Both Dead Hard and NOED need to be changed for their unhealthy design.
In this game there are many perks that are claimed as too OP or too weak. In my opinion the majority of focus should be on buffing bad perks survivor wise Distortion, Sole Survivor, and Premonition. Killer wise Dead Man's Switch, Predator and Monstrous Shrine. Yet, there are in my opinion only two perks in need of significant nerf or rework for being simply being a unhealthy design that awards the user for bad play and punishes the other side for playing good Dead Hard and NOED. And please keep the focus on these perks not other things. Here's why
1.DH rewards the user for playing poorly. Dead Hard what does it do? It allows you dash forward and avoid taking damage and you will be exhausted. So what does this mean it allows you to reach a window or pallets otherwise you wouldn't of made at the simple push of an E when the killer could've finally gotten you. As well, if you get out mind gamed by the killer you can simply push E to erase your error and get to safety. Instances where you cannot wait it out. And your hard work is erased.
2.NOED rewards the user for playing poorly. NOED what does it do? It grants you the ability to have every survivor exposed and grants you 4 percent haste. So what does this mean it means at the end of the game if all gens are completed or hatch shut you're granted such a powerful ability for doing nothing. The survivors could've been pushing hard all game with you keeping constant pressure finally fixing all the gens. And then all of a sudden all they worked hard for is eliminated by a single perk. The normal spot where a survivor could've taken a hit and reached a loop is eliminated by the killer having haste and instant downing you.
3.DH counter is nonexistent in many instances. In the open or an area far enough from a loop you can simply wait it out. Or body block the spot where they could make a vault or drop. And there are some perks toe help with this Mind breaker and Blood Echo(Weak perks though). And killers that can handle the upcoming circumstance better. Yet for distance to a pallet or window there is nothing you can do. And in a split distance from a mind game can also be ruined by this and an area where the game is on the line it can't be feasible to wait out or they make it to safety regardless. So the counter for DH depends on a certain situation.
4.NOED counter is nonexistent in many instances. If the game is going well and survivors are looping well and gens are at a count where you can finish all bones then NOED will never happen. And there are perks to help with this Small Game, Detective's Hunch, and Counterforce, additionally maps. Yet, if the killer is able to deliver enough pressure that forces you to focus on gens and unhooks with no time for bones unless you want to loose. You loose regardless because you focused on bones instead of gens. Or killer goes around with an instant down finishing your two hooked teammates and yourself. And this is Solo Q.
5.DH can be overwhelming or underwhelming with maps. This is more simple. Either you're on Shelter Woods and the E doesn't get you anywhere. Or on Badham where the E get you to a pallet or window every time. Should such a powerful ability that can win a whole game be up to fate?
6.NOED can be overwhelming or underwhelming with maps. This is more simple. Either you're on Autohaven where the power is easily destroyed. Or Midwich where the power lasts. Should such a powerful affect that can win a whole game be up to fate?
In my opinion both these perks contain such powerful abilities that with minimal to no effort largely up to luck. Award the use for poor play and punish the other side for skillful hard play. With often unreasonable counter play in many instances not a guarantee. And why these are the only perks in the game that need a significant changes for in the majority of instances being too much.
They're both second chance perks that plague this game.
Comments
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I want dead hard gone, so badly, and for noed i'll say it again like so many else did, do 5 bones instead of rushing gens, survivors can take the perk away, survivors can't take dead hard away but with 1-2 perks and very few killer add-ons
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I play 50/50 surv/killer. I don't think Dead Hard is OP. It's just like any other exhaustion perk like Lithe, balanced landing, etc...
NOED though i feel is very OP. A killer could get a couple hooks but no kills, but once all the generators are done, and he gets a 1 hit kill feels pretty cheap.
Maybe NOED should be changed so that it only activates if the killer hooks all 4 survivors at least once during the generator phase. Otherwise it doesn't activate.
I dunno; I only have 150 hours in the game, no where in red ranks.
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Do bones is just equivalent of just bait it out response
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but that's literally what they have to do, you take 16 seconds 5 times and no noed. they even have coutner force now so it's done even faster
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Dead Hard: Just bait it out!
NOED: Just do bones!
See the similarities?
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yeah do 6 gens to counter possible noed
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Survivor: No one left behind, Lightweight, Deja Vu, Dark sense, This is not happening, No mither, Tehnician, Stake out, Detective’s Hunch, Buckle up, Baby sitter and Off the Record maybe, Visionary. Those perks should be buffed but still doing almost the same thing, I really wish to see more diversified perk builds and not just few(bt,dh,ds, iron will,adrenaline, unbre etc)
Killer: Beast of prey, Teritorial Imperativr, Furative Chase, Cruel limits maybe, Insidious, Unrelenting, Zanashin Techs, Hangman’s trick, Deerstalker, Distressing, Death Bound, Spies from the shadow, Forced penance, thrill of the hunt.
And also the perks you said, and still more perks should be buffed/nerfed/reworked so almost all perks will be at the same “power”.
I feel like Identity V it’s a way more balanced game than dbd, I played that game like 1k hours, I got bored and then got dbd.
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if you are too lazy to do totems don't complain about noed if you rushed hardcore, and even if you didn't you still haven't done them, your mistake
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Do you have any idea how often Dead Hard doesn't work? Killers would lose their minds if DH actually worked as intended. Or maybe if BBQ failed as often as Dead Hard did and killers would get a 4k without a single stack. IMAGINE.
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off the record is fine. Just nerf iron will and people will start using it
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LOL
Take away a survivor perk but too bad, don't touch my killer perk. LOL again. There's no such thing as "gen rushing" - it's your job to stop survivors. Why should they be nice to you?
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Then I guess tunneling doesn't exist either.
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Poor latency and connection shouldn't be accounted when we can see what the final product looks like.
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So you think survivors should waste a MINIMUM of 90 seconds doing totems, but get mad because Dead Hard adds 10-15 seconds in a chase IF the survivor is already injured?
This of course doesn't include any time to FIND the totems - to which you say: Use 25% of your perk slots to help you find totems?
As a killer I would MUCH rather someone have DH than Sprint Burst or Lithe - both of which will give a survivor much more distance than DH and can easily help them not get hit in the first place.
I don't have a problem with NOED as a survivor, but never run it on my killers because I honestly think it is a waste - I would rather take perks that help me get kills before EGC.
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so why you complain about noed?
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Where did I say it was fine? Thanks for a suggestion out of no where in a post where I criticize both perks and list the reasons the change should happen. And Dead Hard can extend chases so much longer on so many maps with such strong loops like Badham or Asylum
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dead hard is used throughout the entire match
NOED is only active 5% of the match and half the time it never activates if they do all 5 bones.
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You do realize the power of that if?
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Did I @ or quote you? No???? OK then.
My post was commenting on those who make the usual inane comments when either DH or NOED comes up.
Neither perk needs changed IMO. They both have pros and cons. Killer mains want DH gone... Survivor mains want NOED gone. This discussion has been ongoing for years. Neither side looks objectively at the other and offers the same tired replies over and over. Just mains being mains on these forums...as usual. Again...for emphasis - I think both perks are fine and - I use neither of them. I would rather have a perk like Thanatophobia on killer and Lithe or Sprint Burst on survivor.
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you do realize that hex perks are suppose to in theory be seen as risk/reward threats not some useless perk that can get cleansed 30 seconds in the match
hex perks use to mean something but survivors just don't want to run anti-totem perks
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Please link me to all my posts complaining about NOED.
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I agree. ######### both of those perks. I've always hated NOED but I used to defend Dead Hard. Not anymore. That perk needs a complete redesign or a significantly longer exhaustion status or something. Maybe you need to earn each use somehow and they can't stack. Something needs to be done about both of them.
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My mistake. But, you literally said you as in calling out a singular person behind this post who sees everything written here.
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Imagine if like, the Apex Legend forums were full of people screaming that opponents killed them too fast and it's just not fair. I demand less bullets hitting me! My opponents must give me a handicap because I can't win without their help!
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But, all hexes minus NOED start at the beginning so you can have the time and chance to discover them and plan against accordingly.
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So just bait dead hard then lol don't be impatient
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why would a hex that is only active at the end of the game be lit at the start of the game?
What would be the point in having it then?
There would need to be a HUGE buff to compensate for that nerf
Furthermore why are survivors ignoring non-lit totems? That's 100% your fault.
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But NoED does not DO anything early, so why should it be VISIBLE early? Just so Survivors know to cleanse ASAP and ensure it never procs?
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Hex perks are a risk vs reward. Problem with NOED is that it activates when all the gens are done. So you either:
1) Cleanse all 5 dull totems during the gens phase, just incase the killer is running NOED. If he's not, then those wasted time looking and cleansing for 5 dulls totems would have been better used on gens, healing teammates, actually looking for lit hex totems in gen phase...
2) Finish all 5 gens, look to see if there is a hex totem anywhere in the map. Again, asking to do this is preposterous.
You can't really make the argument that NOED doesn't activate for the majority of the match because once all the gens are done, there are only 2 routes the survivors can go and in the meantime everyone is exposed.
Now I do have an issue with the placement of Totems in the map, I think they should be more better hidden but that's for a diff. discussion.
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yeah i can get behind that.
what would you say about these ideas:
1) Dead Hard
when active, press the active ability button to make a dash forward, avoiding any incomming damage (stays the same as right now)
uppon activation, Dead Hard causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds and deactivates itself again (also stays the same)
Dead Hard activates after being in a chase with the Killer for X/Y/Z seconds without taking damage.
essentially, i keep DHs effect the same, but with an actual activation requirement.
This ensures that those who like the Perk dont feel like it was robbed from them, but it also means it no longer is a free second chance perk, but actually requires some work on the survivors side to get active.
It essentially shifted from being a get out of jail for free card to a reward for Survivors doing well against the Killer.
also, you no longer need to be injured for it to work, so thats something. still, Killers would have a lot more control over when someone DHs and when not. taking chases they shouldnt leads to you being punished / the survivor being rewarded.
2) Hex: No One Escapes Death
when the last generator gets repaired, Hex: No One Escapes Death activates (a change in the activation requirement so it no longer triggers uppon hatch being closed)
uppon activation, turn all remaining Dull Totems on the map into Hex: No One Escapes Death totems. If no Dull Totems are available or when the Perk doesnt have enough Hex Totems left for it to take effect, the Perk deactivates. (only important for Tier 1 and 2)
when active, the Killer gains the ability to kill Healthy, Injured and Dying Survivors. Doing so will result in the immediate destruction of 3/2/1 Hex: No One Escapes Death Totems.
now, NOED received a whole rework from me, so let me quickly explain:
first of all, it no longer triggers the Exposed status effect or a speed bonus effect. This means the Killer doesnt just get an easy anti loop tool and cant just immediately slug all 4 Survivors.
instead, i turned it into a tombstone for every Killer. mechanic wise it would work the same, allowing any Killer who is close enough to a Survivor to instantly mori them. This means the Killer can no longer use NOED to bait others back into the trial to go for that juicy unhook, as it eliminates the Survivor immediately. In addition to that, the Killer has to sit through the entire mori animation, allowing anyone else close by to make a run for it.
and to top it all off, i made NOEDs strength entirely reliant on the amount of remaining Dull Totems. teams who ignored totems all game will get hit by a very strong NOED, while teams who cleansed totems will have an significantly weaker NOED (in the 4v1 aspect), so its strength is 100% in the Survivors hands.
EDIT: had a typo in the NOED section. my bad
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NOED only exists to destroy solo queue, it needs to be changed.
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I'm game
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To not screw over survivors it shouldn't reward killers for playing poorly. Like how DH screws over killers when survivors play poorly. Both are second chance perks.
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You don't seem to get, or maybe don't care, that NoED would be 100% useless if it lit up at the start of a match.
It only works at the end of a match, so it only lights up at the end of a match. This is called 'balance'; that pesky thing that keeps Survivors from having an 'I win' button, no matter how hard they ask for one.
Survivors CAN counter NoED early by cleansing all totems, but the 'balance' (There's that word again!) to that is the additional time spent getting every totem.
This is balanced. It's not unfair. It's no OP. It's not 'unhealthy' or whatever smoke screen Survivors will invent next week to hide the nerfs they want. It. Is. Balanced.
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NOED should be altered into a different endgame perk that gains strength from the killer performing well earlier. This way the killer is rewarded for playing well. To prevent moments where he is rewarded despite playing poorly in the early game. And not the chance to be an easy second chance perk. Like NOED and DH currently are designed as. And please stop saying I have no concept of balance.
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But if a Killer is playing well, they DO NOT NEED an endgame perk. You're basically invalidating NoED by making it's requirement be the fact that it's not needed.
The point of NoED is a comeback mechanic. The fact that you think it's 'unhealthy' to give the Killer a comeback mechanic shows you just want to nerf the Killer. You're basically saying 'It's unfair that the Killer can get a comback mechanic. A mechanic I CAN TURN OFF AHEAD OF TIME, but I don't wanna!'
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NOED is a Second Chance perk. If the killer fails to finish his objective and gets outperformed he can have a perk to cover his mistake. It's the same as DH where your mistake for playing poorly can be erased. A killer shouldn't have a perk that can erase his mistake like how DH can erase a survivors mistake. But by your beliefs survivors can't have a second chance perk, but killers should because everything is against them and need things like Ruin base kit. Fun fact this game isn't grossly unbalanced like you make it seem.
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So if we are talking about changing Dead Hard and NOED then I have an idea of how to change the two.
Dead Hard
An Activate-able Perk. You start the trial off 3 token
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid an attack
Press the activate ability button while running in order to consume a token and dash forward.
Dead Hard cause the exhaustion status effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
After all the tokens are consumed you permanently suffer from the exhaustion status effect.
Hex No One Escape Death
A Hex rooting its power on hope.
You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.
Once the exit gates are powered and at least 1 dull totem remaining in the trial grounds, Hex: No One Escape Death activates and transfers to a dull totem for 60 seconds and an additional 5/10/15 seconds for every other totem remaining in the trial.
During this time Survivors suffers from the exposed status effect
The hex deactivates when this totem is cleansed.
The timer starts when you put a survivor in the dying state.
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Unless you're the one hit by noed. A person is hooked near noed. Killer patrolling noed. This is a horrible plan.
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I don't use NOED but a survivor will always have access to dead hard, but a killer won't always have access to NOED because of either not needing it, or keys ending the match early, or what have you.
Just make NOED expose survivors from the very beginning to make up for this discrepancy imho
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I'm fine with both. I don't see the sudden issue with dh people are now having. it still rarely works when used as intended. For distance it can get screwed by lag and when not gives the least amount of distance out of any exhaustion perks. I'd much rather DH then a well timed SB...
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The difference is in high level play.
"Just do bones" is actually a counter to Noed.
"Just bait it out" is not a counter to dead hard. Because good players don't use dead hard to dodge an attack, they dead hard for "distance". This is where they go around a loop and just as they are about to get hit due to the distance, they round the corner, and dead hard "for distance" to the pallet or window that they otherwise would not make it do. Dead harding for distance has no counter. You can't bait it, you can't do anything, you just watch them use it and get to the window or pallet before you can do anything about it.
"Just do bones" is actually true, you can completely eliminate Noed from the game by just doing bones.
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BTW NOED gets activated when all the gens are done, not when the hatch is closed.
I do like the idea of turning all remaining Dull totems to hex NOED. This gives the survivors a risk/reward; should they cleanse the dull totem, or just work on the gen.
I could get behind the mori idea, but I don't think a whole revamp is necessary. NOED should show an exposed status for all survivors if its active (i'm not sure if it does currently), and I also don't think NOED needs a speed buff.
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That's not unlucky. That would be incompetence. You saw the totem and ignored it. You'd be getting what you deserved...
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so then 99 the gens and do the last totem.
I mean how hard is swf to play?
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Getting hit by the killer is not playing poorly. Not sure where this concept ever started. Survivors can run a killer for quite some time before getting hit - getting hit does not mean you played poorly.
Not healing yourself is not playing poorly - especially if there is only one or two gens to complete.
Running to a hook to save someone from dying while you are injured is not playing poorly - it is a risk reward decision a survivor has to make.
Stop saying injured survivors are playing poorly. That's like saying if a killer EVER misses an attack they played poorly.
If every survivor played "good" according to people who say DH is a reward for playing poorly - then you would get ZERO kills because you would never injure anyone. That's just nonsensical.
I personally never run DH because I think it is one of the worst exhaustion perks in game. I have way more success running Lithe or Sprint Burst than I do DH. As a killer I LOVE when survivors have DH - way easier to counter that than an attentive survivor with SB/Lithe.
This is the last comment I am ever making on any threads which discuss either of these perks - since every thing that can be said - has been said ad nauseum. Neither perk should change imo - they are both crappy perks to use and waste a perk slot for a perk that can help a player out way more.
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Remaining injured is not screwing over the killer often times it's the smart decision. What is screwing them over is while in a chase the killer preforms a great mind game that gets the survivor. That survivor has the ability to push a button to erase getting out played and make it to safety.
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Who runs DH anyway. Better hold W ( θvθ)
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Same argument for baiting DH out. Just bait it out 4head.
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I never said the game is broken. You're the one saying the game is 'unhealthy' because of NoED and DH.
And the point of perks is to:
- Support your play style
- Shore up weaknesses in your play style
- Or give you a chance when you make a mistake.
You not liking second chance perks does not make them broken or, as you put in your excuse, 'unhealthy'.
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