How To Fix Doding and Last Second Swap
Two of this game's biggest issues that remains as a general QoL issue are the problems of lobby dodging and last second switching. For those who do not know the term, dodging is what a Killer, or a Survivor using a program to detect the Killer's IP, does in order to pick and choose their matches. Of course, one of the main reasons for dodging is SWF groups and personally I understand because of balance reasons, but that is a separate issue. For now, we will be talking about Killers that seemingly only dodge for items and cosmetics like prestige and Legacy.
To address both of these issues in a single update, all that needs to happen is make the lobby have 2 stages.
In Stage 1, both Survivors and Killers are allowed to pick their gear as usual. Technically Survivors should have their gear already set before joining, but coordination with teammates on items is also an intended aspect, so giving you 30 seconds to adjust your build should be enough. Once 30 seconds have passed, the Survivors are locked in and CAN NO LONER SWITCH ITEMS CHARACTERS NOR LEAVE THE MATCH. Leaving the lobby in this event will result in a 15 minute penalty that exponentially increases.
In Stage 2, the Killer is allowed to continue picking his build in response to the Survivors' builds, but also CAN NO LONGER LEAVE THE MATCH. The Killer will be penalised the same way Survivors are if he dodges after 30 seconds. The reason for this is because, like Survivors coordinating builds, the Killer having the ability to counter the Survivors' builds is also an intended feature, one that last second switching exploits.
Aside from SWF, neither side would have a reason to dodge and this would make getting matches quicker and a much more surefire deal, rather than just hoping your Killer or Survivors stay or don't try to last second swap you. Add in a SWF Indicator or something for the Killer (as well as looking into actually balancing them) and this would rectify these QoL issues.
Please discuss.
Comments
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The user and all related content has been deleted.3
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@hopeless_vengeance said:
No. #rektCare to actually give an argument rather than just be a silly bridge goblin?
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The user and all related content has been deleted.1
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@hopeless_vengeance said:
weirdkid5 said:@hopeless_vengeance said:
No. #rekt
Care to actually give an argument rather than just be a silly bridge goblin?
SWF.
I guess you missed the part that mentioned we will be disregarding SWF for the intentions of this post. Try reading the entire thing, including the last paragraph.
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Please don't write in purple, I get a headache trying to read that.
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@weirdkid5 said:
Two of this game's biggest issues that remains as a general QoL issue are the problems of lobby dodging and last second switching. For those who do not know the term, dodging is what a Killer, or a Survivor using a program to detect the Killer's IP, does in order to pick and choose their matches. Of course, one of the main reasons for dodging is SWF groups and personally I understand because of balance reasons, but that is a separate issue. For now, we will be talking about Killers that seemingly only dodge for items and cosmetics like prestige and Legacy.To address both of these issues in a single update, all that needs to happen is make the lobby have 2 stages.
In Stage 1, both Survivors and Killers are allowed to pick their gear as usual. Technically Survivors should have their gear already set before joining, but coordination with teammates on items is also an intended aspect, so giving you 30 seconds to adjust your build should be enough. Once 30 seconds have passed, the Survivors are locked in and CAN NO LONER SWITCH ITEMS CHARACTERS NOR LEAVE THE MATCH. Leaving the lobby in this event will result in a 15 minute penalty that exponentially increases.
In Stage 2, the Killer is allowed to continue picking his build in response to the Survivors' builds, but also CAN NO LONGER LEAVE THE MATCH. The Killer will be penalised the same way Survivors are if he dodges after 30 seconds. The reason for this is because, like Survivors coordinating builds, the Killer having the ability to counter the Survivors' builds is also an intended feature, one that last second switching exploits.
Aside from SWF, neither side would have a reason to dodge and this would make getting matches quicker and a much more surefire deal, rather than just hoping your Killer or Survivors stay or don't try to last second swap you. Add in a SWF Indicator or something for the Killer (as well as looking into actually balancing them) and this would rectify these QoL issues.
Please discuss.
As long as I get a SWF indicator in the first 30 seconds, i am good to go with that.^^
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I think a tiered ready up process is a step in the right direction.It doesn't solve dodging necessarily (because a lot of killers leave within the first few seconds for various reasons beyond ping), but it will solve baitnswitches.0
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@hopeless_vengeance said:
No. #rektGuys like you are the reason why we need a downvote button such that you can simply press it instead of spamming in the comments
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Yeah I guess that would be fun to test out. But I just want to be able to talk to the survivors in the lobby as a killer. I think it would be hilarious
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@DocOctober said:
Please don't write in purple, I get a headache trying to read that.Agreed, a few lines I would have read but that is too much of a purple wall
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Personally, I think they should remove the lobby all together.
You set up your build before searching for a game, then once it finds people you start the game.
No dodging
No last minute changes
Fair to both sides3 -
Adding an SWF indicator will make it impossible to get games for SWF groups.Realistically, it's not going to happen.1
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@DocOctober said:
Please don't write in purple, I get a headache trying to read that.Ok I fixed it for you lol you and @Master are the first to say anything about it.
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I would be all for @weirdkid5 suggestion but only after the game is balanced with SWF in mind. Once the killers are buffed to stand a chance against the SWF there will be no reason to dodge a lobby besides bad ping.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Wolf74Adding an SWF indicator will make it impossible to get games for SWF groups.
Realistically, it's not going to happen.
A killer who wants to dodge SWF simply dodges every survivor team who joins in the same time frame. This can also hurt solo players who happen to accidently join at the same time because they are so long in queue already.
The killer doesnt care because he will find a game anyway, there are enoguh survivors out there.A SWF button would actually benefit the soloplayers, sure it might hurt some SWF because they would only face tryhard killers who prepare for them^^
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@Master said:
@Visionmaker said:
@Wolf74Adding an SWF indicator will make it impossible to get games for SWF groups.
Realistically, it's not going to happen.
A killer who wants to dodge SWF simply dodges every survivor team who joins in the same time frame. This can also hurt solo players who happen to accidently join at the same time because they are so long in queue already.
The killer doesnt care because he will find a game anyway, there are enoguh survivors out there.A SWF button would actually benefit the soloplayers, sure it might hurt some SWF because they would only face tryhard killers who prepare for them^^
I would much rather play with 3 other solos than a game with 3 premades. I'm a Survivor main, being paired up with a team makes my game easier and I dislike that.
Or it'll make it super annoying and they'll farm me. Hard to tell which will happen.
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Master said:A killer who wants to dodge SWF simply dodges every survivor team who joins in the same time frame. This can also hurt solo players who happen to accidently join at the same time because they are so long in queue already.
The killer doesnt care because he will find a game anyway, there are enoguh survivors out there.
A SWF button would actually benefit the soloplayers, sure it might hurt some SWF because they would only face tryhard killers who prepare for them^^
Exactly. A 30s timer won't solve that. Most dodging lobbies are over in 10s. Some people dodge players with lots of hours or private profiles. Or are in Prestige clothing, having too many items, etc.It would hurt large SWF the most. Given that most people play in SWF, I doubt it'd be healthy for the game without dodging penalties.@weirdkid5 Yep, there needs to be tailored mechanics to prevent gameplay sabotage. But making SWF second class citizens is not going to be a viable suggestion.0 -
@Visionmaker said:
Master said:A killer who wants to dodge SWF simply dodges every survivor team who joins in the same time frame. This can also hurt solo players who happen to accidently join at the same time because they are so long in queue already.
The killer doesnt care because he will find a game anyway, there are enoguh survivors out there.A SWF button would actually benefit the soloplayers, sure it might hurt some SWF because they would only face tryhard killers who prepare for them^^
Exactly. A 30s timer won't solve that. Most dodging lobbies are over in 10s. Some people dodge players with lots of hours or private profiles. Or are in Prestige clothing, having too many items, etc.
It would hurt large SWF the most. Given that most people play in SWF, I doubt it'd be healthy for the game without dodging penalties.
Perhaps if the game were balanced around SWF or if there was a separate mode then the issue would be fixed.
But if adjusting SWF means killing the game, imo, it isnt worth living.
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@weirdkid5 said:
Perhaps if the game were balanced around SWF or if there was a separate mode then the issue would be fixed.But if adjusting SWF means killing the game, imo, it isnt worth living.
The wait continues.
But they can still improve the matchmaking and lobby systems before any of that regardless. Uh... I hope.
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@weirdkid5 said:
@Master said:
@Visionmaker said:
@Wolf74Adding an SWF indicator will make it impossible to get games for SWF groups.
Realistically, it's not going to happen.
A killer who wants to dodge SWF simply dodges every survivor team who joins in the same time frame. This can also hurt solo players who happen to accidently join at the same time because they are so long in queue already.
The killer doesnt care because he will find a game anyway, there are enoguh survivors out there.A SWF button would actually benefit the soloplayers, sure it might hurt some SWF because they would only face tryhard killers who prepare for them^^
I would much rather play with 3 other solos than a game with 3 premades. I'm a Survivor main, being paired up with a team makes my game easier and I dislike that.
Or it'll make it super annoying and they'll farm me. Hard to tell which will happen.
Usually when I have to play with a 3man SWF it ends that the 3 discord idiots just loop around the killer the whole game and save each other with their lightsabres.
I legit had a game where I had to do 4.5 gens because they didnt do anything. I rlly hate such games0 -
@Master said:
Usually when I have to play with a 3man SWF it ends that the 3 discord idiots just loop around the killer the whole game and save each other with their lightsabres.
I legit had a game where I had to do 4.5 gens because they didnt do anything. I rlly hate such gamesWhile I have had these games too, I am really kind of annoyed by the similar line of thought ''When I play SWF we are mostly just chatting not some coordinated try hard super team''
When I SWF yes it's mostly just banter but obviously the most important information comes out in the first 20 seconds.
1- What killer
2- Location
3- Does he have ruin (not a big deal but why not share info)Don't diminish that information thats a lot to know straight away.
Then from there its'
- Killer is on me, do gens.
- Killer is still on me do gens
- Okay ill distract killer get the save or Killer is over here go for save
- There is a gen at X location if anyone is looking for one
- Last Gen almost done, go to the doors.
Is that super coordinated? Not really but ######### that's easily 90% of the game done and communicated.
So yeah SWF just because you don't imagine it being a team in a soundproof booth shouting constantly to each other doesn't mean you aren't communicating a massive amount of information to each other.
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Well maybe if they seperate Solo queue from SWF queue and add an option for killers to choose what they want to face.. but that would break the game xD
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I know that you have good intentions and on the surface, this definitely does look like it would work. But survivors would still just switch at the last second of their first 30 seconds. Now the only problem we "fixed" is dodging, but I would bet that people who are willing to dodge 10 different lobbies in a row are still willing to wait 15 minutes. Another issue is that this will punish people trying to check profiles. I ususally check all 4 survivor profiles as survivor and Killer, so that I know if I am facing someone I have blocked because of an exploit and/or cheat. This usually takes more than 30 seconds, just because Steam is slow.
In the long run, I think that what should really happen is to just make the game more balanced, items and add-ons included, keeping the lobby at 60 seconds, and also implement a system to block users in-game, or just keep track in-game of who is blocked on Steam. Then, with 0 reason to dodge at all, implement the 15 minute or whatever time penalty for dodging.
However, i do realize that we are far from balance. So here is an idea for a band-aid patch until then -
Everyone can still change loadouts, and everyone can still check profiles. However, the only difference is that item types cannot be changed for survivors. This means if you come in with a yellow toolbox equipped, then you can still change to any other toolbox, and change add-ons, but you cannot change to a key, medkit, flashlight, etc.. For survivors entering the lobby with no items, they can only change in the first 30 seconds. If the Killer leaves in this time, then the survivor will be blocked for joining a lobby for 10 seconds, and the Killer for 5. This sounds very stupid, of course, but I think it would stop the possibility of survivors trying to snipe a specific Killer's IP just to give them a hard time. They will still be stuck with a waiting time while the Killer searches for different people. It also just makes it harder for the Killer to accidentally get the same survivors. If the survivor leaves in this time, then they get a short penalty, or maybe none at all. This is so that if perhaps survivors are just sniping IP to make sure they don't play against an exploiting/cheating Killer, they can do so with little to no repercussions.
EDIT: After rereading OP a few more times, I see that I may have misread it when making this original comment. I will still leave the original comment for feedback on my suggestions, but I do think that OP actually does fix it a good amount of the problems with lobbies. However, I would suggest making the lobby 2 minutes, and 60 second time frames for each things, for the same reasons mentioned in my original comment.0 -
They got to do something for console at least to get players to start playing killer. It's in a really bad spot. Look at the % of players and the achievements. Kill 15 survivors is 7% of players, you then go look at survivor and 29% of people have done the Kobe escape achievement. I wonder if it would be something as small as a double blood point weekend for killers only, maybe just something to get people to play enough games to the point where they might play killer more often.
https://www.exophase.com/game/dead-by-daylight-psn/trophies/
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@Shipthebread overall trophies/achievements are just a bad way to view stats, because there are a lot of people who buy the game and never play it, or buy multiple copies for whatever reason. I do understand your point though, and it is the exact same here on PC. The problem isn't the system, it is that Killer in general is just not fun to play anymore.
EDIT: Also, the "kill 15 survivors" trophy is a secret one, and it refers to using a mori, not a sacrifice. Even a Killer main would need to play at least 100 hours of just Killer and leveling only Killer to have that many moris, plus all the games where they get wasted due to exploiters and/or cheaters. I don't think they Kobe achievement is secret(is it?), and even if it was, it didn't take me 100 hours of playing survivor to get that one.1 -
@RagingCalm said:
@Shipthebread overall trophies/achievements are just a bad way to view stats, because there are a lot of people who buy the game and never play it, or buy multiple copies for whatever reason. I do understand your point though, and it is the exact same here on PC. The problem isn't the system, it is that Killer in general is just not fun to play anymore.Thanks for the info in terms of judging based on trophies.
I know killer isn't fun to play, I just wonder if there is something of a bandaid that can be done to move some people who are the fence about killer over to playing it more. Would it be more shards per game?
With the introduction of the new store, it will get some people coming back and grinding more for sure but at the game's current state on PS4 if it takes me ~20-30 minutes to get a game at night how many people are just going to abandon, the grind is going to be hella real for survivors.
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@Shipthebread HOLY #########!!! 30 minutes? I didn't think it could possibly be that bad! Well, while an in-game currency incentive may work for some people, it would not fix the game's core mechanics. Maybe extra shards and bp could be a band-aid until real balance is worked out to make Killer fun to play again, though. Certainly on PS4 and Xbox it would work, but I am afraid on PC it would do as much good, as several people on PC including myself are already nearly "finished" with the game, at least in terms of progression. I already have every single Killer prestige 3, and am very close to getting every single perk on all of them(only about 4 Killers to go). My survivors also have all the teachables unlocked, and my main survivor Tapp has quite a lot of perks, prestige 3. So basically, PC needs a bit more of an incentive than just bloodpoints.
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@RagingCalm said:
@Shipthebread HOLY #########!!! 30 minutes? I didn't think it could possibly be that bad! Well, while an in-game currency incentive may work for some people, it would not fix the game's core mechanics. Maybe extra shards and bp could be a band-aid until real balance is worked out to make Killer fun to play again, though. Certainly on PS4 and Xbox it would work, but I am afraid on PC it would do as much good, as several people on PC including myself are already nearly "finished" with the game, at least in terms of progression. I already have every single Killer prestige 3, and am very close to getting every single perk on all of them(only about 4 Killers to go). My survivors also have all the teachables unlocked, and my main survivor Tapp has quite a lot of perks, prestige 3. So basically, PC needs a bit more of an incentive than just bloodpoints.30 minutes easily. Just to get a lobby, then if you get dogged rinse and repeat. That is if you are in a SWF solo is not bad at all. Couple of nights ago was playing with a friend who tried to stream, we got 2 games in an hour and 1 a person in our party got dropped. Needless to say he couldn't stream because what viewer is going to watch that.
Yeah, bloodpoints is meh as a reward, shards is the way to go. I understand they just bought the rights back and now they want to make money so the in game currency balance is delicate, but what's far worse is losing all your killers.
Just go look at DBD streams, it's littered with Survivors now. Even some of the known killer mains are playing more and more survivor for various reasons. Doesn't look good ATM
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@Shipthebread Only 2.6% of Steam players have "Blood on your face", as compared to 7.53% for PSN.
Also
Rank 1 Killer = 1.6%
Rank 1 Survivor = 2.9%.Rank 10 Killer = 3.7%
Rank 10 Survivor = 6.1%The distribution probably isn't as bad as you think it is.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Shipthebread Only 2.6% of Steam players have "Blood on your face", as compared to 7.53% for PSN.Also
Rank 1 Killer = 1.6%
Rank 1 Survivor = 2.9%.Rank 10 Killer = 3.7%
Rank 10 Survivor = 6.1%The distribution probably isn't as bad as you think it is.
Thanks, but that's Steam or PS4? Where are you getting that?
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Figured it was Steam, wonder what it is on Console. Thanks for the help tho
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You must consider when you look at trophy percentages, it counts for all the people that have also played the game during free weekend. I think Steam DbD alone has had a few million players total, but the concurrent population is always around 10k
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@weirdkid5 yes. I basically am just making this comment to say, I love that you stopped writing in that purple. It burned my eyes!
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@RagingCalm said:
@weirdkid5 yes. I basically am just making this comment to say, I love that you stopped writing in that purple. It burned my eyes!Some people write in bright blue. Kills my eyes on mobile.
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@Visionmaker Who is it? I haven't seen anyone writing in bright blue here...
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@RagingCalm said:
@Visionmaker Who is it? I haven't seen anyone writing in bright blue here...This deadly blue!!
This blue is bad too.
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@Visionmaker said:
@RagingCalm said:
@Visionmaker Who is it? I haven't seen anyone writing in bright blue here...This deadly blue!!
I dont know what shade of purple to use now. I tried to pick one that was bright enough but honestly my secondary color is pretty much the shade of blue you just posted in lmao
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weirdkid5 said:
@Visionmaker said:
@RagingCalm said:
@Visionmaker Who is it? I haven't seen anyone writing in bright blue here...This deadly blue!!
I dont know what shade of purple to use now. I tried to pick one that was bright enough but honestly my secondary color is pretty much the shade of blue you just posted in lmao
Here's what it looks like... : (
Wow this image is HuuUuUge in desktop mode.0 -
@Visionmaker said:
weirdkid5 said:@Visionmaker said:
@RagingCalm said:
@Visionmaker Who is it? I haven't seen anyone writing in bright blue here...
This deadly blue!!
I dont know what shade of purple to use now. I tried to pick one that was bright enough but honestly my secondary color is pretty much the shade of blue you just posted in lmao
Here's what it looks like... : (
Wow this image is HuuUuUge in desktop mode.
I suppose it really depends on if one is using mobile or desktop version. Gotta find a color that works for both.
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@Visionmaker damn... I didn't realize blue was that damaging in mobile. I'll just write in this until mobile gets a dark mode, then(soon).
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Off topic, but I can't believe some butthurt individual flagged my remark for OP to not write in purple as "abuse".
How is that being abusive? I did legitimate get a headache trying to read the purple wall of text against the forum's colour scheme and so did someone else.
I didn't pressure OP, I didn't threaten him, nothing. I guess it's another example of why the devs closed the report form, too many false accusations.0 -
@DocOctober said:
Off topic, but I can't believe some butthurt individual flagged my remark for OP to not write in purple as "abuse".How is that being abusive? I did legitimate get a headache trying to read the purple wall of text against the forum's colour scheme and so did someone else.
I didn't pressure OP, I didn't threaten him, nothing. I guess it's another example of why the devs closed the report form, too many false accusations.
Wow they flagged you for abuse?
Oh no you asked me to not post in purple. My feelings are so hurt Doc you evil bastard.
Forward slash essss
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Yup, they did.weirdkid5 said:@DocOctober said:
Off topic, but I can't believe some butthurt individual flagged my remark for OP to not write in purple as "abuse".How is that being abusive? I did legitimate get a headache trying to read the purple wall of text against the forum's colour scheme and so did someone else.
I didn't pressure OP, I didn't threaten him, nothing. I guess it's another example of why the devs closed the report form, too many false accusations.
Wow they flagged you for abuse?
Oh no you asked me to not post in purple. My feelings are so hurt Doc you evil bastard.
Forward slash essss
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If the killer get's penalized after the lockin, all it does is switch the last-minute swap out to the 30 second mark. Nothing really changes IMO other than being able to prepare the right perks.
Step in the right direction, but I can't get behind it. IN the state this game is currently in, the host should have the option to bow out for a few seconds after the items are locked in.
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