Is Camping really a general problem?

TicTac
TicTac Member Posts: 2,414

If a Freddy camps a person, you can get a safe unhook with two people and borrowed time or with three people. But if a Bubba camps, you cant.

So maybe there shouldnt be a general fix to camping like many are suggesting and which would probably break the game, but a change to things which make camping strong.

I personally dont mind camping so much, but i can understand that a facecamping killer from the start is boring. But camping has its uses to win the game and you shouldnt limit the killer in his options too much.

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Comments

  • ShinobuSK
    ShinobuSK Member Posts: 5,279

    Not really since its not that common as some people try to make it be.

    But if I get camping killer several games in a row, I can understand the frustration.

    Luckily most red rank killers either camp very late game/during EGC or are not camping at all

  • InsaneCoaster
    InsaneCoaster Member Posts: 305

    Honestly, I don't find camping too much of an issue. Yeah it's boring, but unnecessary camping isn't actually too common I find. EGC Camping obviously occurs a fair amount, but at least that's justified. That being said, I am biased, since when I play survivor, I usually play in a SWF, meaning we can organise hook saves much more easily than in solo queue.

    I think players should be discouraged from it - some kind of mechanic would be good, but I don't see it as a major issue. It was far worse in the days when you had someone like old Bubba, in which case hook saving was essentially suicide if they were facecamping.

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 5,283

    I don't often experience camping, and even when it does happen it's more of the killer patrolling, which may imply that a) he's seen survivors nearby, b) he's using me as bait, or c) he physically cannot leave me because survivors are just running around me.

    The last time I've experienced a proper face camp was against a Huntress, and in fairness I was sabotaging hooks because of a challenge, so in a way I can see why they'd be annoyed. And this was about a couple of years back.

    So I've probably been lucky, but do understand it's frustrating to face.

  • Kebek
    Kebek Member Posts: 3,676

    It's the same kind of problem that actual gen rushing is, meaning either game itself spawns or survivors just split it the moment game starts to 4 different gens before even the first chase is initiated. Then even single mediocre chase ends in 3 gens beiing finished by the time of killer gets his first hook.

    Exact same thing, one side does something that causes game to be short and boring for the other one without much they can do about it.

    But try fixing either without limiting players options or giving either side unfair bonus to their sweaty strategies. It's just not that simple if it's even fixable at all.


    Imo, incentives are the best way to go around addressing these issues, give actual rewards or make gameplay more rewarding and supportive of playing in a fun way for both sides. Trying to push for punishments or even mechanical limits to gameplay will just result in different kind of abuse, rendering any fix useless in the long run. Some small fair stuff can work but never anyting major (like the old, no hook progress when killer in x range of a hook "feature").

  • Troman
    Troman Member Posts: 264
    edited July 2021

    What I described is a general outline, the problems that you mentioned can be fixed with additional hooking mechanics. Right now when you hook a survivor, you reduce his time on the hook by 50%. Hook someone twice or 3 times within a minute and that survivor is gone, which is very frustrating for the survivor.

    If you take my proposal and reduce time on hook by 20-25% each time a survivor is hooked, it can be one possible solution. And it will still fix camping. At the same time you can still use camping strategically if you wish. Again, total time a survivor can spend on a hook will have to be tweaked, probably reduced, to make sure that killers won't have to do more work than now. This approach would be a generalization of the current hooking system. Additional hooking mechanics can be added too, if needed.

    It will fix not only camping, but tunneling as well, since tunneling will make almost no sense anymore.

  • unclefood87
    unclefood87 Member Posts: 50

    Killers that camp aren’t generally skilled enough to get kills in any legitimate fashion.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    Making the Killer hook more is not the solution. He already lacks the time to 12 hook, when Survivors can bang out 3 gens in the first chase.


    The problem with these ideas is that Survivors think it's 'unfair' if they get removed before THEY want to be removed. They think there's a flaw in the game where they should have input on how or when they die. It's baffling.


    Ah yes, here we go again; insults to attempt to force change on Killers. Salty Survivor mains don't get to decide what is a 'legitimate' kill or not, sorry. He got the kill? Then it was a legitimate kill. End of story.

  • unclefood87
    unclefood87 Member Posts: 50

    I play both sides (killer more often) camping requires no strategy or skill. Maybe I just prefer to “earn” my kills.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    No one cares how you play. Maybe you just lie, for all we know.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,348

    It's still a general problem, even if it's uncommon, because it causes a balancing lock-out.

    As much as the killer experience could be improved by gen speed slowdowns, we can't afford to extend the general match duration since that'd buff camping directly.

    I genuinely think that camping is the biggest issue this game has, due to that kind of collateral damage.

  • Ghouled_Mojo
    Ghouled_Mojo Member Posts: 2,287

    I don’t experience a lot of camping as solo survivor unless the gens are done but then that seems a logical choice for the killer to get extra points at the end game instead of looking for a other target. One in the hand = two in the bush?

    I don’t see many Bubbas anymore for whatever reason. Is that just me?

    are you all really experiencing that many camping killers that are not at end game?

  • chapizwow
    chapizwow Member Posts: 25

    it's not so hard to fix...BHVR just refuses to do it, very different things.

    +30 s to solo gen repair, less % bonus when repairing in groups, +10s to healing, if after 10-15s of someone getting hooked the killer still remains withing certain X distance from the hook (without beign in a chase) he stops winning points, if a surv keep repairing a gen while at a certain X distance from the killer while in it's terror radius he gets exposed.

    Start with that... let's see if the game doesn't become much more fun, with killers been able to have a couple of chases without losing 4 gens; with survs having to actually respect and fear the killer instead of finishing gens in their face or just pressing W without looping to win easily or unhooking in front of the killer; you penalize camping while encouraging the fun part of the game which are chases and you also push survivors to have to improve to win games (which fixes a lot the issue of tons of red ranks who don't even know the basics of the game, like looping, gen order or how to team up to unhook or save an unhooked person been tunneled).

    Again, might not be super easy to find actual "balance" on an asimetrical game, but it is possible... it's just bhvr don't care about it, it's not their focus; since the game itself is not bad, all they need to keep their player base or find new players is getting good licenses from time to time and add some appealing skins for their usual everyday players.

  • RodrigoL
    RodrigoL Member Posts: 50

    Well I for one do camp, Im playing a rank 13 killers vs surv rank1 to 8 most of the times ... I like play as a killer, but like someone said 65% of my matches when I first hooke someone 3 gens are done and the other two ar half way ... So I will make almost no points, I try to camp to get at least 1 kill, because everytime I dont know if its swf or solo player but they always come to rescue, and they almost always can escape ... In the meantime survivor trade hooks, I get more bloodboind ( they always make more then me ) and almost 3 of them escape ...

    In the other 35% when I get the first hook and only 1 gen done or 2, I don't camp and try to get a few chances ( best matche for me, lot more fun )

    To solve this like someone up sai "give actual rewards or make gameplay more rewarding and supportive of playing in a fun way for both sides. Trying to push for punishments or even mechanical limits to gameplay will just result in different kind of abuse"

    Make more rewarding for both sides chaces and hooks, so ppl dont get that afraid of being hooked, and slow down a bit making gens, and eeryone enjoy more.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233

    No camping isn't a problem, it just need to be more heavily punished especially when no survivors are near the hooked player. Yes some killer are better at camping but all killers can camp regardless or power or perks. Punish it and it wont be as common

  • chapizwow
    chapizwow Member Posts: 25

    you clearly are a main surv who don't even bothered in trying to be objective and understand where the usual camping comes from...i'll give you a hint, read the comment above you to get an idea.

    Solving camping isn't just about punishing camping and ######### everything else.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    JFC. Camping should never be punished. That's the suggestion of people who just want to spite Killers, not balance the game.

    Just give the camped Survivor BP for being camped, and make more Killer perks that encourage leaving the hook. Nothing else.

    'Punishments' are unneeded and every one suggested (from slow/stop the timer, to stop gaining BP, to giving the Survivor the Killer's BP, to making the Killer blind, or move slower, or attack slower) are just spite-filled, bad ideas.

  • TicTac
    TicTac Member Posts: 2,414

    If the killer facecamps the entire game and there is no interaction, its boring. But camping is not only that. Camping someone if he has only 10 seconds left for the next hook stage is a good play, which forces the survivor to rescue not always in the last second. If someone camps in the EGC, its more interesting for the survivor then a free unhook and everyone escape easily. So camping has its uses and is not always a problem.

    But facecamping the first person two minutes is boring for both sides. Or a camping Bubba. This things could be nerfed, but only if the nerf doesnt destroy other things.

  • TicTac
    TicTac Member Posts: 2,414

    If you camp with a M1-killer good survivor will always get the rescue. So its not a problem if some killer camp bc you can just rescue.

    Granted in solo que it happens rarely but thats a problem with solo communication and matchmaking.

  • Elena
    Elena Member Posts: 2,187

    As much as camping is complained about, in my experience it doesn't happen a lot. Maybe I'm just lucky, but for such a criticised tactic, it barely happens in my games.

  • MikaKim
    MikaKim Member Posts: 334

    @TicTac

    'I personally dont mind camping so much, but i can understand that a facecamping killer from the start is boring. But camping has its uses to win the game and you shouldnt limit the killer in his options too much.'

    And there it is, the justification of every killer main to camp, because the devs allow it.

    Calling a face camp 'boring' is certainly a more positive take.

    This is where you see the killer entitlement on the forums while watching the devs encourage that entitlement. While seeing said killers complain about entitled survivors on a forum dominated by killers. Oh the irony.

    gg devs gg

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562


    Rofl. Imagine thinking Killers using a tactic that's accepted by the devs is 'entitlement' while completely ignoring all the Survivor babies screaming for punishments & changed mechanics to cater to them & force the Killers to play by their made up rules.

    The real entitlement is the bad Survivor players demanding the game be changed because they don't like losing.

  • MikaKim
    MikaKim Member Posts: 334
    edited July 2021

    @TicTac

    'If you camp with a M1-killer good survivor will always get the rescue. So its not a problem if some killer camp bc you can just rescue.

    Granted in solo que it happens rarely but thats a problem with solo communication and matchmaking.'

    What even is this statement, a good killer that facecamps isn't going to slip up. What your alluding too is coordinated swf because in your VERY NEXT SENTENCE you admit its not the same for soloq and therefore swf groups that don't coordinate.

    Please post less but think about your content more. I'm 2 posts into you and already tired. How have you managed nearly 2k?

  • FrndlyChnswSalzmn
    FrndlyChnswSalzmn Member Posts: 705

    I have a solution for camping: make it so a Survivor, in the first hook phase, cannot be unhooked. No unhooky til phase 2. That gives their teammates time to do gens and the Killer reason to leave and start a new chase. Alternately, this could be a perk but baseline would be better.



    Entirely untrue. This is an insult Survivor mains sling to make themselves feel better and is not reflective of reality. Sometimes you must camp to have any chance at all regardless of your skill and people who don't actually play Killer don't understand that.


    Your 'fix' would make it so Survivors could just hook trade while slowly working gens; killers would have no way to win at all. Do you play Killer? Seriously, I want to know. Because I think if you did you wouldn't have suggested this silly idea.


    Agreed. Some people just can't stand losing or not having 'fun' for even a single moment.


    How much more punishment do you want? I already get points taken off my score even when I'm not camping because of small maps or ######### Survivors lurking around the hook, staying just far enough away that I have to give one of them the save if I try to chase. Points toward a pip that I deserve, but lose because they wanna be immersed and crouch nearby then scream 'camper!' which they would've had no idea about if they weren't crouching nearby watching me.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233

    Well like I said if no survivor is near then you get punished (except after all gens are done then its fine) honestly you loose such little points for camping, you only lose alot of points if no one trades etc. Camping atm only reduces a small amount of points from 1 category.

  • FrndlyChnswSalzmn
    FrndlyChnswSalzmn Member Posts: 705
    edited July 2021

    You are very wrong. it's not 'small' at all, especially on tiny maps where you can get the penalty while just patrolling on an upper floor.


    EDIT: In fact the existence of any penalty is unfair. Camping should be 'punished' by survivors getting saves or smashing gens and escaping. But that's not what they do and I know it because I run multiple detection perks and play Nemesis and Scratched Mirror Myers a lot. Survivors 'hide' nearby, not doing gens, waiting for the save. At times I've watched my crows and zombies just chase and BOOM non-stop near a hook. Survivors do not try to do gens when someone is hooked more often than not.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233

    I'm a survivor main because I dont think camping is an issue but should be punished if it's not after all gens are done? The above comment decides to give up, camping straight away will not help you get better, if you're camping when no one is near you arent doing anything or improving. My suggestion punishes killers that just sit at a hook even if no one is there, that shouldn't be rewarded lol

    It really is small, unless you're doing nothing but camping or "proxy" camping as people say, once again though it's one category and why should campers be rewarded?

    If everyone comes to help sure, but if you're camping that early then it's an issue on your gen and means they're off gens, if it's a 1 or two getting the save then its usually a trade.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,511

    Camping isn't an issue. It's a valid tactic and there are plenty of situations where being near the hook is the smart play.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    Camping. 👏 Should. 👏 Not. 👏 Be. 👏 Mechanically. 👏 Punished. 👏

    Survivors punish or reward it by doing gens or rushing the hook like lemmings. Those asking for some bullshit game-enforced punishment are demanding the devs cater to their made up rules and views on camping, tunneling, and slugging. They are thinking they are so entitled to an unhook that they want to force the Killer to give it to them, or be punished for daring to go against their made up rules.


    Here's the thing AGAIN:

    If there's a 'camping' proximity punishment; Survivor will abuse it. We know this because there WAS, and Survivors abused it.

    I don't care if some Survivor main scampers in and goes 'I don't see how it can be abused' because it was. This is not open for debate; It happened. It's a fact that Survivor abused a mechanic designed to punish Killers for 'camping' so badly, that it was quickly removed.

    Think about that; not throwing shade on the devs but do they quickly fix anything that's not immensely game-breaking? But the punishment was so abused that it went away so fast, it left a sonic boom in its wake.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,348

    My dude, you are hard defending a method that's literally the killer going 'I know I only did a third of the work, give me the full reward anyway'.

    Calling survivors entitled over wanting to play the game is... unique.

    Camping won't get fixed by 'incentives'. At least give the camped survivor the satisfaction that no one else dies.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    If Survivors do gens; the Killer gets 1, MAYBE 2 kills anyways. But Survivors stop doing gens and camp the hook nearby, then whine and snivel and blubber that Killers are winning with an 'OP' tactic.

    Survivors can literally punish camping, but decide the hook is more important, and demand the devs change the game to give them the unhook they want. That is entitlement. They think they are ENTITLED to every unhook they want.


    The Killer is allowed to kill Survivors. At any time. There's no arbitrary time limit (after a gen pops, after 4 gens pop, during EGC) on when he can kill except the bullshit Survivors keep inventing.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233

    Corrupt, thana, noed, bamboozle bubba can get 2 killer easy every game by camping the first hook and never moving, so yes play styles like that shouldn't be rewarded.

    But within my 4+years of play this game I cant say I have ever been punished by those points for being near a hook at end game or passing by one, kicking a gen etc. In fact most killers if they get a hook and a slug near can freely stand near the hook.

    Maybe you just camp and stay near hooks more than you should. Theres a time and a place, at the start or while no one is there mid trial is pointless and just bad game sense

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    Really? You're going to say CORRUPT rewards camping? it's a start of match perk that stops after 2 minutes, AND there is still gens Survivors can do.

    Thana rewards the Killer spreading out his damage with more slowdown than if he just camps. Nice try, though.

    NoED only procs in the end game and can easily be cleaned if the Killer camps. Again; nice try.

    Bamboozle only works if a Survivor goes for the unhook instead of..oh..doing gens or bones.


    Literally every perk you listed is actually made stronger if the Killer does NOT camp, or is negated if he DOES camp. More Survivor lies to invent problems. Just accept that camping is a valid tactic instead of inventing easily disputed lies.

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,432

    There should be more options for SURVIVORS outside of perks in order to counter hard-Camping.


    @Firellius

    Don't bother with that guy, he has a track record for calling survivors entitled in most of his posts along with calling players on here "survivor mains" even though he has 0 evidence or doesn't know what he is talking about.

  • bibibib8
    bibibib8 Member Posts: 843

    Let tell you how i will abuse your idea.

    I will always play in pair then when i get down and hook my friend will run to the hook to unhook me instantly with BT even if the hook timer become 30 sec you will need to hook me at least 15 time before i die.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233

    Camping doesn't make any perk stronger, corrupt buys early time to get the first down and camp, it makes survivors have to run to find a gen to waste time. Also encourages a survivor to try save because their gen was blocked.

    Thana just slows the game down, once again buying time. Time is important

    Noed. If they dint get the totems (which takes time) you get insta down M1. Even if you lose 5 gens by the first camped player dead you will know the location and like have noed

    Bamboozle just to push pallets maybe get a down faster.

    Camp all you want, just dont act like it should be rewarded. It's not skillful or entertaining.

    I PLAY KILLER. I just dont camp, it's why I'm rank 1 still 4 years later.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    'There should be more options for SURVIVORS outside of perks in order to counter hard-Camping.'


    So you're asking for Survivors to have built-in mechanics (the only thing outside of Perks) to counter what they CALL 'hard camping'.

    I'd stop calling Survivors entitled if they stopped asking for entitled crap like 'I want built-in mechanics that allow me to punish a totally legitimate play style because I don't like it'.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562
    edited July 2021

    If you're camping, they can do totems unopposed. I love this magical thinking that Survivors somehow will be prevented from cleansing NoEd while a Killer camps because of vague reasons they can't actually describe.

    Also; no one cares how you play Killer. That does not mean everyone has to play the same way. It's in no way some statement about how all Killers should play. So I don't know why you said it.

  • FrndlyChnswSalzmn
    FrndlyChnswSalzmn Member Posts: 705

    K man. I got it; you won't hear any facts that do not support your hypothesis. Know that if BHVR punishes camping, there will be no Killers. That's all; like it or not, punish playing to win > people stop playing > dead game.

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,432

    @Power_Guy

    Maybe you need to have a hard look in the mirror, because as far as I am concerned you're the only one who is coming off "entitled" in these forums.

    You see suggestions with legitimate reasons as "I just don't like it" because again the only entitled person here, is YOU.

    Goodbye

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,463

    In the 3700 hours I have played this game camping is not a problem at all. It very rarely happens and when it does ok? No biggie it's part of the game.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    Yeah, sure. I'm entitled because you say so, while you, and others, demand the game be changed to enforce your Survivor's Rulebook. But demanding the game be changed because you want it is not being entitled. Sure.

    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


    I see Survivors pitching temper tantrums. There has been 0 'legitimate reasons' other than 'Because we say so'. But again; entitled Survivors think what they want is how it should be.

    Bye! 👍️

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233

    Only fact iv seen is players want to be rewarded for camping nothing else. I must be playing killer wrong then for 4 odd years... funny how I'm always rank 1 though

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,432

    @EntitySpawn

    You're not. Welcome to the killer club that doesn't need to use those strats to get their ranks. 🤷💅

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233

    Kills mean nothing, but probably I win most games as all killers. I tend to go for hooks than kills so most games is 10-12 hooks. No one is saying play fair, play to win but dont say camping the first person or camping while no one is near is skillful when it's not.

    I personally think you need to calm down a little lol

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,348

    If Survivors do gens; the Killer gets 1, MAYBE 2 kills anyways

    This is the exact problem.

    The killer chooses to play as little as they can. It shouldn't be a '1, maybe 2' scenario (not counting NOED which can easily make things worse), it should be a 'maybe 1, but definitely nothing more' scenario. It needs to not even be close to a viable strat. Even by your own admission, it is either dangerously close or already there.

    And as I keep saying, it's a matter of overall balance as well since there's a ton of things BHVR can't do without also, as collateral damage, making camping more effective.

    You want gen speeds slowed down? You want 'second chance perks' nerfed?

    Tough.

    Camping exists. Anything killers want is invalidated by that single fact.

  • chapizwow
    chapizwow Member Posts: 25

    i'm not saying camping shouldn't be punished, i'm saying you are not providing any solution to help them do otherwise by just punishing camping, because the reason behind the problem doesn't lay on the action itself or the idea that "they gave up". Just punishing camping won't help them improve either, just like the actual surv meta doesn't help survs get better at the game.

    People only complain about a certain issue and think prohibiting that 1 thing, solves everything....while the issue is much more complex than most people care to admit.

  • Power_Guy
    Power_Guy Member Posts: 1,562

    Rofl. Just because you dislike camping does not mean it needs to be a 'maybe 1, but nothing more' strat, dude.

    Christ, the Survivor mains on this forum seem to be blessed with this invincible conviction that their made up rules need to be hard rules.


    Fact: Camping is a strat. Camping is allowed.

    Also fact: Survivors can't stand losing, and want to prevent Killers from winning, so they keep whining like children about how 'unfair' it is that they can be removed from the game.

    Boo hoo. The fact that the Killer can kill comes as a surprise to NO ONE except whiny Survivors who think the game revolves around them.


    Camping is fine. Reward the Survivor with 'Distraction' BP. End of story. Stop ######### whining.