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Killers: Never Hooked to Mori'd
Hi guys! Let me first say that this is not an attempt to start an argument or to start a pile-on of toxicity. This is something that I'm genuinely curious about and would love to get Killer main's opinion on! Let's all be kind and respectful to one another!
My question is about moris and the recent uptick I've personally seen in their use. While it is far from every game it is becoming common enough for me to see moris being used again that I'm making this thread. I'd really like to know how Killer mains (especially ones who use moris) think of this in comparison to keys. If you are a Killer who uses moris but dislikes keys can you explain what the difference between them is to you and why one is fair and one isn't?
I've always been pretty outspoken about how much I dislike keys and moris in this game. Anything that ends the match prematurely for either side seems pretty unfair to me. For a Killer it is unfair if Survivors need only have a certain number of deaths in order to have a hatch spawn that they can key out of. For Survivors it is unfair if Killer needs only kill or hook Survivors a certain number of times before they can mori people from the game.
I've seen the defense that moris only remove the walk to third hook and really only shave a few seconds and any last possible palette or flashlight or wiggle saves and while that's sometimes true it's hardly the case most times.
In three of my recent matches I've escaped a chase from a Killer and have played a good round, been in the final 1-2 gen part of the game and then have been mori'd without having been hooked a single time. Once was even by a Michael who ran that perk where you're permanently Exposed for the entire game once his meter fills so he literally only had to hit me once and then he instant killed me, skipping 3 hooks/5 hits/2 downs.
I stand by my original belief that both keys and moris are unfair to their opponent and I see complaints of both - but more often keys - on the forums so I wanted to start a friendly discussion. Thank you and happy gaming, all! <3
Comments
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so I dislike keys compared to moris. Also that michael could've bee running the yellow mori which allows you to mori the last survivor no matter what, or it could've been rancor. anyways the mori's only work on people who are dead hook so its pretty much just a fancy way of hooking them a third time. if keys could only open the hatch after all gens would be done I would be content with them because that would be the equivalent of a killer mori-ing a survivor. a mori doesn't give the chance to wiggle and the keys don't give a chance to catch survivors so if they only worked after gens were done they would be equal.
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sometimes moris can come in clutch but more often than not they are just murder simulation porn for the killer. I loved Friday the 13th because Moris were basekit and customizable. I just enjoy using ebony moris on killers like Oni because I find them satisfying.
The only mori that can kill you without having been hooked is the yellow one, and that only works on the last survivor. I'd still rather use ebony.
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The comparison used to be there, in the sense that they both shortened the game for free, but the Mori nerf changed it up quite a bit. Now their only real use in terms of gameplay is to avoid picking up and hooking a survivor on death hook. Not that impactful, and for that I feel that they are in a good spot.
Keys, on the other hand, still do what they always did
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Moris in their current form in no way compare to keys. Youre already on death hook when its used. I dont use them because i dont care, but the two are no longer comparable.
The only way youve been mori'd without being hooked is if you were the last survivor and they had a yellow one or were hacking. Michael has the timbstone he can run so that explains that one.
Keys end the game prematurily. Ive had many where i was def going to win till they used a key. Its #########, moris, youre already dead anyway 🤷♂️
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as i killer i did like moris in the past, but i don't want to use them now since they hold no benefit to me. i see them as time wasters and i don't care much for the animation that plays.
as for keys. i don't mind keys as killer. recently i had a game where 3 survivors got out after i killed the 1st one. right front of me after i hooked him. i think 3 gens were repaired. i cant remember all that though.
it's just that keys as of right now are still stronger than moris and give better benefits for using them.
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Moris, in their current state, are a near-useless offering. Their best use is to bypass a possible DS on someone on death hook or prevent some other save. Old moris are what get compared to keys, because they both let you bypass your primary objective in time increments that could be measured in minutes. Now, at best, a mori will save you an extra chase or two under ideal conditions, while keys are in their strongest-ever state now that Franklin's Demise has almost no effect on them.
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We've already had a friendly discussion about the actual Mori offering before, but what you're describing here is something altogether different, so I'll throw my friendly 2 cents in. 🙂
The Myers Mori, if you were never hooked, was going to be one of the Tombstone add-ons. If the Myers was running the Purple Tombstone piece, then I agree that you were definitely shafted (no pun intended). That add-on is probably one of the most broken in the game and largely unfair, as you can have your teammates feed all of the stalk to Myers to get him to Tier 3 before you get Moried after never seeing the killer. It's one that should be reworked into something else.
If the Myers used Judith's Tombstone, however -- that's a different story, especially if they were running the Tuft of Hair with it. It takes a LONG time to get to Tier 3 with those two add-ons, the Myers has to get a lot of stalk from every survivor to even get there, and they'll be moving slower while having it (unless they're running PWYF). That may not feel like the Myers earned it, but there are serious mistakes being made by all the survivors if a Myers is able to finish off a team (or multiple survivors with it). If a Myers isn't doing anything to try and down people (and if they're running PWYF, they won't want to lose the stacks) and it's taking a LONG time for them to pop a Tier 3, I assume that they're running the Tuft of Hair and/or Judith's and play accordingly. Myers players trying that have matches that end in one of two ways -- all gens have popped by the time they get the needed stalk and no one (or maybe one person dies), or they finish everyone off (usually because their opponents have made mistakes to feed him). It's a powerful combination, but by no means unbeatable or unfair (even if you die without being hooked).
The other Mori possibilities that can kill you without a hook (other than the Cypress, which can still kill you if you're the last person left, but a hook would do the same thing, so we'll ignore it) are Rancor and Devour Hope. Both of those are fair perks that have counters to them.
Rancor will be giving you the killer's aura after every generator pop, alerting you well into the match that you're going to be in danger if all gens are popped -- stealth after the last gen pops (and being as far away from the killer as possible when that happens) is the counterplay. I don't mind Rancor as a survivor, because in exchange for the info I'm getting in-match as to the killer's whereabouts, I have the feeling of dread of knowing I can be insta-downed and killed immediately if I'm not in the right position at the end -- so it adds a level of tension to the round that isn't normally there (plus, it's a little funny to watch someone hit the killer with DS during the match and take the Obsession status away from you and put the target on their back -- that happened with my friend and I once, and it was funny watching him scramble during Endgame while I could breathe a huge sigh of relief, lol). Again, it's not a fun feeling if you haven't been downed until the end and you end up dead, but it's not like it's coming without plenty of warning for you to figure out how to avoid it.
Devour Hope is arguably one of the scariest perks to go against, but again, it's a fair one. Totem spawns are notoriously terrible on most maps (with the few exceptions, where they can be tough to find), so I've been in matches as survivor where Devour never collects a token. There are numerous totem-killer perks that make it harder for Devour to make it to 3 tokens, never mind 5, so long as survivors bother to do totems. It rewards a killer to leave the hook, which obviously survivors should be happy with, so when it reaches that 3rd token and survivors know it's a thing, then the killer has earned a level of reward. There is no Adrenaline rush (no pun intended) in the game like the feeling when you see Devour has made everyone exposed and it's a mad dash to find the totem before people start dying. It's not unbeatable -- I've played survivor rounds where we've gotten to the totem with minimal damage after knowing it was a thing -- but I can understand it's frustrating if you're downed and dead without being hooked once. But it's one of the few perks that, if you even suspect a killer might be running it, encourages a secondary objective for survivors -- looking for and cleansing totems. I rarely run it as killer (the last time I did, it was to do a daily instead of running a Mori), but when I've had success with it, it has usually been against teams so focused on pounding out gens that they ignored everything else to their own peril -- I've literally had my Devour totem spawn in the wide open near a gen and had survivors ignore it because it wasn't Ruin and watched them pay for it.
So in a nutshell, other than the purple Tombstone piece on Myers -- which I'll agree should be changed -- the others have counters and the ability to overcome them. The unexpected threat of imminent doom is one of the few times in the game, as a survivor, I actually can tense up during a game, which for a "horror" game, isn't a bad thing. As far as keys go -- while it's definitely aggravating to have survivors keys out in a situation where they wouldn't have escaped otherwise, at this point, when I play killer, I accept that it's a thing that can happen. My friend and I escaped a Rank 1 Demo with only 3 gens done with a key yesterday that I'm sure infuriated the killer (he slugged my friend with the key while we were looking for hatch with our two teammates dead -- I was able to find it, circle back to pick him up, and we scrambled out before the Demo could get back to us). As someone who has absolutely used the key to get out as a survivor numerous times, I can only complain so much when the shoe's on the other foot, lol.
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I don't use moris. If I have a challenge I will use DH.
But moris are not even in the same category as keys. Moris (OG) were the same as BNPs (OG). A killer could remove an objective early and survivors could remove an objective early.
IMO, moris are as useful as shrouds now. Survivors say they can prevent a third hook. When was the last time you saw this? Extremely rare I would assume. Moris are just a flourish kill now. No real benefit.
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I really want to see statistics on hatch escapes if there is any. When I play keys, most of the time I die. When I see other survivors play keys, they usually end up dying too. Seeing a hatch escape in my experience is a very rare thing and I am not exaggerating on that. I really do think killers get too worked up over hatch escapes as if its like them losing 20 matches in a row. I've lost about 15 keys the past few days, with hatch offerings too. Survivors really do not escape using a key as often as people think they do unless I am just one of the survivors who simply doesn't see it a lot. I've had killers literally admit to tunneling me down because I had a key in my hand. They can see my key in the lobby, but I have no idea who the killer is or their loadout until after the match starts and I don't even know they have certain perks until the end game or after the match. Killers have to stop getting so offended about survivors escaping in this game. Don't killers win more matches than the survivors in this game anyway?
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I never used to get out with keys until two things changed for me -- I went from playing with a friend as part of a 2-person team to playing with him as part of a full-fledged, 4-person SWF group, and the hatch offerings came into existence.
When you're a solo, having a key can be useful but not always something you'll be able to get value out of. As part of a 4-person SWF, though with a hatch offering? Unless the killer really plays around it -- heavy slugging or bringing of Franklin's (which, since the recent change, isn't the problem it was before) -- then I found that one of us bringing a key and using a hatch offering was pretty much a guarantee of at least 2 of us getting out, unless we got absolutely got slaughtered early game. Killers we faced couldn't keep up with us. We'd use the hatch spawning at the killer shack offering, have the keyholder drop the key near there to avoid Franklin's, then play normally. With our level of coordination and just the way the game is currently designed to go, we could almost always get 3 gens done, which pretty much guaranteed a 2-person escape. Getting that 4th gen done got us a number of 3-person escapes. The only way this got more difficult was when we ended up on a map without a killer shack, but even then, having multiple eyes looking for the hatch can make all of the difference.
Solo play is something altogether different, I'll grant you -- not that I haven't gotten out with someone that way, though. When I've played killer and seen key escapes by multiple people, it's almost always been what I've suspected was a SWF of some sort who could coordinate it better.
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People still think of moris as anything but a wasted offering slot after the nerf? But why
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That sounds absolutely awful. I do not use the moris myself because, well, I don't know if I will get a lot of kills or not before the game starts. Sometimes they put me against red ranks, sometimes I go up against people who are so desperate to save their SWF that I can snowball into a 4k with relative ease.
But yeah, things that change the win condition that heavily are really bad design.
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Tombstone piece required stalking. If he stalked you then that sound like a you problem. It can be countered by staying out of sight or hopping into a locker. The infinite tier 3 required a huge amount of juice for it to kick in.
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Actually it is depending on what piece you are using.
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Keys are kind of meh to me as they don't really add anything thematic to the game. They are just an easy escape.
I miss the old mori's, as killers are meant to be scary and with the old mori they were.
Maybe the MMR system will fix this again but until its out there is something missing from a horror survival game were the antagonist killer is often more scared of the survivors than the survivors are of the big scary monster trying to kill them.
Something has been lost.
(I'm well aware from a competitive gaming perspective moris could be used to burn an oponent out of the game in under 2 mins, which made them problematic. It never bothered me though as it was thematic to get mori'd. A killer with an old mori was scary as it should be Mori's were so strong even lackluster killers could be scary with them and that was fine with me, nothing worse than a game were the killer gets 1-2 hooks and then everyone just leaves. That's not survival horror, in fact I don't really know what that is).
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I think the point is that tier 3 takes effort. It can be played around. If good survivors are doing a good job of breaking line of sight and keeping away from you, then you have to play the angles and get them in th eopen to stalk.
Tuft plus tombstone and it can require fully draining nearly 3 survivors before it goes off. There is a lot of counter to it, typically if you get to tier 3 Myers at 3-4 gens up, then the survivors have screwed up bad.
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Complaining about Myers aside from his Tombstone Piece is a strang thing to see.
He is one of the worst Killers you can pick and the Tombstone Piece is the only thing that make survivors see a Myers as a dangerous opponent at all. I see the problem with that addon thou and would suggest that it gets changed so that you cna only kill a survivor that has been stalked for a significant ammount of time. Becuase nothing sucks more than getting killed by Tombstone Piece Myers when you never saw him the entire match.
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