down the pallet. If the killer breaks it, the survivor gets to run to the next loop, and the survivor has fun. If the killer Bloodlusts the pallet, the survivor gets annoyed the killer is abusing Bloodlust and not letting them get to the next loop. Neither is really interactive in terms of gameplay. The fun part is usually agreed to be mind-gameable loops.
Anti-loop killers mean survivors are more likely to pre-drop the pallet and not try to loop. In one way, the killer's power has worked because the survivor isn't looping. In another way, the person playing killer loses out on the fun of actually getting to use the killer's power. People don't usually pick a killer and go "Oh boy, I hope the survivor counters my whole kit so I never have to do anything except M1." I mean, I'm exaggerating a bit, I think (I hope), though it might get less exaggerated as the meta changes.
And I've seen survivors say they don't find holding w and pre-dropping the pallet fun, but they do it because that's the optimal play. People often play to win, even when it means they make the game itself less fun, because they want to feel the reward of winning. Both sides do this, and that's because the game's design seems to push them to it.
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What killer did not like is the infinite and the fact that a loop connect to another loop example cow tree connect to the killer shack and the killer connect to a TL.
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Well...what else are they supposed to do, stand still.
Map size is the thing that needs to be adjusted most and then maybe throw in some super unsafe pallets where some dead zones are. Again are survivors just supposed to stand still?
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huh you cant group all killers together for the minority that camps
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You are right. My mistake I shouldn't have implied that all killers do this.
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I still can't get over how killers have totally reclaimed and reversed what "Holding W" means now.
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You know your not supposed to be able to loop the killer forever right?
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It was always a problem. The solution would probably be to make killers less noticeable (smaller TRs, crank up the fog for survivors, nerf perks like Premonition and Spine Chill, stuff like that), so that survivors don't have as much of a warning about the killer's movements.
Just to put this in numbers: with a 32-meter TR and a 4.6 m/s killer, if a survivor (without Exhaustion perks) starts running in a straight line when the killer is 30 meters away, the killer will take a maximum of 50 seconds (no Bloodlust, no movement speed buffs) to reach that survivor the first time.
The killer can, of course, just leave that survivor, but then the survivor goes right back on their gen. And if everyone else does that, the killer is screwed. There's just not enough time to chase 4 survivors for 50 seconds 12 times (that's 10 minutes) just to get the first hit.
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You know as surv you should be able to loop the killer more than 5 secs, right?
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Holding W is no more a problem than camping/tunneling.
As a killer I rarely run into survivors who just hold W - and when I do it doesn't deter me really. There are ways to counter W just like there are ways to counter camping as a survivor. It's way easier for 1 killer to counter W than it is for one survivor to counter camping/tunneling. Both are "valid" tactics - not ones I would use, but hey - to each their own I guess.
Like most things on these forums - I think some people are just blowing the topic out of proportion in an attempt to stir up things.
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I never said you couldn't last longer then 5 second but they said they hate looping until they are downed...
Which is the entire point of looping is to stall how long it takes for you to go down as your not supposed to be immortal while looping.
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I saw that same video, and holding W definitely works! BHVR designed this game so that you can loop the Killer, but with the speed boost you get from being injured on top of other perks that can hide you from the killer, it just makes sense to just keep running forward. It might be boring gameplay, but until they start getting creative with killers that don't rely on range attacks, holding W will be the new meta.
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I do that with my friend we dont interact with the killer at all. When the last gen is 99 we do all bones to make sure we dont get noed and we get chase by the killer like that we pip up and have easy game. Best thing we dont need to think the game provide all the info for us because we are survivor
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I don't think maps need to be smaller, some maps are actually smaller than what the wiki shows (or at least the actual usable area of the map, most maps have giant dead zones that are there for no reason since no survivor will actually go there) look at the example below, supposedly 144 square tiles, but how much will it shrink if we take away all the dead zones? (and that was not the only edge of the map that was a giant dead zone) and that's not even the smallest map, imagine dead dawg salon if we took away all the edges of the map that are basically there for no reason other than be a dead zone with no pallets or anything.
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Here we go again...
First it was stealth. Then it was extreme looping. Now running is becoming the thing that some people think is an issue. 🙄
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"Running" is not the issue, though. I explain the problem quite clearly here:
Let me know if you have any questions.
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You cant yell at survivors for looping then yell at them for playing safe. The problem isnt the survivors, or gens, its that the game has no mandatory secondary objectives. This has always been the issue. Bhvr keeps trying to cover this by adding other stuff in like hex totems, chests, totems, archive challanges etc etc
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well.... they could reduce every maps size and then nerf high mobility killers:
Nurse 1 blink only
Hag to can't teleport outside the TR
Freddy can't teleport to gens
Demogorgon portals reduced to 2 and breaks after use
Spirit phase walk speed reduced to 115%
Wraith invisible speed reduced to 130%
Blight lethal rush speed reduced to 150%
Oni demon dash speed reduced to 150%
Hillbilly chainsaw sprint speed reduced to 150%
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What would be the point of reducing map size if you just make killers slower again? We'd be right back where we started.
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Because people play survivor because being chased by the killer is the only fun part of DBD and this guy is acting like he should be entitled to free easy downs regardless of the survivors skill level. We already have Nurse and Spirit for that, it doesn’t need to be every killer in the game.
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Nobody is acting like that. Did you actually read the arguments put forth by the OP?
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Nurse’s map mobility isn’t good. M1 killers actually move across the map faster due to her recharge.
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Bruh wut?
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If this was truly the case, then tunneling wouldn't be complained about.
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Survivors have no ways to hide. Maps are already way too small and most loops have been made unsafe. Because pallets are sooooo severely limited, extending the chase is the only option. Killers don't need it any easier with smaller maps. Killers like Blight are too oppressive on even the largest maps.
Killers need a nerf.
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Well, let's take a look at the last killers released and how they interact with pallets and windows:
- Nemesis, can hit over pallets and windows
- Trickster, can hit over pallets and windows
- Twins, Victor can hit over pallets and windows
- Pyramidhead, can hit over pallets and windows
- Deathslinger, can hit over pallets and windows
Since 1,5 years only Blight has to outplay a pallet or window in a creative way. Against all others you should drop early or you are going to get hit in most loops, not all loops but a lot of them.
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Maps have always been the biggest problem with this game in terms of balance, that hasn't changed. In fact it got even worse with the realm-what-the-[BAD WORD]-ever thing they did, they buffed the safety on every map they redid except for ormond.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Exactly
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Its hard for me to believe that you would actually enjoy a chase by just holding W.
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You know there are Pallets and windows that survivors can interact with, some very kind devs put them in for a purpose :)
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In what way?
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Thats why adept and learn how to Loop these killers, they have counterplay except Nurse and Spirit, so learn that counterplay and apply it :)
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There is no counter to holding w. The only counter is the map itsself and that is RNG depended unless you use every single game a map offering which is very unlikely. Also the reason why it is a problem is because it wastes a massive amount of time of a normal Killer that doesnt has a good movementspeed ability without even using recourses like Pallets.
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There are more big maps than small maps in dbd, the chances are very low to get these maps and yes IF you get the smaller maps than there is no reason to complain. But imagine you want to play a relaxed game of Pig and you get Red fores... well have fun.
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"some" oof
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I agree with you, you got a good point there and explained it very well! Maybe not the nerf of the perks since, how do you want to nerf them even? But a smaller base TR could also help but therefore the maps need also more vision blocks imp. Maps like Wreckers yard, Shelter Woods etc are WAY too open, it is so easy to find survivors there imo.
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Ppl who complained about looping are probably Killers who dont even play Killer at a average skill level. I would never compain about looping, infact I would love to get that. I had games where I just wanted to play Nemesis and all 4 of the ppl where just running and not even trying to loop me cuz ofc Nemesis has a strong anti Loop ability, which I agree with but we ended up having a 8min match with just about 3-4 pallets dropped without any real mindgame or other interaction.
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First you whine about looping, now it’s holding W
lf they can’t loop and they can’t hold W (these being the only options they have in the game)
what should they do? And people say survivors are entitled…………………
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I hear you, Im just saying the issue isnt holding W. If its a problem for nemmy you can cover that weakness with perks. My point is looping ir holding w, doesnt matter. The problem is match speeds
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