Both Dead Hard and NOED need to be changed for their unhealthy design.
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So you believe both of them are fine? Even if it denies a hit to a killer or downs the survivor who'd been a team player all game?
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Dead Hard doesnt reward some one for playing poorly, if the person using it is smart theyll use Dead Hard in their loops and play a lot more greedy because they know they can get away with it. Dead Hard is a lot more frustrating since as a killer you feel robbed
Sprint Burst does a lot more and is ultimately the better pick, since it makes almost every part of the map a safe place, if youre in a dead zone with DH it wont really help you all that much
As for NoeD, I do believe it should keep the same effect, but instead of it being given it should be rewarded. Say X amount of hooks nets X amount of instadowns
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in its current state NOED activates once the Exit Gates are powered.
closing hatch powers the Exit Gates, so NOED activates.
regarding the NOED points, i just felt like the Exposed effect is not only pretty boring, it also allows the Killer to do a lot of things that can easily cost everyone the game (e.g. baiting others back in with a possible rescue / slugging everyone). In addition to that, the Killer gets a lot of points while doing so. He gets chases, downs and hooks, all of which positively count towards his Blood Points / Emblems.
I dont want NOED to just carry bad people through the ranks, so i made it into a tombstone. that way it can keep its purpose of being a harsh punishment to survivors who didnt do bones, while also not giving the Killer any undeserved bonus points.
regarding the speed boost, the current Perk needs something to be different in each tier, hence the speed boost that changes.
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People say this all the time, but I don't think they realize A) how every match varies and doing all 5 totems every match isn't always that viable and B) how boring it is to have to knock them out every single round. Part of the fun is looking but not finding them and taking a chance.
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Yeah, I agree. I think NOED is fine as is. It seems like a good counter to genrushing and even if it can be annoying for survivors, it activates in the endgame collapse where everything is no holds barred anyway.
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No, dead hard is fine.
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They do what they are meant to do; help players who are falling behind.
What do you THINK Dead Hard is supposed to do? make flowers and lollipops? It denies a hit.
NoED is SUPPOSED to stay hidden all game until it activates, if it could be cleaned on ONE totem before endgame, it would be utterly garbage. The point of totems is to be an unknown threat that hangs over Survivor's heads and forces them to totem hunt. This was the answer to two things:
- Killers complaining about gen speeds
- Survivors complaining they had nothing to do but fix gens.
Only now Survivors are saying 'Doing gens is boring! But I don't want to do bones! Hex perks are unhealthy! Let me hold E on a gen! But give me something else to do! BUT NOT BONES!'
It's almost like Survivor mains true goal is to just nerf Killers into not being a threat, because even when being given what they wanted (a second objective), they claim it's 'unhealthy' or 'OP' because it ALSO gave Killers power.
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So the same as covering their mistakes?
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I don't get the question. Those perks can cover mistakes. This does not make them 'unhealthy'.
You're personal opinion on second chance perks does not make those perks objectively bad for the game. And you've given no real evidence or arguments to make anyone think these perks are a problem for anyone but people who subjectively dislike them.
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It's not unhealthy that a killer who made a mind game that would otherwise be a down can have their smart play erased by the push of a button? Or a survivor who worked their butt off all game was able to lead the killer on chases can have their effort eliminated by the lighting of a totem? Thanks for totally not understanding all my claims while the majority of the community wants these perks changed. They reward players for making mistakes. That's why they need to be changed why should players be babysat for making mistakes?
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The fact that you think the very few people who agreed with you are a 'majority' is kind of silly.
Also, the part you keep ignoring about NoED, because it does not fit your 'NoED is unhealthy' narrative, is that Survivors can turn it off before it ever activates. You just say 'But what if they can't?' and think that makes you right.
You also ignore that the Killer plays with 3 perks for the entire match, banking on the Risk Vs Reward playstyle of NoED, to clean up in the endgame. Instead, you pretend the Killer is strong through the whole match, or that Survivors are punished for playing well.
Because speaking the truth about NoED does not fit your narrative. You just want people to think It's broken and in need of a change because you, personally, don't like it.
But all those people agreeing with you? They are not the majority. They are a vocal minority. And most of them are pretty obvious about how they just want to nerf Killers for easier Survivor matches.
But keep pretending 'the majority' agrees with you. It's as false as your arguments about how 'unhealthy' NoED is.
Once again; Your opinions on second chance perks are SUBJECTIVE. The fact that you ignore those parts of the perk's balance that don't fit your narrative shows how dishonest your argument is. And if your argument is built on a false narrative, then how can people believe it?
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A very interesting rework to NOED. In fact, It's one of the few that I could get behind and I would love to see it be tested. I think that NOED is already balanced. It's a very strong perk with very reasonable counter-play. A perk that only activates after the doors are powered and can be prevented beforehand seems reasonable to me. However, this rework would bring an interesting dynamic to the end game. The only change to your rework is I think Killers should be given a shortened alternative to their Mori if this perk is active. Some killers have 12-15 sec animations and I feel that it wouldn't instill enough fear or the perk wouldn't have enough power being an end game perk. Most survivors would be able to escape and I think the perk should have the ability to kill at least two survivors before a gate is opened. If the killers could have a 5 - 7 second mori (like Pyramid Head's built in mori), I think the perk would have better balance overall and still be a force to be reckoned with.
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I give up. Nothing will change your mind.
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I agree. Both of those perks could use some changes.
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I agree that dead hard is very strong in the fact that it erases mistakes and adds distance at the touch of a button, rendering a good mind game useless. As a killer its not uncommon to have to deal with this perk several times a match. It can be very frustrating to see all the times you would get a hit but nope dead hard to window or pallet. I think the game would be healthier without it. Same goes for NOED. It can be frustrating to have it happen to you and yeah you can do bones but that doesnt mean it's healthy for the game. Just like old ruin wasnt very "fun" but could be cleansed. The game would be healthier without it. Sprint burst is probably better than Dead Hard but I dont see it as being as problematic.
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It's not a matter of laziness, it's a matter of time and tripping over everyone's feet. As killer, I would love a perk that did nothing but block exit gates til all the totems are cleansed, it would be 10× stronger than NOED, especially if a team has even a single solo survivor on it.
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Would gladly get rid of both of those perks in all honesty.
But since that isn't an option, I would:
- Make Dead Hard remove your ability to interact for 1.5-2s after using it.
- Make NOED work on a timer after last gen is popped, with each unique hook increasing the timer. (40s with 0 hooks and +30s per unique hook for example). This is if it stays a Hex, if it was changed to be a regular perk, the numbers would be lowered.
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Nerfing either in any way will basically make them useless.
You can't take away the distance of DH without making it useless and if you take away the i frames it becomes even more unreliable. Pretty much everyone who wants to nerf DH wants the range to be gutted so lol
And NOED is just kind of bleh. There's so many perks now to counteract it and honestly my favorite one to do so is Small Game which is a default perk ALL survivors have access to. Getting an idea for where all totems are and checking them when the last gen is done is the way to go instead of cleansing all 5 totems throughout the match. Trust me.
The only way I'd nerf DH is to make it so you can't use it over Trapper traps because for real that isn't fair.
As for NOED I don't even I would even nerf it but if I did I would make it automatically curse all Survivors as soon as it's in play. This would retain its power with the haste effect and universal Exposed but would give survivors a better heads up to start looking for it or gtfo.
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If people think "Bait DH" is the same argument as "Do bones". They are....Not even CLOSE to the same perk. I don't like noed that much either but to compare the 2 arguments is just....Stupid.
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I believe noed could be better and more rewarding then the current version.
I believe that all exhaustion perks are unhealthy and rewards survivor for doing a single action (the only exception is head on and maybe balance landing)
For exhaustion perk they should have an requirement to be able to use it (and for andrenaline only one survivor should have the health state and the speed boost and make it you can't be exhausted like how the rest of the exhaustion perks works)
For noed here a perks concept I've made:
No one escape death
You are determined to please your master.
For every hook gain a token up to the maximum of 12 token
For every 3 token gain a affect:
- 3 token gain 100% more bloodpoint in the sacrifices category
- 6 token gain a 7% haste for 60 seconds after hooking a survivor
- 9 token survivors suffer from the exposed status affect for 30 second after hooking a survivor
- 12 token gain 100% bonus bloodpoints in all catagories
It should reward the killer for hooking survivors with the affect from the current perk with some tweaks since it won't be a hex anymore.
Post edited by zombitehdeath on0 -
Dear devs, I really hope you don't listen to this kind of completely absurd posts. This forum is apparently completely KILLER SIDE to dare to ask for a Dead Hard change omg. Imagine asking a change for Dead Hard xD! You're really forgetting that the Killer goes at a higher speed than the Survivor, and has the Bloodlust to catch up with the Survivor. Stop with this kind of posts sincerely... Dead Hard can be countered very easily, and has a reload time. You must be the same kind of person who asks for a change on Borrowed Time. Most people who use it don't even know how to use it properly. Against an experienced Killer, Dead Hard is mostly used for distance, to get to a location that you couldn't get to without it. The game is in very bad shape right now, this is not the time to come and pollute it with these kinds of requests.
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Noed is unhealthy. Was designed when killers were in a bad spot compared to now.
It's an overkill on soloQ players.
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And you seem to forget that a killers smart mindgame and effort could be erased buy the push of a button. I swear mains of both sides are ignorant to other opinions.
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I feel like noed has the old ruin undying problem. Most survivors didn't spend times doing bones because if its a high pressure killer you don't want to spend another gens worth of time doing bones. Noed even if it doesnt activate pretty much gives the killer free pressure as the survivors have to spend all that time on totems. This is coming from someone who uses counterforce/smallgame inner strength. DH for distance is just dumb and lacks counterplay full stop.
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BHVR: We heard you and we will make changes to Noed and Dead Hard.
We will nerf Noed to the ground first since its just a number change.
We will however work on ideas how to change Dead Hard in upcoming 2 to 3 years.
GG EZ
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i can see the issue with Victor, definitely.
though i am also someone who strongly believes Victor shouldnt be the main chase power of the Twins anyway, so in my perfect world, Victor too would be changed into being a much more supportive role during chases (step 1: he cant down people. step 2: give him some good buffs that make chasing them down as charlotte much easier)
regarding Wraith, yes a hit and run type of playstyle would certainly counter the Perk. But thats like equipping Balanced Landing and getting send to Shelter Woods or Lerys, it'd be a risk people would have to take into account when equipping the Perk.
as for the moonwalk, i really dont see that as an issue. the difference here is, that people were on a death timer with OG Legion, so the Killer never had to hit someone for them to go down. DH doesnt apply anything like that (plus the killer doesnt know when someone has it until they got to use it at least once), so the Killer would have to moonwalk the entire chase and somehow still manage to land two succesfull hits on the Survivor. Thats a pretty unrealistic thing to happen, i think.
in general the chase aspect of this game could take some changes. Sometimes, while looping the Killer, the game doesnt even count you as being inside a chase, which should definitely be looked at.
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many of the mori animations would need to be looked at in general for this idea (which is why i think its very unlikely to ever make it, sadly), as a vast majority of them require the Survivor to be in the dying state.
Killers like Trapper would need to have something included that downs the Survivor to get them into the original mori position (e.g. a kick, slash or, especially in Onis case, a punch).
regarding the length, i dont really think of it as much of an issue tbh.
The way i designed the Perk its gonna be rather rare to get many people with it in the first place, due to it consuming totems for each activation (meaing its quite easy for Survivors to limit the damage the Perk can do beforehand).
and dont forget, Survivors arent shown the Shape is killing someone with a tombstone until the mori animation is over and their profile changes into the "dead" skull. It would be the same with NOED in this case - they would know NOED is active (due to the Hex notification popping up the second the gates are powered (like Rancor)), but unless they are on comms with each other they wouldnt be able to tell that the Killer is currently murdering someone with it until the Killer is already back in the game.
also, this new NOED would be a GREAT selling point for custom mori animations in the shop (which would further address your issue, due to some probaply taking longer than others)!
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Dead Hard would be fine if they just remove the invincibility aspect. You simply have to use it at the right time to avoid the attack, just like every other dodge/dash move in every game ever made. Ffs Ocarina of Time did it right, but BHVR can't figure it out.
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Nope. As long as Bloodlust grants you this little bit extra distance to land a hit, DH stays at it is now. And no, I really hate this perk. I just get why it's there.
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Honestly sounds on point 🤣
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