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Dear BHVR; Listen to your audience.

Gilly
Gilly Member Posts: 10
in General Discussions

I don't hear anybody, on reddit, this thread or my discord, who is happy that you're only offering 3 cosmetic parts after hyping up this event for weeks. I don't think anyone is happy with the amount of grinding you say will be required for each part, and I don't think anyone is happy that you're betraying their expectations-- 'You'll be able to get all sorts of new skins!'

What you've released is disappointing, and I signed up for this forum to express my opinion on the matter. If you promise us new cosmetics that we can earn through play, and then you yank the carpet out from under our feet and laugh at us for expecting the opportunity to get interesting new outfits, you erode our trust in your developers as an institution. Trust is not easy to earn back when you've lost it.

A lot of players have mixed feelings about the price of all the goods in the store-- it's more than excessive, especially compared to the amount of wages an average person earns. If I wanted to buy everything in the store available with auric cells, I'd have to pay more than it cost to build my gaming PC. I understand you need to eat, and you need revenue. But so do we, and when there's no opportunity to get cosmetics through play, in bundles, and even events backfire on us and cost more money, it just looks like you want to bleed us dry.

You have trust. Trust is a finite resource that takes months to earn. Don't squander it for short term profits. You would have had plenty of players who didn't manage to grind the event cosmetics within two weeks if you had made all the cosmetics available to everyone, and you would have still earned money. Now, I'm unlikely to ever pay to finish off my collections because you've betrayed me hard and I can't trust you to make good events either. You have two weeks to regain that trust and backtrack on your decision. I hope you make the right choice.

Comments

  • Chi
    Chi Member Posts: 780
    Gilly said:

    The cosmetics cost 10$ each. That's two hours of work for me, with taxes accounted for. I can't use this money on food, on phone bills, on internet, on other games or on rent. I have bought every DLC and I actually think the packs like Bloodstained Sack had a 'fair' value to them-- 3$ for 8 cosmetic items that are actually nice to look at? I feel like .20 is definitely fair for a cosmetic. 3$ per cosmetic part, 10$ for a whole outfit? It's really not fair.

    Yeah, this is the reason why I stopped buying cosmetics. Way too expensive for the little amount you get.
  • Dwight_Confusion
    Dwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,650

    I'm cool with grinding for pieces. I'm fine with that.

    I'm just really bummed out that 1/7 aka

    3/21 pieces are open to get... and that the grind will take me 2-3 days (short, would rather have like a really tough challenge and grind longer for higher rewards or more cosmetics.)

    Sucks.

  • FayeZahara
    FayeZahara Member Posts: 965
    These comments provide no feedback and never take your points into consideration. They just rinse and repeat same phrases in response to anyone against the auric cell paywall.
    "There just cosmetics that have to have no value, your expecting stuff to be free, you can earn the dlc because of this, and your entitled jerk so ######### for talking."
    Feels that they don't want dbd to make more sales with reasonable pricing options.
  • Rex_Huin
    Rex_Huin Member Posts: 1,208

    I'm happy that the grind for the outfit is a short one. 3 pieces is fine great super. More interested in the extra bloodpoints which carries on for 2 weeks. No complaints!

  • HP150
    HP150 Member Posts: 455
    edited October 2018

    @Gilly said:
    I don't hear anybody, on reddit, this thread or my discord, who is happy that you're only offering 3 cosmetic parts after hyping up this event for weeks.

    You're actually blind then. Stop whining about receiving free #########.
    Or better yet go whine to the devs of League of Legends or Fortnite (or any other dev that offers optional, non-gameplay impacting, holiday cosmetics for purchase) about the lack of free cosmetic skins they give out for holidays. See how that pans out for you.

    @Gilly said:
    Now, I'm unlikely to ever pay to finish off my collections because you've betrayed me hard and I can't trust you to make good events either. You have two weeks to regain that trust and backtrack on your decision. I hope you make the right choice.

    Uh oh. The guy complaining about not receiving all of the cosmetics for free is giving you a timeline and ultimatum of not buying the skins that he wasn't going to purchase anyways if you don't fix his issue!

  • MrZapp
    MrZapp Member Posts: 102

    Gotta admit, I'm kinda on the fence with this one. I'm all for the items being more exclusive since it makes them more interesting and gives your favorites something extra. I don't get why they'll be available to buy since it defeats the purpose but \0/. The events not too bad all things considered but the devs set themselves up to fail from both sides

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270
    Has the Western world sunk into communism while I wasn't watching?
    You guys don't need those items. They are cosmetic. Hence the name "cosmetics". You can grind a full set of them for free too. You'd want the whole stuff? You understand that the developer team has to be paid for all the work they do to keep the game fresh, but you still want everything just handed to you?

    Why not petition for limitless access to free beer while you're at it?
  • SanKa_Games
    SanKa_Games Member Posts: 201
    edited October 2018

    @Gilly said:
    The cosmetics cost 10$ each. That's two hours of work for me, with taxes accounted for. I can't use this money on food, on phone bills, on internet, on other games or on rent. I have bought every DLC and I actually think the packs like Bloodstained Sack had a 'fair' value to them-- 3$ for 8 cosmetic items that are actually nice to look at? I feel like .20 is definitely fair for a cosmetic. 3$ per cosmetic part, 10$ for a whole outfit? It's really not fair.

    Not to mention that two outfits cost like a base game...

  • AnotherRandy
    AnotherRandy Member Posts: 274
    edited October 2018
    George_Soros said:
    Has the Western world sunk into communism while I wasn't watching?
    You guys don't need those items. They are cosmetic. Hence the name "cosmetics". You can grind a full set of them for free too. You'd want the whole stuff? You understand that the developer team has to be paid for all the work they do to keep the game fresh, but you still want everything just handed to you?

    Why not petition for limitless access to free beer while you're at it?
    It's not about getting all for free at the first place. It's
    1) the insane pricing and
    2) the lack of exclusiveness.
    Both combined into an event is for most veterans confusing right now, cuz we expected something different from the devs since we followed how they developed over the years.
    You need to understand the other perspective and not only yours 
  • MojoTheFabulous
    MojoTheFabulous Member Posts: 2,015

    I don't see why we shouldn't be able to grind for them all seeing as we'd only have a limited time to do so and it's not like the skins are going anywhere as they will always be on sale. So it's not like they'd be unable to make any money from them.

    It's like that time the Fog Travelers sets were temporarily available for Shards. You could grind for them all (in theory) before they went back to being AC only.

  • Snapshot
    Snapshot Member Posts: 914

    Of course this was a purely strategic desicion to make more profit.

    • If they really wanted the outfits to be 'rare', they would allow only to get one for free (as it is right now) and then, after the event, completely remove them from the store.
    • If they don't care about rarity, allow everyone to get all of them for free during the event by grinding and after the event, continue selling them in the store.

    As it is right now, we have the bad of both worlds. And they know it. That's why they did it.

    @SanKa_Games said:

    @Gilly said:
    The cosmetics cost 10$ each. That's two hours of work for me, with taxes accounted for. I can't use this money on food, on phone bills, on internet, on other games or on rent. I have bought every DLC and I actually think the packs like Bloodstained Sack had a 'fair' value to them-- 3$ for 8 cosmetic items that are actually nice to look at? I feel like .20 is definitely fair for a cosmetic. 3$ per cosmetic part, 10$ for a whole outfit? It's really not fair.

    Not to mention that two outfits cost like a base game...

    Could not agree more.

  • DeadByFlashlight
    DeadByFlashlight Member Posts: 1,642

    @Gilly said:
    The cosmetics cost 10$ each. That's two hours of work for me, with taxes accounted for. I can't use this money on food, on phone bills, on internet, on other games or on rent. I have bought every DLC and I actually think the packs like Bloodstained Sack had a 'fair' value to them-- 3$ for 8 cosmetic items that are actually nice to look at? I feel like .20 is definitely fair for a cosmetic. 3$ per cosmetic part, 10$ for a whole outfit? It's really not fair.

    If everyone would stop throwing money at BHVR, they would realize that sth is wrong.
    But as long as money is still fyling towards them, there is no need to take action

  • Peasant
    Peasant Member Posts: 4,104
    Lowbei said:
    either buy the cosmetics or dont. we dont need the ranting of greedy entitled children
    Dead by Daylight rating: 18+
    People 18+ can get jobs and save money over time.
    (The cosmetics aren't going anywhere.)
    Therefore the whiners age <18+
    Therefore whiners shouldn't be playing the game in the first place.

    I rest my case.
  • will_i_am_14_85
    will_i_am_14_85 Member Posts: 489

    I was happy when I heard the announcement about the cosmetics will be purchased from the store, as I was worried that I wouldn't have enough time to grind enough to get all of them.

    Also, BHVR is a growing company, seemingly every single Metro station and train here in Montreal has an advert for there company, why shouldn't they charge for cosmetics? Hell, other games have purchasable 'season passes' for extra characters etc, here you can grind one skin for free.

    Get over it people

  • BoxingRouge
    BoxingRouge Member Posts: 606
    edited October 2018
    You really think they were going to release all of those good looking cosmetics for free just to grind? 😂 
  • Peasant
    Peasant Member Posts: 4,104

    Here is a scenario for you all to see this situation through:

    You're walking down the street and you see a florist walking by and they have a small bundle of beautiful roses. You talk to the florist and tell them that those are some of the finest roses you've ever seen. So the florist, who was flattered by your compliment gives you one of the roses.

    Most people, like myself, would be grateful for even just one rose and continue on our merry way.

    However, it would seem that a number of people would expect the florist to surrender their entire bundle of roses to them.

    I ask all of us, where's the sense in that? You can substitute roses with a number of things: watches, portraits or paintings, maybe even smartphone cases, etc. The point I'm trying to make here is that why should the merchant in this scenario, the businessman or businesswoman, give away goods to you?

  • MisterCremaster
    MisterCremaster Member Posts: 614

    @Gilly said:
    The cosmetics cost 10$ each. That's two hours of work for me, with taxes accounted for. I can't use this money on food, on phone bills, on internet, on other games or on rent. I have bought every DLC and I actually think the packs like Bloodstained Sack had a 'fair' value to them-- 3$ for 8 cosmetic items that are actually nice to look at? I feel like .20 is definitely fair for a cosmetic. 3$ per cosmetic part, 10$ for a whole outfit? It's really not fair.

    Dude, this is gonna sound harsh, but if you're making $5 an hour after taxes you shouldn't be buying ANY cosmetics. They don't change your game play, and you you really do have a lot more important things to spend your money on.

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,614

    Listen to your audience? Mkay.
    is part of the audience I'm fine with this.

  • Fibijean
    Fibijean Member Posts: 8,342

    I feel like what a lot of people are missing is that it's mostly a matter of disappointed expectations. This is the first time they've tried to monetize a community event, and they gave no indication that they were doing so until a dev stream 24 hours before the launch of the event. People have grown to expect a couple of token cosmetics in exchange for a fun grind exclusively with events, and there was no reason to believe this would be any different. Events are usually free. Amazing skins like that are usually cells-only, and most people are fine with that. It's the fact that they combined the two and it just feels like a Halloween skinset with extra steps. It's nice that we can get one for free, but I think it's understandable that people are upset, not because they don't get free stuff but because they built up an expectation based on past events and were then disappointed.

    @Peasant The florist analogy is quite helpful. If you want to understand the opposing viewpoint, you could think of it this way: If this florist had come to your house with a bunch of roses they were selling, and you said "wow those are amazing" and they were so flattered that they gave you the whole bunch without you having to pay. They came to your door several times after that, each time with a bunch of roses that they give you for free. They say that it's because they like you so much, and really appreciate how much you love their flowers. Then one day, they appear on your doorstep with a dozen bunches of roses. You think, "oh wow, are they really going to give me all these just because they like me so much? That's amazing and incredibly generous, they must have put a lot of work into arranging those flowers." and the florist says, "look, you can have one bunch for free like usual. But I want you to pay for the rest." Some people are going to say "I understand, thank you for the bunch of roses." They might even say "I will happily pay for more." But I hope you can understand why some might be a little disappointed, even if they understand the florist's point of view, because every time they've met the florist in the past, they've been given free flowers and told that the florist wanted to give them free flowers because they appreciated them so much. They might feel like they weren't appreciated as much as they thought, or that the florist was really only priming them the whole time so that they'd be willing to buy flowers when the time came, and the flowers weren't really out of appreciation after all but a marketing strategy instead.

    I know it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm trying to illustrate a different viewpoint so that there can be more understanding of other perspectives, even if we don't agree with them.

  • Lowbei
    Lowbei Member Posts: 2,637
    edited October 2018
    YOU WILL IGNORE THESE FILTHY HEATHENS

    I AM THE AUDIENCE

    YOU DID WELL THIS PATCH

    YOU HAVE DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB SO FAR

    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK

    PRAISE THE ENTITY



  • Peasant
    Peasant Member Posts: 4,104

    @Fibijean said:
    I feel like what a lot of people are missing is that it's mostly a matter of disappointed expectations. This is the first time they've tried to monetize a community event, and they gave no indication that they were doing so until a dev stream 24 hours before the launch of the event. People have grown to expect a couple of token cosmetics in exchange for a fun grind exclusively with events, and there was no reason to believe this would be any different. Events are usually free. Amazing skins like that are usually cells-only, and most people are fine with that. It's the fact that they combined the two and it just feels like a Halloween skinset with extra steps. It's nice that we can get one for free, but I think it's understandable that people are upset, not because they don't get free stuff but because they built up an expectation based on past events and were then disappointed.

    @Peasant The florist analogy is quite helpful. If you want to understand the opposing viewpoint, you could think of it this way: If this florist had come to your house with a bunch of roses they were selling, and you said "wow those are amazing" and they were so flattered that they gave you the whole bunch without you having to pay. They came to your door several times after that, each time with a bunch of roses that they give you for free. They say that it's because they like you so much, and really appreciate how much you love their flowers. Then one day, they appear on your doorstep with a dozen bunches of roses. You think, "oh wow, are they really going to give me all these just because they like me so much? That's amazing and incredibly generous, they must have put a lot of work into arranging those flowers." and the florist says, "look, you can have one bunch for free like usual. But I want you to pay for the rest." Some people are going to say "I understand, thank you for the bunch of roses." They might even say "I will happily pay for more." But I hope you can understand why some might be a little disappointed, even if they understand the florist's point of view, because every time they've met the florist in the past, they've been given free flowers and told that the florist wanted to give them free flowers because they appreciated them so much. They might feel like they weren't appreciated as much as they thought, or that the florist was really only priming them the whole time so that they'd be willing to buy flowers when the time came, and the flowers weren't really out of appreciation after all but a marketing strategy instead.

    I know it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm trying to illustrate a different viewpoint so that there can be more understanding of other perspectives, even if we don't agree with them.

    I'm just glad someone else tried their hand at showing the other side's view merely because I'm too tired and fed up with their nonsense to take their view seriously.

    I understand the disappointment of learning that you cannot get all of the skins through grinding. I wasn't too thrilled to learn that initially but at least we get something. Besides, everyone keeps clamoring for new features and ideas, like dedicated servers, but then when it's time to fund these projects and pay the developers and designers for their work everyone falls silent.

    The main reason I lack empathy for the other side is namely due to the realization that I'm talking to children. Dead by Daylight is an 18+ horror game. If everyone here is an adult and everyone works we should ideally be able to set some money aside from our paychecks and then buy the cosmetic we like at a later date. However, what I see is a see of repeated grammar mistakes and entitled whining. I'm trying to listen and see reason but all I'm seeing is people shouting and whining at the devs because the community overhyped themselves. It's the figurative equivalent of stabbing yourself in the foot and then whining that the people who sold you the knife are at fault for your horrible choice and bad judgment.

  • rafajsp
    rafajsp Member Posts: 475

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Gilly said:
    The cosmetics cost 10$ each. That's two hours of work for me, with taxes accounted for. I can't use this money on food, on phone bills, on internet, on other games or on rent. I have bought every DLC and I actually think the packs like Bloodstained Sack had a 'fair' value to them-- 3$ for 8 cosmetic items that are actually nice to look at? I feel like .20 is definitely fair for a cosmetic. 3$ per cosmetic part, 10$ for a whole outfit? It's really not fair.

    If everyone would stop throwing money at BHVR, they would realize that sth is wrong.
    But as long as money is still fyling towards them, there is no need to take action

    If you like/love the game, show some respect.
    We are not throwing money ! As we need improvements like dedicated servers, fps improvements as they need money to sustain their team.
    The shop is their ask for our help ...

  • DeadByFlashlight
    DeadByFlashlight Member Posts: 1,642

    @rafajsp said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Gilly said:
    The cosmetics cost 10$ each. That's two hours of work for me, with taxes accounted for. I can't use this money on food, on phone bills, on internet, on other games or on rent. I have bought every DLC and I actually think the packs like Bloodstained Sack had a 'fair' value to them-- 3$ for 8 cosmetic items that are actually nice to look at? I feel like .20 is definitely fair for a cosmetic. 3$ per cosmetic part, 10$ for a whole outfit? It's really not fair.

    If everyone would stop throwing money at BHVR, they would realize that sth is wrong.
    But as long as money is still fyling towards them, there is no need to take action

    If you like/love the game, show some respect.
    We are not throwing money ! As we need improvements like dedicated servers, fps improvements as they need money to sustain their team.
    The shop is their ask for our help ...

    You are throwing money at them, otherwise they would not continue delivering DLCs and skins.
    Yes we need servers,optimization (you forgot about balance btw), but the money is not being used for that and this is the issue why I stopped supporting BHVR.

    Once I see real progress being made in these important aspects, I am willing to open my wallet again, but so far I see no intention to change that from BHVRs side

  • Fibijean
    Fibijean Member Posts: 8,342

    @Peasant I feel you, but I also feel like giving people the option to unlock things for free with a huge grind while still making them available for purchase would be a better marketing strategy, given that people are so upset. I think that more people would want to pay for the cosmetics/support the devs if they didn't feel like they'd been led astray in the first place. It may or may not be an accurate feeling, but the fact is it's impacting players' willingness to support the game financially. And if it's better for marketing AND player satisfaction, then it's a win-win.

    (By the way, there are a lot of valid reasons why people over 18 might not have the financial means to buy cosmetics. I can give examples if you like, but point is just because people are poor doesn't mean they're literal children, even if they act like it :P )

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,614
    edited October 2018

    @Lowbei said:
    YOU WILL IGNORE THESE FILTHY HEATHENS

    I AM THE AUDIENCE

    YOU DID WELL THIS PATCH

    YOU HAVE DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB SO FAR

    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK

    PRAISE THE ENTITY

    That picture looks as if the Entity is trying out positions to sleep in.
    "If i put this spider leg over this one, i won't feel constant pressure."

  • Peasant
    Peasant Member Posts: 4,104
    edited October 2018

    @Fibijean said:
    @Peasant I feel you, but I also feel like giving people the option to unlock things for free with a huge grind while still making them available for purchase would be a better marketing strategy, given that people are so upset. I think that more people would want to pay for the cosmetics/support the devs if they didn't feel like they'd been led astray in the first place. It may or may not be an accurate feeling, but the fact is it's impacting players' willingness to support the game financially. And if it's better for marketing AND player satisfaction, then it's a win-win.

    (By the way, there are a lot of valid reasons why people over 18 might not have the financial means to buy cosmetics. I can give examples if you like, but the point is just because people are poor doesn't mean they're literal children, even if they act like it :P )

    I honestly believe I know why the developers capped the amount of serum gained, and it was so that everyone could get cosmetics. Think about how much time there is in the event right now, if people could unlock everything then either everyone would play killer to have no serum loss or they'd bum-rush the visceral cankers as survivors. This would ultimately culminate in anger at killers for denying farm matches and it would cause killer queue times to spike.

    I understand that not everyone who is poor is a child as there are a great number of variables in life that can really make life hell. I only mentioned children because as you stated there was a lot of whining as well as . . .
    this:


    I get that Minecraft wasn't always a kid's game, however, it's a kid's game now and seeing the portrayal of anything else in a Minecraft style is a dead giveaway that children are afoot. I don't know the sheer number of people that shouldn't be playing this game amongst us, so I'm forced to guess based on a number of unreliable variables. The most reliable of these variables is basic communication so when a user lacks good grammar, spelling, or uses very simple words all the time I make the assumption of youth.

  • DeadByFlashlight
    DeadByFlashlight Member Posts: 1,642

    @Peasant said:

    @Fibijean said:
    @Peasant I feel you, but I also feel like giving people the option to unlock things for free with a huge grind while still making them available for purchase would be a better marketing strategy, given that people are so upset. I think that more people would want to pay for the cosmetics/support the devs if they didn't feel like they'd been led astray in the first place. It may or may not be an accurate feeling, but the fact is it's impacting players' willingness to support the game financially. And if it's better for marketing AND player satisfaction, then it's a win-win.

    (By the way, there are a lot of valid reasons why people over 18 might not have the financial means to buy cosmetics. I can give examples if you like, but the point is just because people are poor doesn't mean they're literal children, even if they act like it :P )

    I honestly believe I know why the developers capped the amount of serum gained, and it was so that everyone could get cosmetics. Think about how much time there is in the event right now, if people could unlock everything then either everyone would play killer to have no serum loss or they'd bum-rush the visceral cankers as survivors. This would ultimately culminate in anger at killers for denying farm matches and it would cause killer queue times to spike.

    I understand that not everyone who is poor is a child as there are a great number of variables in life that can really make life hell. I only mentioned children because as you stated there was a lot of whining as well as . . .
    this:


    I get that Minecraft wasn't always a kid's game, however, it's a kid's game now and seeing the portrayal of anything else in a Minecraft style is a dead giveaway that children are afoot. I don't know the sheer number of people that shouldn't be playing this game amongst us, so I'm forced to guess based on a number of unreliable variables. The most reliable of these variables is basic communication so when a user lacks good grammar, spelling, or uses very simple words all the time I make the assumption of youth.

    Sometimes its hard to distinguish a 12 year old native english speaker from some "adults", especially when they are russians :smile:

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
    Peasant said:

    @Fibijean said:
    I feel like what a lot of people are missing is that it's mostly a matter of disappointed expectations. This is the first time they've tried to monetize a community event, and they gave no indication that they were doing so until a dev stream 24 hours before the launch of the event. People have grown to expect a couple of token cosmetics in exchange for a fun grind exclusively with events, and there was no reason to believe this would be any different. Events are usually free. Amazing skins like that are usually cells-only, and most people are fine with that. It's the fact that they combined the two and it just feels like a Halloween skinset with extra steps. It's nice that we can get one for free, but I think it's understandable that people are upset, not because they don't get free stuff but because they built up an expectation based on past events and were then disappointed.

    @Peasant The florist analogy is quite helpful. If you want to understand the opposing viewpoint, you could think of it this way: If this florist had come to your house with a bunch of roses they were selling, and you said "wow those are amazing" and they were so flattered that they gave you the whole bunch without you having to pay. They came to your door several times after that, each time with a bunch of roses that they give you for free. They say that it's because they like you so much, and really appreciate how much you love their flowers. Then one day, they appear on your doorstep with a dozen bunches of roses. You think, "oh wow, are they really going to give me all these just because they like me so much? That's amazing and incredibly generous, they must have put a lot of work into arranging those flowers." and the florist says, "look, you can have one bunch for free like usual. But I want you to pay for the rest." Some people are going to say "I understand, thank you for the bunch of roses." They might even say "I will happily pay for more." But I hope you can understand why some might be a little disappointed, even if they understand the florist's point of view, because every time they've met the florist in the past, they've been given free flowers and told that the florist wanted to give them free flowers because they appreciated them so much. They might feel like they weren't appreciated as much as they thought, or that the florist was really only priming them the whole time so that they'd be willing to buy flowers when the time came, and the flowers weren't really out of appreciation after all but a marketing strategy instead.

    I know it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm trying to illustrate a different viewpoint so that there can be more understanding of other perspectives, even if we don't agree with them.

    I'm just glad someone else tried their hand at showing the other side's view merely because I'm too tired and fed up with their nonsense to take their view seriously.

    I understand the disappointment of learning that you cannot get all of the skins through grinding. I wasn't too thrilled to learn that initially but at least we get something. Besides, everyone keeps clamoring for new features and ideas, like dedicated servers, but then when it's time to fund these projects and pay the developers and designers for their work everyone falls silent.

    The main reason I lack empathy for the other side is namely due to the realization that I'm talking to children. Dead by Daylight is an 18+ horror game. If everyone here is an adult and everyone works we should ideally be able to set some money aside from our paychecks and then buy the cosmetic we like at a later date. However, what I see is a see of repeated grammar mistakes and entitled whining. I'm trying to listen and see reason but all I'm seeing is people shouting and whining at the devs because the community overhyped themselves. It's the figurative equivalent of stabbing yourself in the foot and then whining that the people who sold you the knife are at fault for your horrible choice and bad judgment.

    Of course it would have been nice to get more free skins. But no one works for free. Devs did an amazing job with those skins. 
    If people can't afford them, then they still can unlock a complete set for free.
    People don't NEED those skins to play. They are purely luxury. 
  • Peasant
    Peasant Member Posts: 4,104

    @Tsulan said:
    Peasant said:

    @Fibijean said:

    I feel like what a lot of people are missing is that it's mostly a matter of disappointed expectations. This is the first time they've tried to monetize a community event, and they gave no indication that they were doing so until a dev stream 24 hours before the launch of the event. People have grown to expect a couple of token cosmetics in exchange for a fun grind exclusively with events, and there was no reason to believe this would be any different. Events are usually free. Amazing skins like that are usually cells-only, and most people are fine with that. It's the fact that they combined the two and it just feels like a Halloween skinset with extra steps. It's nice that we can get one for free, but I think it's understandable that people are upset, not because they don't get free stuff but because they built up an expectation based on past events and were then disappointed.

    @Peasant The florist analogy is quite helpful. If you want to understand the opposing viewpoint, you could think of it this way: If this florist had come to your house with a bunch of roses they were selling, and you said "wow those are amazing" and they were so flattered that they gave you the whole bunch without you having to pay. They came to your door several times after that, each time with a bunch of roses that they give you for free. They say that it's because they like you so much, and really appreciate how much you love their flowers. Then one day, they appear on your doorstep with a dozen bunches of roses. You think, "oh wow, are they really going to give me all these just because they like me so much? That's amazing and incredibly generous, they must have put a lot of work into arranging those flowers." and the florist says, "look, you can have one bunch for free like usual. But I want you to pay for the rest." Some people are going to say "I understand, thank you for the bunch of roses." They might even say "I will happily pay for more." But I hope you can understand why some might be a little disappointed, even if they understand the florist's point of view, because every time they've met the florist in the past, they've been given free flowers and told that the florist wanted to give them free flowers because they appreciated them so much. They might feel like they weren't appreciated as much as they thought, or that the florist was really only priming them the whole time so that they'd be willing to buy flowers when the time came, and the flowers weren't really out of appreciation after all but a marketing strategy instead.

    I know it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm trying to illustrate a different viewpoint so that there can be more understanding of other perspectives, even if we don't agree with them.

    I'm just glad someone else tried their hand at showing the other side's view merely because I'm too tired and fed up with their nonsense to take their view seriously.

    I understand the disappointment of learning that you cannot get all of the skins through grinding. I wasn't too thrilled to learn that initially but at least we get something. Besides, everyone keeps clamoring for new features and ideas, like dedicated servers, but then when it's time to fund these projects and pay the developers and designers for their work everyone falls silent.

    The main reason I lack empathy for the other side is namely due to the realization that I'm talking to children. Dead by Daylight is an 18+ horror game. If everyone here is an adult and everyone works we should ideally be able to set some money aside from our paychecks and then buy the cosmetic we like at a later date. However, what I see is a see of repeated grammar mistakes and entitled whining. I'm trying to listen and see reason but all I'm seeing is people shouting and whining at the devs because the community overhyped themselves. It's the figurative equivalent of stabbing yourself in the foot and then whining that the people who sold you the knife are at fault for your horrible choice and bad judgment.

    Of course it would have been nice to get more free skins. But no one works for free. Devs did an amazing job with those skins. 
    If people can't afford them, then they still can unlock a complete set for free.
    People don't NEED those skins to play. They are purely luxury. 

    What's really great is that majority of the skins are killer skins which can't even really be seen outside of the menu and the first 5 seconds of a trial. People are getting genuinely upset from their own hype over cosmetics that most of them won't even see.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
    Peasant said:

    @Tsulan said:
    Peasant said:

    @Fibijean said:

    I feel like what a lot of people are missing is that it's mostly a matter of disappointed expectations. This is the first time they've tried to monetize a community event, and they gave no indication that they were doing so until a dev stream 24 hours before the launch of the event. People have grown to expect a couple of token cosmetics in exchange for a fun grind exclusively with events, and there was no reason to believe this would be any different. Events are usually free. Amazing skins like that are usually cells-only, and most people are fine with that. It's the fact that they combined the two and it just feels like a Halloween skinset with extra steps. It's nice that we can get one for free, but I think it's understandable that people are upset, not because they don't get free stuff but because they built up an expectation based on past events and were then disappointed.

    @Peasant The florist analogy is quite helpful. If you want to understand the opposing viewpoint, you could think of it this way: If this florist had come to your house with a bunch of roses they were selling, and you said "wow those are amazing" and they were so flattered that they gave you the whole bunch without you having to pay. They came to your door several times after that, each time with a bunch of roses that they give you for free. They say that it's because they like you so much, and really appreciate how much you love their flowers. Then one day, they appear on your doorstep with a dozen bunches of roses. You think, "oh wow, are they really going to give me all these just because they like me so much? That's amazing and incredibly generous, they must have put a lot of work into arranging those flowers." and the florist says, "look, you can have one bunch for free like usual. But I want you to pay for the rest." Some people are going to say "I understand, thank you for the bunch of roses." They might even say "I will happily pay for more." But I hope you can understand why some might be a little disappointed, even if they understand the florist's point of view, because every time they've met the florist in the past, they've been given free flowers and told that the florist wanted to give them free flowers because they appreciated them so much. They might feel like they weren't appreciated as much as they thought, or that the florist was really only priming them the whole time so that they'd be willing to buy flowers when the time came, and the flowers weren't really out of appreciation after all but a marketing strategy instead.

    I know it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm trying to illustrate a different viewpoint so that there can be more understanding of other perspectives, even if we don't agree with them.

    I'm just glad someone else tried their hand at showing the other side's view merely because I'm too tired and fed up with their nonsense to take their view seriously.

    I understand the disappointment of learning that you cannot get all of the skins through grinding. I wasn't too thrilled to learn that initially but at least we get something. Besides, everyone keeps clamoring for new features and ideas, like dedicated servers, but then when it's time to fund these projects and pay the developers and designers for their work everyone falls silent.

    The main reason I lack empathy for the other side is namely due to the realization that I'm talking to children. Dead by Daylight is an 18+ horror game. If everyone here is an adult and everyone works we should ideally be able to set some money aside from our paychecks and then buy the cosmetic we like at a later date. However, what I see is a see of repeated grammar mistakes and entitled whining. I'm trying to listen and see reason but all I'm seeing is people shouting and whining at the devs because the community overhyped themselves. It's the figurative equivalent of stabbing yourself in the foot and then whining that the people who sold you the knife are at fault for your horrible choice and bad judgment.

    Of course it would have been nice to get more free skins. But no one works for free. Devs did an amazing job with those skins. 
    If people can't afford them, then they still can unlock a complete set for free.
    People don't NEED those skins to play. They are purely luxury. 

    What's really great is that majority of the skins are killer skins which can't even really be seen outside of the menu and the first 5 seconds of a trial. People are getting genuinely upset from their own hype over cosmetics that most of them won't even see.

    That's why I'm on the edge on which I'll unlock. 
    Might be even survivor. 
  • Causticwit75
    Causticwit75 Member Posts: 32
    edited December 2018

    They did the right thing and met us in the middle in the end, yay for them.

    Post edited by Causticwit75 on
  • Fibijean
    Fibijean Member Posts: 8,342
    edited October 2018

    @Peasant That's a fair point about how things would play out in that scenario, which I'll admit I didn't think about. But that wasn't the case in previous events, which didn't have a cap (or rather, were capped at the max needed to get all the cosmetics). It's probably not worth speculating over too much unless they actually do change, which is unlikely.

    Lmao @ the minecraft thing. Did not know that was a thing.

    Unfortunately, bad grammar or spelling are usually more an indicator of someone who either doesn't care or isn't well educated, rather than age. Although the charitable thing to do would be to chalk up immaturity to youth, in a lot of cases it might not be so accurate.

    Also that's totally true about the skins. Seems a bit silly when you think of it that way.

  • Peasant
    Peasant Member Posts: 4,104

    @Tsulan said:
    Peasant said:

    @Tsulan said:

    Peasant said:

    @Fibijean said:

I feel like what a lot of people are missing is that it's mostly a matter of disappointed expectations. This is the first time they've tried to monetize a community event, and they gave no indication that they were doing so until a dev stream 24 hours before the launch of the event. People have grown to expect a couple of token cosmetics in exchange for a fun grind exclusively with events, and there was no reason to believe this would be any different. Events are usually free. Amazing skins like that are usually cells-only, and most people are fine with that. It's the fact that they combined the two and it just feels like a Halloween skinset with extra steps. It's nice that we can get one for free, but I think it's understandable that people are upset, not because they don't get free stuff but because they built up an expectation based on past events and were then disappointed.

    @Peasant The florist analogy is quite helpful. If you want to understand the opposing viewpoint, you could think of it this way: If this florist had come to your house with a bunch of roses they were selling, and you said "wow those are amazing" and they were so flattered that they gave you the whole bunch without you having to pay. They came to your door several times after that, each time with a bunch of roses that they give you for free. They say that it's because they like you so much, and really appreciate how much you love their flowers. Then one day, they appear on your doorstep with a dozen bunches of roses. You think, "oh wow, are they really going to give me all these just because they like me so much? That's amazing and incredibly generous, they must have put a lot of work into arranging those flowers." and the florist says, "look, you can have one bunch for free like usual. But I want you to pay for the rest." Some people are going to say "I understand, thank you for the bunch of roses." They might even say "I will happily pay for more." But I hope you can understand why some might be a little disappointed, even if they understand the florist's point of view, because every time they've met the florist in the past, they've been given free flowers and told that the florist wanted to give them free flowers because they appreciated them so much. They might feel like they weren't appreciated as much as they thought, or that the florist was really only priming them the whole time so that they'd be willing to buy flowers when the time came, and the flowers weren't really out of appreciation after all but a marketing strategy instead.

    I know it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm trying to illustrate a different viewpoint so that there can be more understanding of other perspectives, even if we don't agree with them.



I'm just glad someone else tried their hand at showing the other side's view merely because I'm too tired and fed up with their nonsense to take their view seriously.

I understand the disappointment of learning that you cannot get all of the skins through grinding. I wasn't too thrilled to learn that initially but at least we get something. Besides, everyone keeps clamoring for new features and ideas, like dedicated servers, but then when it's time to fund these projects and pay the developers and designers for their work everyone falls silent.

The main reason I lack empathy for the other side is namely due to the realization that I'm talking to children. Dead by Daylight is an 18+ horror game. If everyone here is an adult and everyone works we should ideally be able to set some money aside from our paychecks and then buy the cosmetic we like at a later date. However, what I see is a see of repeated grammar mistakes and entitled whining. I'm trying to listen and see reason but all I'm seeing is people shouting and whining at the devs because the community overhyped themselves. It's the figurative equivalent of stabbing yourself in the foot and then whining that the people who sold you the knife are at fault for your horrible choice and bad judgment.



Of course it would have been nice to get more free skins. But no one works for free. Devs did an amazing job with those skins. 

    If people can't afford them, then they still can unlock a complete set for free.

    People don't NEED those skins to play. They are purely luxury. 

    What's really great is that majority of the skins are killer skins which can't even really be seen outside of the menu and the first 5 seconds of a trial. People are getting genuinely upset from their own hype over cosmetics that most of them won't even see.

    That's why I'm on the edge on which I'll unlock. 
    Might be even survivor. 

    @Causticwit75 said:
    Anyone obsessed with how old people on forums are usually isn't very old or mature themselves. A mature person would accept that anyone else posting on this forum an opinion is entitled to that opinion and not attempt to force their own label on that person with the remarkable effort that you have. If your Florist argument were to be sound it needs some changes...... BHVR isn't a stranger giving us something free. We are invested customers who have spent money and loyalty on their product. You aren't nearly as clever as you seem to think. I personally don't mind spending money on cosmetics, they are optional. I do think 3/7 available for earning would be a bit more reasonable personally.

    I like to think like Voltaire. "I may not agree with what you're saying, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it." While I did suggest that there is a problem with maturity likely coming from youth, my primary concern was attempting to communicate to other players that not everything is free. BHVR is above all a business and it is in the interest of the business to make a profit. I understand that after paying the base sum of twenty dollars (or whatever else you paid) to acquire Dead by Daylight you expect to not have to pay any more money, however, BHVR is a growing company and they need funding. So while I can understand how some consumers are upset I will ultimately side with the company providing the service as we keep consistently demanding new features of them while many of us fail to offer additional funding to support these goals. For example, many people want dedicated servers. To the best of my knowledge getting dedicated servers would be rather expensive and yet very few people seem to want to contribute to this goal financially. I understand that this event is different than past events. I participated in those events! At the same time, however, I cannot justify the large amount of hate directed at BHVR for changing up their system. I sincerely apologize if I have upset you in some way. I just care deeply about the future of Dead by Daylight and BHVR which in turn caused to negatively respond to the wave of "mass criticism" that I instinctively saw as mass hate.