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Rebalanced Survivors

Vulgun
Vulgun Member Posts: 439
in Feedback and Suggestions

Let's make this game a little fairer for the Killer, but also a little more fun for the Survivor. You know, since this game needs a shake-up quite badly.

Bloodpoint Gains

  • Buff: Bloodpoints earned from Survivor score events is increased by 25% in all categories, allowing Survivors to earn more Bloodpoints faster.

Generator Repair

  • Nerf: The amount of charges required to repair a generator is increased to 120 (from 80), increasing total time required to repair a generator to 120 seconds without any other factors.
  • Nerf: Repair speed efficiency is nerfed between all Survivors.
    • 2 Survivors: 65% (from 85%)/1.3 charges/second
    • 3 Survivors: 50% (from 70%)/1.5 charges/second
    • 4 Survivors: 45% (from 55%)/1.8 charges/second
  • Buff: Great Skill Check Windows are now increased by 7%.
  • Buff: Survivors now gain a passive increase to repair speeds if another Survivor is killed, sacrificed or disconnects, increasing by 10% per Survivor, up to 30% for the last one. This will not stack with Perks that increase repair speed efficiency.

Totem Cleansing

  • Nerf: Cleansing speed on Dull Totems is increased to 60 seconds.
  • Nerf: Cleansing speed on Hex Totems is increased to 30 seconds.

Healing

  • Buff: The amount of Survivors that can heal you is increased to all three.

Hatch Escape

  • Buff: When a hatch is closed, Survivors can now re-open it by themselves after 20 seconds.

Items

Keys

  • Removal: Keys are now removed from the game.

Maps

  • Buff: Maps now inherit every Key add-on.

Wooden Planks

  • Addition: Wooden Planks are a new item that allows Survivors to fight back against the Killer, albeit in some feeble attempt to. Using a Wooden Plank on a Killer will:
    • Cause their Basic Attack to go into the recoil animation if it connects during a basic attack.
    • Stun the Killer for 3 seconds.
  • Wooden Planks only have 1 charge and thus, one use.
  • Killers stunned by Wooden Planks are given a 30 second invulnerability period before being able to be stunned by the Wooden Planks again. Killers are also given an "Invincible" timer on the far right of their screen to tell how long they are invincible from being struck again.
  • Wooden Planks cannot stun a Killer that is carrying a Survivor.
  • Wooden Planks come with no add-ons.
  • Item rarity for Wooden Planks is Very Rare.

Iron Pipes

  • Addition: Iron Pipes are a new item that allows Survivors to fight back against the Killer, and they are a little more effective than a Wooden Plank. Using an Iron Pipe on a Killer will:
    • Cause their Basic Attack to go into the recoil animation if it connects, and increase the recoil duration by 50%.
    • Stun the Killer for 5 seconds.
  • Iron Pipes have 3 charges, and thus, 3 uses.
  • Killers stunned by Iron Pipes are given a 60 second invulnerability period before being able to be stunned by Iron Pipes again. Killers are also given an "Invincible" timer on the far right of their screen to tell how long they are invincible from being struck again.
  • Iron Pipes can stun Killers who are carrying Survivors.
  • Iron Pipes come with no add-ons.
  • Item rarity for Iron Pipes is Ultra Rare.
  • Running Iron Pipes will reduce the amount of pallets on the map by 2 per player using them, up to 8 pallets.

Dodge Roll

  • Addition: Dodge Roll is a new base game mechanic that allows Survivors to dodge 1 attack from the Killer, although it will put them in the Exhausted state upon use.

Perks

Retired Perks

The following is a list of Perks that will be retired for Survivors either due to their ineffectiveness or being filler:

  • Premonition
  • Resilience
  • Small Game
  • Spine Chill
  • This is Not Happening
  • Self-Care
  • Saboteur
  • Balanced Landing
  • Dead Hard
  • No Mither
  • Rookie Spirit

Adrenaline

  • Nerf: The duration of Adrenaline's speed boost is reduced to 3 seconds (from 5 seconds).

Any Means Necessary

  • Buff: Cooldown reduced to 80/60/40 seconds (from 100/80/60 seconds).

Babysitter

  • Buff: Now grants the Endurance status effect to yourself when unhooking a Survivor and again for 3 seconds after you've unhooked them.
  • Nerf: Being hit during this status effect will inflict the Broken status effect.

Bite the Bullet

  • Buff: Now prevents the perk A Nurse's Calling from activating.

Borrowed Time

  • Nerf: The Endurance status effect duration is reduced to 4/6/8 seconds (from 8/10/12 seconds).

Breakout

  • Buff: Survivor wiggling speed increase is increased to 30% (from 20%).

Counterforce

  • Buff: Cleansing totems is now 50% faster (from 20%).
  • Nerf: Can no longer gain a stackable 20% increase in cleansing speeds per totem.

Decisive Strike

  • Buff: Decisive Strike can now be activated regardless of any conditions; all prior deactivation conditions are removed.
  • Buff: Decisive Strike is now activated by using a designated ability button, rather than a skill check.
  • Nerf: Only tone Survivor can have Decisive Strike at a time.
  • Nerf: Decisive Strike can only be used once.

Deliverance

  • Buff: The second hook state is no longer a Struggle state if Deliverance is active.

Distortion

  • Buff: The amount of tokens you start with is increased to 5 (from 3).
  • Buff: When hooked by a Killer, all Survivors outside of a 32 meter radius of you will no longer have their auras read by any aura-reading ability.
  • Nerf: You lose 2 tokens if you are hooked by the Killer.

Flashbang

  • Buff: Flashbangs can now be thrown upward and forward by looking up.
    • As you can imagine, this will make chases more hilarious when these hit.
    • Also will make it so that they're more useful and less predictable.
  • Buff: Flashbangs that are within a 4 meter radius of the Killer will now stun them out of any actions they are performing, including pallet breaking and hooking. This is on a cooldown of 120 seconds to prevent abuse.
  • Nerf: The total amount of Flash Grenades that can be on the field at once are reduced to 8 (from "Infinite until the game crashes"). Adding another will despawn the first Flash Grenade that was crafted.

Flip-Flop

  • Reworked: When recovering, 50%/75%/100% of all recovery progression is transferred over to your Wiggling progression.
  • Nerf: This Perk has a cooldown of 120 seconds.

Head On

  • Nerf: The duration of the Exhausted status effect is increased to 160/140/120 seconds.

Hope

  • Nerf: Hope no longer stacks with any other speed-boosting perk.

Left Behind

  • Rework: Left Behind no longer allows you to see the aura of the hatch. However, if you are the last Survivor in the trial, you:
    • Buff: Now take 3 additional hits before being put into the Dying State.
    • Buff: Have a 100% action speed increase in repairing generators, cleansing totems, opening chests, re-opening hatch and opening the exit gates.
    • Buff: No longer automatically progress the Entity Sacrifice to the third stage when hooked.
    • Buff: Have a 100% chance of unhooking on the first stage of the Sacrifice (or second if you have Deliverance active).
    • Nerf: Now suffer from a permanent Broken status effect.

Mettle of Man

  • Buff: Mettle of Man now activates whenever you take 3 hits in general.
  • Nerf: Mettle of Man now has a cooldown of 180 seconds on activation.

Off the Record

  • Nerf: Off the Record now only has a duration of 240 seconds after the start of the trial, after which it deactivates.

Prove Thyself

  • Buff: Succeeding a Great Skill Check while Prove Thyself is active now increases generator progression by 10%. However, this only applies to the user and not the other Survivors, and will not apply when Toolboxes are being used.
  • Nerf: Prove Thyself deactivates if any Survivor is using a Toolbox to repair.

Smash Hit

  • Buff: Smash Hit now causes any pallet dropped to stun a Killer for 5 seconds. This only activates if you are not exhausted.
  • Nerf: Any pallet dropped on a Killer with Smash Hit while not exhausted will cause it to break.

Soul Guard

  • Buff: Soul Guard now protects the user from the effects of all active Hex Totems. The following is a list:
    • Blood Favour no longer causes the Entity to hold up Pallets when hit.
    • Crowd Control no longer blocks a window during a rushed Vault.
    • Devour Hope no longer inflicts the Exposed status effect nor does it allow the Killer to kill you.
    • Haunted Ground no longer inflicts the Exposed status effect.
    • Huntress Lullaby no longer affects Skill Checks.
    • No One Escapes Death no longer inflicts the Exposed status effect.
    • Retribution no longer causes the Oblivious status effect and will no longer let the Killer see your aura.
    • Ruin no longer causes a Generator you last repaired to automatically regress.
    • The Third Seal will no longer inflict the Blindness status effect.
    • Thrill of the Hunt will no longer reduce cleansing speeds.
    • And Undying will not go into effect when cleansing other totems.
  • Nerf: Soul Guard no longer grants the Endurance status effect.
  • Nerf: Soul Guard's active ability now only activates after all Totems are cleansed.
  • Nerf: Soul Guard has a cooldown of 60 seconds when picking yourself up from the ground.
  • Nerf: Soul Guard can only be used by one Survivor.
  • Nerf: Soul Guard will now guarantee that you are the Obsession.

Sprint Burst

  • Buff: Sprint Burst can now be activated by pressing the Activate ability button.
  • Nerf: Sprint Burst will override the ability of Dodge Roll when used.

Unbreakable

  • Nerf: Unbreakable will no longer activate if:
    • The Survivor already used Soul Guard to get back up.
    • The Survivor runs Decisive Strike.

We're Gonna Live Forever

  • Buff: The amount of tokens earned when using this Perk is increased to 4/6/8 (from 4), also increasing the maximum amount of Bonus Bloodpoints earned from 50%/75%/100% to 100%/150%/200%.

At this point, I should just make my own game. Probably would be a way better and more productive use of my time. These changes would make the game's weakest point (in my opinion) so much stronger.

Comments

  • ClarityOfWill
    ClarityOfWill Member Posts: 206
    edited June 2021

    There's a few good ideas in here, but I'm sorry, most of these changes would be god awful if they were to be implemented. I have no idea how you'd enforce the one survivor only mechanic (if it's even possible) and a lot of perk nerfs here would absolutely screw over solo players (BT, unbreakable are two of the worst ideas here). Even worse is that increasing gen speeds by a third massively incentivises camping (increased repair speeds wouldn't be enough to offset the benefit) which is one of the least fun things to deal with. A 30% buff is pointless if you're the last one alive anyway since you'd be playing for hatch at that point. Increasing hex totem cleansing to 30 seconds and dull totems strengthens NOED considerably while also giving an unneeded buff to mobility killers running ruin / undying.

    I'll bookmark this post for later since there's a lot to cover and I can't do it justice in a short post. However, a lot of these reworks don't make sense to me and do very little to fix the issues that killers / soloq players have.

  • Dino7281
    Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294

    Yeah, just no...

    Gen speed is not issue, this would make games terrible. 60 sec totem cleanse, yeah hell no.

    Healing: sure, it is not going to happen often anyway.

    Hatch: no, end game would be nightmare. Just gates are sometimes impossible to watch. Right now, I don't mind playing over hatch with last survivor, but with this I am gonna slug like crazy.

    Keys don't need to be removed, just remove them from chest and give them animation (10 sec , can't be 99%).

    Planks / Pipes seems super broken and there is no reason to have BS like that in game.

    Dodge roll: so just Dead hard for everyone? No. Op and there wouldn't be any reason to run other exhaustion perks, maybe balance landing and head on for fun.

    Some perk changes seem good, some awfull, but I am too lazy to deal with that.

  • Lexilogo
    Lexilogo Member Posts: 587
    edited June 2021

    Milo did a pretty good job point by point so I'm just going to focus on the most impactful thing here, the good old "just make gens take longer!" idea that needs bonking again.

    But not before saying, seriously dude, "removed spine chill for being ineffective/filler" has pretty much revoked your Common Sense License.


    Okay, look, we've all been there. I play Killer almost exclusively and I'm not the best Killer in the world, I know what it's like to be gen pressured, we all do. It's probably the biggest fundamental problem with the game, because against a lot of Killers, it really feels that Killers physically don't have enough time to beat the Survivor team if the first Survivor they find is a great looper and if the other 3 are co-ordinated at generator repairs.

    I'd LOVE if this problem got resolved. The way to do it is NOT by just increasing flat gen speeds, at least not by any more than ~10 seconds or so, and here's why:

    • Despite this fundamental issue with the game I just acknowledged, the actual stats for survival rates aren't actually that out of whack and if you trusted them mindlessly, it'd prove Killers are overpowered. (And also that Nurse is the weakest Killer in the game so you know, don't)
    • This is because Generator "rushing" is primarily a co-ordination issue. The primary skillcurve here is how much time Survivors are dedicating to barrelling towards gens at Mach 1. It's a "skill" that's more like a form of application of priorities but it's the #1 factor that determines survival in games IMO.
    • And, because Survivors do not start the game with a secondary objective that distracts from this in any meaningful way. Killers can create one using Hex Perks, and they will create one upon getting a hook, but expert Survivors only engage with Dull Totems, Chests, or exploring the map in general if they're messing around and not taking the game seriously.
    • In fact, Survivors start the game with every advantage concievable, and while this is part of the intended design, with time being on the Killer's side, depending on Survivor spawn conditions, the map, and looping skill, getting a hook before 3 gens pop can prove genuinely impossible for non-meta Killers.
    • And that's all without bringing up the obvious fact that Survivors are already finding 80 second gens boring.


    From this, I would say the "fundamental game problem fix" would/could probably come in a few forms.

    1. If we're going with big rework time, adding a major secondary objective that incentivises exploring the map and is part of the basegame would be the obvious thing. Some people have suggested "generator parts" or fuseboxes that slow down gen progress if you don't do them but can speed them up if you do, you could tie Totems into generator delay in some form as part of their basekit, this could be part of a Key overhaul, ecetera, the point is that this should make optimal Survivor play involve more than just repairing gens and unhooking. Ideally, this will also help wandering new Survivors be more useful to their team.
    2. Survivor spawn logic refinement. ScottJund made this pretty good observation based on Lethal Pursuer, and how it kind of reveals how hopeless map spawns can sometimes be, even when you know where every Survivor is immediately.
    3. Map refinement and overhauls. Infinites are (mostly, I've heard the RPD has one so maybe the map being disabled is a blessing in disguise) gone but some map features like L-T walls can still be really nasty without requiring Survivors to expend any resources, there are still some maps in the game that are too big, "dead corners" that don't have enough hooks nearby are often still a problem, and so on.
    4. A general change in looping philosophy. This is part and parcel to what #3 would ideally be, but let's be honest, BHVR in their current state are already reworking maps, they're just honestly not doing it well. We consider ourselves lucky when the outcome is relatively neutral. The two major issues are that god pallets should be kept to an absolute minimum and that breakable walls are currently depending on placement either near-worthless additions to the game, or effectively god pallets without the Survivor decisionmaking that makes god pallets excusable, and need a rework. Please don't necro this thread because it's old, but I've got what I consider a good rework concept here alongside a deeper analysis of breakable walls and why they're making the game worse.

    The final 3 points, if executed well enough, I believe could largely solve or at least greatly allieviate the problem all on their own. The first point is more ambitious, but could also solve the problem on its own without absolutely requiring the other three changes. I think all of them, however, could contribute to making the game more fun if done correctly, which is probably more important than any big picture balancing discussion.


    All that is why, given a serious analysis of the game's systems, a flat increase to gen repair times (at least not without a major compensatory mechanic that acts as a secondary objective) is NOT the solution to the game's problems or necessary to fix the "genrush" issue.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,429

    Nerf: Cleansing speed on Dull Totems is increased to 60 seconds.

    Okay, I am going to stop here immediately: This is demented. This is a supermassive buff to the absolute worst designed perk in the entire game, because there would literally be no reason not to run NOED on every killer literally all the time since it costs the survivors a FULL FIVE MINUTES or gets the killer free kills.

    This is also just the worst idea design-wise since it would consist of someone holding LMB for 60 seconds straight, doing nothing else. It's disturbingly boring and without addressing the fact that progress is reset when the action is interrupted, this is a set-up for a gameplay experience that will undoubtedly be characterised as 'cancerous'. Imagine being over halfway done, having spent the last half minute not doing anything of note and then someone goes down nearby and Infectious Fright resets your progress. You'd quit on the spot and NO ONE would be able to disagree with you.


    And while I'm here, there's another big disagreement:

    Nerf: Repair speed efficiency is nerfed between all Survivors.

    This is the exact opposite of what the game could benefit from. Solo speeds being reduced makes sense, because currently there is the issue of '3 gens on 1st hook', but you don't fix this by just making -everything- take longer, -all the time-. This is just making the game last way longer which pushes a delicate balance about a mile and a half in favour of the killer. Instead of games being a coin toss and pretty much down to player skill, it'll turn into a 4K standard unless the killer just isn't trying. Heck, you could just Bloodlust out every chase and you would probably not even come close to losing. Especially if you're bringing Pop.

    And it's specifically down to this aspect. The perfect way to help the game out as it is, is likely to be a solo gen speed slow-down in exchange for a co-op gen speed buff. The reason for this is because it makes for more strategic considerations on the part of the survivors. If they all split up, they're safer, but if they work together, they're faster. If they work together, though, and the killer finds their gen, that's to the benefit of the killer, so faster also means riskier. And if the killer hooks someone, they don't just lose that survivor for the time they spend on the hook, but they also lose the co-op bonus that survivor can provide, meaning the killer gets more value out of a hook than they currently do.

    So in short: Less punishing of gen co-opping improves gameplay for survivors while buffing killers slightly.


    You know what? I'm gonna go through it while I'm here.


    When a hatch is closed, Survivors can now re-open it by themselves after 20 seconds.

    No. This makes the end-game collapse a nightmare for the killer for no real reason.


    Wooden Planks, Iron Pipes, Dodge Roll

    It's essentially Dead Hard in triplicate, and considering how frustrating Dead Hard is already considered to be, I don't think this is good for the game's health. Additionally, the wooden plank or iron pipe are just way too powerful. Access to killer stuns is rare for a reason.


    The following is a list of Perks that will be retired for Survivors either due to their ineffectiveness or being filler

    And among these you proceed to list Resilience, Self-Care, Balanced Landing, Rookie Spirit, and most baffling of all, Small Game and -Spine Chill-.

    The single best defensive intel perk in the game you want to remove for being 'ineffective'? You want to ditch the best totem-hunter perk in the game on the side?

    I mean, I get that Resilience, Self-Care, Balanced Landing and Rookie Spirit are underwhelming at times, but have you ever ran Self-Care with Botany and Desperate Measures? It's hilarious, you can heal yourself faster than others can heal you. I once took three hits for another survivor, all in the same chase, purely because I was able to heal that damn fast on my field medic build.

    Resilience is a fair pick if you have means of -staying- injured. It's infamous for being the meme pick alongside No Mither, but it stops being a meme pick when you pair it with For the People, where you not only cut out time spent on healing but then also proceed to do gens faster.

    Balanced Landing is still a serviceable perk even if it doesn't compare to other exhaustion perks. But that's other exhaustion perks. It still blows about 60-70% of the roster out of the water.

    Rookie Spirit is a surprisingly fair intel perk, feeding you info on the whereabouts of other survivors, the state of their gens, their gens' locations, and if there's no Ruin, the killer's location. It should absolutely stay.

    On top of that, there's no reason to remove those perks. If they're weak, buff them, don't just delete them.

    Then on to the perk changes.

    Adrenaline

    No reason to nerf it down to 3 seconds, it has the most stringent activation condition.

    Babysitter

    This is the exact opposite of Babysitter's intent. It's supposed to make the unhooker the obvious, appealing target. If you give them endurance, you do the exact opposite and force the killer to go for the person you're babysitting.

    You know how the Babysitter gets to see the killer's aura? Just extend that courtesy to the person being unhooked to help the perk do its job.

    Bite the Bullet

    Perk to perk countering creates an unhealthy environment. This is Dead by Daylight, not Rock-Paper-Scissors. You'd have a better chance with it blocking all aura reading universally, but I'm not sure BtB even needs it.

    Borrowed Time

    At this point, does it even do anything anymore? This is the wrong nerf, it just needs to disallow body-blocking.

    Breakout

    Appreciate the attempt, but this perk is unbuffable. Any push that makes it at all reliable in escaping the killer's grasp would push it from weak to game-breaking.

    Counterforce

    Meh. Slight improvement I suppose.

    Decisive Strike

    No, it should not go back to what it was. It should not be a free 'hop off the killer's shoulder'. It should stay as an anti-tunnelling perk and it should be focused on that purpose and nothing else.

    Also, this:

    Only one Survivor can have Decisive Strike at a time.

    Is untenable. Do you load into the lobby and then just get told to swap? How does the game determine which of the survivors that have it equipped gets to keep the free escape?

    Deliverance

    Actually a good suggestion but there's some clunk to work through because if your second phase does not go into struggle, that's just giving the killer a big ol' red flag that you're about to jump off. But some way to make it work during second hook state would be an absolutely fair buff to this otherwise insanely unreliable perk.

    Distortion

    Basically the same as the Bite the Bullet thing: This is Rochambeau-ing the game.

    Flashbang

    This really wouldn't help it be more reliable at all, it's already impossible to use and putting it ahead of you wouldn't really help because you'd be more likely to blind yourself than the killer.

    Also:

    The total amount of Flash Grenades that can be on the field at once are reduced to 8 (from "Infinite until the game crashes"). Adding another will despawn the first Flash Grenade that was crafted.

    Seems pointless, since producing that quantity of Flashbangs probably requires all five players in the lobby to be in on the joke, so the only ones hurt by the crash are those who -want- to get crashed.

    Flip-Flop

    You can't put a cooldown on a continuous effect, that's how you wind up with Saboteur's mess. What if you stop recovering for half a second, does that disable the perk? What if the killer picks you up immediately, does it just go on cooldown without doing anything?

    For the time being, I think Flip-flop should stay as is, because it's in a similar state to Breakout.

    Head-on

    Worst exhaustion perk gets a nerf slapped onto it, okay.

    Hope

    Another really bad perk gets a bizarre nerf. If someone's running Hope, they are banking hard on that combo and deserve to use it in the specific circumstance that they are in a chase after gen 5.

    Left Behind

    I was going to start off with 'these action speeds are pointless because you should already be leaving', but honestly? Left Behind is a bad perk and while this re-design certainly wouldn't make it a strong pick, it'd make it a content-generating machine and I'm here for it.

    Mettle of Man

    Wasn't this the utterly busted form it used to be in?

    Off the Record

    So you don't make noise and can't get your aura read for the first 240 seconds of the trial? That's probably mostly going to end up running when you don't need it, only to toggle off when the game actually gets going.

    Prove Thyself

    That is absolutely horrifying. Two survivors working on a gen and getting 10% per second on top of their normal speed? Or 20% per second if they're both using it, I suppose.

    Smash Hit

    Issue with Smash Hit isn't that it doesn't stun the killer long enough, it's that pallet stuns are insanely unreliable. And some killers' playstyles make them naturally unlikely to be stunned. (Twins, Huntress, Nurse, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head)

    Soul Guard

    It's already a hex counter and it really shouldn't go the same Rock-paper-scissors way. Additionally, again, 'only one survivor' isn't tenable.

    Sprint Burst

    Best exhaustion perk gets big buff, why?

    Although I suppose it's no longer the best exhaustion perk considering Dead Hard was made baseline and that free perk slot is quite the incentive.

    Unbreakable

    No reason to have Unbreakable stop functioning after Soul Guard. It's two perk slots for the effect of one, it's hardly game-breaking.

    And, uh...

    The Survivor runs Decisive Strike.

    You wouldn't need to fix this problem if you didn't make DS unconditional to begin with. UB is fine as a supporting perk to DS in its current state.

    We're Gonna Live Forever

    Appreciate the gesture but it's overall going to be irrelevant because you're not getting that many stacks unless you are hard-core farming your teammates.

    Instead, WGLF should have a better focus on Altruism by also awarding tokens for healing progress on allies, and other perks should be added to grant BP tokens on other activities, such as a perk to grant bonus BP per X seconds of chase, or per X% of gen progress. All mutually exclusive, of course.

  • Vulgun
    Vulgun Member Posts: 439
    edited June 2021
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318340#Comment_2318340

    Alright, time to answer all of these in a manner that makes my points understandable, and also time for me to fix a few "meh" ideas I had when writing it up.

    Generator Repairs

    I'll get to this later.

    Totems

    I want Totems to have a reasonable base amount of cleansing required to take them down, not a simple 14 second (or significantly less) cleansing that would make it nigh-on impossible to keep them after the first 30 seconds of a matchh.

    If need be, I can add that Totems can be cleansed by two people at the same time for a 25% boost in cleansing speeds. Plus, Counterforce itself would also work in handy here since you can run it to make it 75% or even 125%, which is admittedly both lower or higher than current; it's a change that would give the perk some use alongside its change.

    Hatch Escape

    If the hatch is closed, Survivors can try to go for it immediately to try and open it. The opening time is 20 seconds, but you can attempt to open it whenever. Opening time is also cumulative and doesn't reset.

    Keys and Maps

    So Keys are just plain dumb to play against; if a Survivor is smart (or just has good memory), they can just EZ escape a hatch around the end of the match. Escape shouldn't be that easy for anybody, so keys needed to be removed.

    But I didn't want to lose all of the aura-reading abilities of keys. Those are really good for the game, so they would belong on the maps instead. I'd probably also rework maps so that they are one rarity less so they pop up a little more often.

    Wooden Planks and Iron Pipes

    When you activate the item:

    • Charge time is 0.25 seconds
    • You gain a "parry detection hitbox" in front of you for 0.3 seconds.
    • If you are successful, you will know from the item breaking or the Killer recoiling.
    • The winddown for missing is 3 seconds, but hitting is 1 second for Wooden Plank.
    • The winddown for missing is 5 seconds, but hitting is 0.5 seconds for Iron Pipe.

    This means Killers don't need to wait too long for the parry to run out. The counter detection hitbox is also pretty huge since it needs to be for latency. It's about 2 meters long in a 70 degree cone.

    Dodge Roll

    It's Dead Hard as a native and universal Survivor ability.

    Retired Perks

    Balanced Landing was included because I changed Sprint Burst to be an ability you can activate rather than something that just happens. This means that there's no 75% reduction in stagger, but you can use Sprint Burst to just accelerate yourself. If I were to not retire it, then it would just be a reduction perk; 50% reduction in stagger at most, but no exhaust.

    Spine Chill is removed because it's honestly NOT a good perk. Yes, I'm aware it's good for trying to track when a Killer is looking at you (outside their terror radius), but it is heavily inconsistent and its other effects are even more inconsistent since they almost never occur (due to the Killers primarily not targeting you if they look in your direction).

    Resilience is also like Spine Chill; not good, and arguably worse because not only do you have to be Injured, but some Killers just run Stridor. If you want, I could probably replace Resilience and Spine Chill with something that grants a native 7% increase in repairs for 10/12/14 seconds whenever the Killer looks into your direction, but that increase in repairs is further increased to 15% whenever you are injured as well. Then add a cooldown of 30 seconds afterwards and boom, Spine Chill + Resilience but at least moderately better.

    Also maps would be great for Killer location now, just saying.

    Rookie Spirit is actually extremely laughable, and I love Leon as a character. I'd probably replace Rookie Spirit with something like, I don't know, perhaps a perk that probably ties into Leon's side of justice; something more befitting to his character. Maybe if you take a protection hit for somebody else within a certain range, they get inspired by your bravery and gain a brief boost of speed or something. Something to help the team out in chase.

    Babysitter

    • You are broken for 60/50/40 seconds.
    • And for Firellius specifically:
      • The idea for this is that it gives you time to save the hooked Survivor and protect them. It gives you a chance to unhook the Survivor, then do a second protection hit for them; two different Endurance Status effects at the same time, which is meant for some very clutch plays.
      • You are literally "risking it all" for those in need, as the description says. You are constantly body-blocking to ensure your teammate escapes.

    Bite the Bullet

    • A Nurse's Calling is absolute BS even for the Killer side. It needs some sort of counterplay to it.
    • But making it so that you are also silent when being healed would be nice.

    Decisive Strike

    • What I wanted to do with Decisive Strike was make it "literally the clutch move it's meant to be". So one time use, can use it at any time when the opportunity is right.
    • As for how the game can force it, simple. Decisive Strike acts like Prove Thyself. It simply won't work if multiple players try to run it.
    • So how is this solved? Simple:
      • Decisive Strike guarantees that you are the Obsession.
      • If Decisive Strike and Soul Guard are used at the same time, Decisive Strike's effect takes precedence. Soul Guard's effect only takes place after Decisive Strike is used.
      • If two players run Decisive Strike or Soul Guard, the player with Decisive Strike will always be the Obsession.
      • If the Decisive Strike player dies or uses Decisive Strike, the Soul Guard player then becomes the Obsession.
      • This is to prevent the two abilities from overlapping and creating a busted set of perk combos that would just be another DS Unbreakable.

    Deliverance

    • The second hook state acts completely like the first. This means that you have the ability to negate the "Struggle Phase" when running Deliverance.
    • This would be reasonable for two reasons; one, you will still be dead on hook if you are hooked twice already and then hooked a third time, and two, it would make sense that Deliverance allows you to escape hooks after helping others.

    Flashbang

    • See, that buff is only there because I want funny stuff to happen.
    • And the "cooldown" is a stun cooldown, not a cooldown on earning or using the Flash Grenades or their blinding effect. Just the stun.

    Flip-Flop

    • Fair.

    Head On

    • No, screw that Perk and its absolute horse dung of a hitbox.
    • But if you want it to be a reasonable nerf, then fine. 80/70/60 seconds.

    Hope

    • It's its combination with other perks that makes it awful to play against, especially for some Killers who don't have extra mobility or good ranged attacks. Hope alone against endgame Trickster means he only runs 3% faster than you (not accounting for any speed boost perk like NOED or PWYF.

    Left Behind

    • The repair and cleansing is actually good for extra BP and stackable perks. So basically you can further try to reward yourself at the risk of getting caught, but you yourself now have the willpower to try and best the Killer in any way possible.
    • And with the right perks, it could be a monster.

    Mettle of Man

    • 3 minutes of cooldown is pretty huge compared to its original 0 seconds of cooldown. You're not going to get this often, but when you do, it'll feel a little more rewarding and earned.
    • Also because it sucks right now.
    • I'm a Killer main asking for a Mettle of Man buff.

    Off the Record

    • It's a rework that's also a nerf. The reason I want it to be changed like this is to prevent abuse from using it for the entire match. 4 minutes is both long and short, but it's a fair number of time that I would give to it simply because I would find it more fair.

    Prove Thyself

    • Prove Thyself can only be used by one person and again:
      • The perk completely deactivates if a toolbox is used.
      • However this in and of itself would be awful, so it would just force Prove Thyself to be on a 30 second cooldown at most.
      • The perk being only usable if all players aren't trying Toolbox repairs would make it so that things such as 2 second generators simply do. Not. Happen.
    • Yes, many people will still run it, but I wanted to strike at what makes it extremely powerful, not at what makes it useful.
    • Oh and one more thing:
      • The window for Great Skill Checks is continuously reduced to almost nothing when running Prove Thyself. This means if you want to get that 10% bonus, you better be getting some REALLY good shots in.
      • By continuously reduced:
      • 1 Survivor: Normal (100% Size)
      • 2 Survivors: 50%
      • 3 Survivors: 30%
      • 4 Survivors: 25%
      • This means that each Skill Check is going to be so tiny that you'll deserve getting those hits in.

    Smash Hit

    • This ends chase...
    • But it also gets rid of potential god pallets quicker.
    • Also, it would make Enduring pretty decent and relevant.
    • And also, it only activates if you're NOT exhausted, giving it some balance.

    Soul Guard

    • Unlike Decisive, the method in whichever Soul Guard can be used can be determined by whomever has the ability. So let's say that you and someone run Soul Guard, both cleansed totems.
    • Whoever is the Obsession first gets their "getup" first, then the next person, so long as the Obsession's is on cooldown at the time.
    • If the Obsession dies, you become the new Obsession and inherit the abilities in full. (Like a Soul Guard.)
    • Or a better method is to just be able to see the builds of your teammates before the match starts and change accordingly.
    • If no change happens, see the first three steps.
    • As for it working on Undying, it's exactly how I said it. It just completely negates Undying's ability to spawn a second totem to "save" the Hex Perk. This is why cleansing speeds are so much higher.

    Sprint Burst

    • Also because Balanced.

    Unbreakable

    • I want Decisive Strike and Unbreakable to seem like two perks that will come in clutch at the end, but not something that should be combined whatsoever.
    • So when I mean "it will no longer activate", I mean that if you try to run Decisive Strike and Unbreakable, you cannot use Unbreakable. You cannot use two clutch perks like this. That's my stance.

    We're Gonna Live Forever

    • New methods of getting We're Gonna Live Forever:
      • Granting someone the Endurance status effect under any circumstance.
      • Cleansing a Hex Totem that would affect the health of your teammates (i.e. Third Seal, NOED, Devour, etc.)
      • Healing a Survivor back to full health by yourself.
      • Letting a teammate vault before you.
      • Successfully getting a Survivor 16 meters away from the Basement.
      • Using Unbreakable or Soul Guard to pallet stun a Killer at any point.
      • And 1 stack for each Survivor that gets out with you.
    • Additionally, stacks of the perk can be seen to Survivors only near their icons, just so all Survivors can get maximum value out of it near the end.

    These explanations help a little?

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,429

    Balanced Landing was included because I changed Sprint Burst to be an ability you can activate rather than something that just happens. This means that there's no 75% reduction in stagger, but you can use Sprint Burst to just accelerate yourself. If I were to not retire it, then it would just be a reduction perk; 50% reduction in stagger at most, but no exhaust.

    This is kind of the issue though, since buffing the direct competition to the point of rendering Balanced Landing obsolete is not exactly good balance.

    Spine Chill is removed because it's honestly NOT a good perk. Yes, I'm aware it's good for trying to track when a Killer is looking at you (outside their terror radius), but it is heavily inconsistent and its other effects are even more inconsistent since they almost never occur (due to the Killers primarily not targeting you if they look in your direction).

    That's just... No, that's a severe underestimation of Spine Chill's value. Knowing when the killer is coming for you is a huge benefit, especially if you pair it with Fixated so you can clear out before they get to you.

    Resilience is also like Spine Chill; not good, and arguably worse because not only do you have to be Injured, but some Killers just run Stridor. If you want, I could probably replace Resilience and Spine Chill with something that grants a native 7% increase in repairs for 10/12/14 seconds whenever the Killer looks into your direction, but that increase in repairs is further increased to 15% whenever you are injured as well. Then add a cooldown of 30 seconds afterwards and boom, Spine Chill + Resilience but at least moderately better.

    I don't think any killer will sign off on a potential +15% repair speed perk in a single slot, and I would personally not sign off on imposing a cooldown on Spine Chill.

    The idea for this is that it gives you time to save the hooked Survivor and protect them. It gives you a chance to unhook the Survivor, then do a second protection hit for them; two different Endurance Status effects at the same time, which is meant for some very clutch plays.

    But you shouldn't be needing to protect the unhooked survivor. That's the entire point of Babysitter, obscuring the unhooked survivor so the killer can only go after the babysitter. If the killer is smacking you while you're unhooking someone, Babysitter is pointless anyway, since the scratch mark removal doesn't help against a killer that has direct visual on you. The only use I see for this change to the perk is to make Babysitter/Borrowed Time into a more toxic strategy where the killer's attacks just get flat-out ignored on both the unhooker and the unhooked.

    It'd be better if Babysitter got DS's anti-tunnelling condition: The Babysitter effect is extended from 8 to 30 seconds, but is cancelled out when the unhooked progresses the survivors' game.

    Nurse's Calling is absolute BS even for the Killer side. It needs some sort of counterplay to it.

    It really isn't, it's one of the less offensive intel perks, honestly. And if you want counterplay to it, ironically, you can take Spine Chill to immediately alert you to the killer having it and acting on it.

    As for how the game can force it, simple. Decisive Strike acts like Prove Thyself. It simply won't work if multiple players try to run it.

    That's terrible! So I can load in with a perk that, just because someone else also brought it, does NOTHING? So this perk is going to be unbelievably annoying to both the killers AND the survivors?

    What follows is a five-step plan to figure out exactly how these perks are supposed to function that is going to take a lot of work to actually get through, far more than any perk has the right to task players with. Something about juggling obsessions? This is downright convoluted in an effort to fix a problem created by this very rework, when currently, neither Soul Guard nor Decisive Strike are problems anymore.

    No, screw that Perk and its absolute horse dung of a hitbox.

    If it didn't have that big of a hitbox it'd be even more unreliable than it currently already is. It's immensely difficult to use, which is why it deserves to retain its output.

    It's its combination with other perks that makes it awful to play against, especially for some Killers who don't have extra mobility or good ranged attacks. Hope alone against endgame Trickster means he only runs 3% faster than you (not accounting for any speed boost perk like NOED or PWYF.

    No one runs Hope because it is a terrible perk, and the only perks it could possibly be paired up with to build on this synergy you're talking about are Breakout (Even more conditional and really not an obstruction to the killer because it only activates when you have entirely different priorities. Or should have, anyway.) and Blood Pact, another extremely conditional perk.

    If a survivor dumps two perk slots into hoping they can heal the obsession in the EGC and make a break for it, good for them. Also keep in mind that they counter-synergise unless both targets are running Hope.

    It is okay for two perks combined to have a non-negligible effect.

    Also, Trickster struggling to catch up to someone is a Trickster problem, not a Hope problem.

    Prove Thyself can only be used by one person

    Not at the moment, multiple people can bring it, even though its effects don't stack. But then we're running into the same issue here, which is 'How does the game determine whose Prove Thyself actually does something'?

    And a 10% gen progress burst on a great skill check is still VERY excessive. To put that figure into context: There's a bug with Stake Out that causes ALL great skill checks to get an additional 1% of progress and the devs are hesitant to leave it in as a buff to the perk because it might push gen speeds too much. 10% is practically nuclear.

    Counterbalancing it by making skill checks nigh impossible to hit is just going to make the perk feel bad for the majority of players and will just end up creating more of a balancing issue, since top tier players will be able to finish gens much, MUCH faster than lower tier players, so where does that leave killer balance? Can't buff due to the low ranks, can't nerf due to high ranks.

    So when I mean "it will no longer activate", I mean that if you try to run Decisive Strike and Unbreakable, you cannot use Unbreakable. You cannot use two clutch perks like this. That's my stance.

    Again, it's a problem that your rework of DS creates.

  • JimboMason
    JimboMason Member Posts: 759

    Soul Guard changes look pretty damn cool, but this post is honestly half good and half no

  • maaadinsomniac
    maaadinsomniac Member Posts: 447

    Let's make this game a little fairer for the Killer, but also a little more fun for the Survivor.

    Because I play this game mostly solo as a Survivor since 2016 and it's pain in the ass sometimes, after I read all your changes I will just uninstall this game finally. So "little more fun" not gonna happen.

  • ArborTime
    ArborTime Member Posts: 32
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/261760/rebalanced-survivors

    This entire post can be summarized as "Give Survivor's as little counterplay as possible but I add a few buffs so it seems like I'm not biased."

  • CheeseAnton
    CheeseAnton Member Posts: 882

    There are many, many, MANY terrible suggestions here but I want to focus on the Totems.

    YOU WANT US TO SPEND AN ENTIRE MINUTE TO CLEANSE DULL TOTEMS!? You just buffed NOED massively, now for counterplay survivors must look around and then spend a collective total of 5 minutes.

    But then Counterforce got buffed, you say. We shouldn't have to bring a perk each game to make the game playable, and even then we still spend a total of 2 and a half minutes on totems.

    But then totems that have hexes take less time than dull totems! Yes, but it's still more than doubled the time we have currently, 14 seconds is fine to cleanse a totem especially since we have to do it in one action (in your post it never states that a totem has continued progress, so I'm interpreting it as if you accidentally let go of a totem while at the 40 second mark, you have to reset it and spend another minute there).


    I'm sorry here, but this is terrible. No, not terrible, saying that is offensive to the word terrible. This alone will make me quit the game. Also, it can't even be speed up by 15% because for some reason you're removing 2 of the best perks in the game trying to claim it's because they're bad (Spine Chill and Resilience. I personally rank both of them in the top 10 best survivor perks.) I'm sorry if this came off not very well written, and that's mostly because I'm bad with words, but the totem speeds in these changes alone are so bad I'd quit the game immediately.

  • Milo
    Milo Member Posts: 7,383
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318833#Comment_2318833

    It's just sign up under this, while adding something from myself if you don't mind.

    @Vulgun

    It's a rework that's also a nerf. The reason I want it to be changed like this is to prevent abuse from using it for the entire match. 4 minutes is both long and short, but it's a fair number of time that I would give to it simply because I would find it more fair.

    What abuse? You can use it twice, for 80 seconds after an unhook. How do you abuse that?

    I want Totems to have a reasonable base amount of cleansing required to take them down, not a simple 14 second (or significantly less) cleansing that would make it nigh-on impossible to keep them after the first 30 seconds of a matchh.

    If need be, I can add that Totems can be cleansed by two people at the same time for a 25% boost in cleansing speeds. Plus, Counterforce itself would also work in handy here since you can run it to make it 75% or even 125%, which is admittedly both lower or higher than current; it's a change that would give the perk some use alongside its change.

    ... (Your version of) Counterforce every game IF hex perks become "overpowered" by this change. As I said in my post, you want to replace currect 4-5 meta perks with other 4-5 perks. You want for Counterforce to be run every game. It wouldn't be optional.

    3 minutes of cooldown is pretty huge compared to its original 0 seconds of cooldown.

    You're not going to get this often, but when you do, it'll feel a little more rewarding and earned

    .Also because it sucks right now.

    I'm a Killer main asking for a Mettle of Man buff.

    And im a survivor main wondering why do you think giving it a cooldown would change anything? Because (from what I understand) you Mettle of Man a hit, then it goes on cooldown. Most of the time, when it released, you only needed that one hit anyways.

  • katerbater
    katerbater Member Posts: 128

    I kinda had to stop reading at "Retired Perks"

    Resilience, Spine Chill, Self-Care, Dead Hard are not ineffective or filler. Stop that. Rookie Spirit is also borderline because I have gotten a lot of use out of this perk. But either you don't play survivor enough to know how effective and useful these perks are, or you just want strong perks out of the game because you're a killer main.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,429
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319182#Comment_2319182

    To be fair, Dead Hard's inclusion on that list I can agree with in the context of the suggested rework, since it makes Dead Hard -baseline-.

  • katerbater
    katerbater Member Posts: 128
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318560#Comment_2318560

    This person says spine chill and resilience aren't good perks. ok fam. lost any and all credibility.

  • katerbater
    katerbater Member Posts: 128
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2319204#Comment_2319204

    I honeslty don't even use Dead Hard. I'm much more concerned about them actually thinking Spine Chill is a bad perk.