General Discussions
General Discussions
Just admit it doesn't work.
Behavior, please, for the sake of the community and everyone involved, admit that SBMM(MMR) Is not gonna work and it is so very clear all we've seen these past tests is more examples of failure and now you guys cannot even get the system working properly. Seriously, just give it up.
Comments
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You never get something right the first time, it takes trail and error to get something right. MMR has worked successfully in other games and will work successfully in this game unless the Devs take your advice and just give up.
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This implies that the community as a whole is anti-MMR, a lot of us are for it.
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It needs to work because rank based matchmaking is crap.
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It won't work in this game, though how do you determine skill accurately in a game where skill is easily flawed by many different factors the difference between those games and Dead by Daylight they were meant for competitive. Dead by Daylight isn't.
Implying it works throws all problems its going to bring under the rug.
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I'm for a better matchmaking system but this isn't it.
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I think a much simpler fix would be to make pipping as survivor a bit harder, and drop everyone 10 ranks instead of 1 color at reset. Red ranks get jammed with survivors of all skill levels because its too easy to rank up and reset barely does anything.
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How do you know it won't work? The tests actually worked fine to me, I had good Killers and good teammates. By good, I mean, good from my own spectrum.
They were all closest to my skill level than what I have with the current rank matching system.
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How do you know? Have you been coding it? Do you have any idea how it works? What would be a better matchmaking system? Be specific.
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Name any competitive game with MMR that has these factors. RNG and Unbalanced Maps and Perks I will await your response of you finding a game with MMR that has these factors and it must be a popular competitive game. That's how i know.
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Check my reply above if you can find the same you will prove me wrong i'll await your response.
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Don't forget simple things like if the survivors spawn spread out or together, if someone spawns on top of a lit totem, etc. Even something as simple as the coin flip of the killer picking the correct corner of the map to start a chase at the beginning or not.
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That falls more under RNG don't worry i got you.
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No, you said you wanted better matchmaking.
Matchmaking requires data with which to determine a match. A MMR, Matchmaking rating.
You can't have matchmaking without MMR. Even our current matchmaking has it, your rank is your MMR.
You're just jumping on a buzzword bandwagon without any understanding of what it means.
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Ranks are crap not rank based matchmaking. The problem is ranks are meaningless cause it's too easy to rank up in the begining, which boosts alot of people to the high ranks they don't deserve. And then to avoid those people who shouldn't be high ranks some people start deranking, which leads to stuff like " yeah green ranks is where you should be cause it's fun" Yeah it's fun but do you wanna stay green ranks forever? Don't you wanna go higher?
So at this point you have high rank noobs destroying the game for high rank skilled players, mostly on survivor, hence why the SoloQ cries all the time, and low rank gods who abuse new low rank killers. Creating all the chaos in Rank based Match Making.
but what is MMR if not just another way to Rank you? There's still gonna be a margin for which the system has to say this is still a fair match, so MMR is just another Rank Range...
We don't need a whole new system we just need the current system to have meaning.
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Except there's no accurate way to determine the skill of an individual in this game as opposed to games specifically designed to be competitive. There are far too many variables, far too much RNG, and it's an asymmetrical game. It just doesn't work. This is, by definition, the kind of game meant to be fun, when ironically it isn't, but still. "Survivor party game" as the developers would call it. It'd be like putting MMR in Mario Party.
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You do realize what you just said is false correct we've had other matchmaking systems prior to MMR you do realize MMR isn't the only matchmaking system out there correct? We've had the bloodpoint system which in my opinion a little tuning and it would work perfectly we had the Emblem system which well was dogwater.
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At this point it's a detriment to their career to stay at BHVR. Imagine trying to get another job and having 3 years experience working there, they'll think you don't know how to code anything.
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I dunno, even if it never works perfectly I enjoy the tests and MMR going on and off. Outside of chapter releases the game is pretty stale and same-y so it spices things up at least.
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You're right, except from the "we don't need a whole new system" part.
The changes they want to make to ranks are too indepth and complicated. No less because they are uncoupling it from your Killer rank so that each individual killer gets their own MMR, and also to keep it hidden so that players can't work it out and game the system to smurf.
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While i see what you're saying you should also keep in mind most players in the game want this game to progress and continue to get bigger not because of DLC's but because its a good game and right now matchmaking and the idea of MMR is taking this game backwards over forwards.
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I personally have very little hope for a skill-based matchmaking in an RNG heavy game.
But yes, the current state is far from ideal.
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Why does it have to be a popular competive game?
A game doesnt have to be popular to be good and balanced.
Competive shrek exists..
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100% agreed.
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I don’t think MMR is the problem, tbh. Like I said, the game gets stale quickly. Reworks of anything are months (if not years) in the making and then the change will be something like a 5% number increase. The lore is just bad. Unbalanced and frustrating perks, maps and mechanics stay unaddressed for years, and don’t even get me started on bugs that persist for months upon months. The grind is insane and gets bigger every 3 months.
And it’s not like any of this stuff got worse when they started working on MMR so it’s not like it’s the cause.
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I don't really care about this mmr. On or not, the matchmaking is gonna suck anyway.
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The thing is there are ways to mediate matchmaking and make it better the problem is Behavior is not trying to put the time into doing it.
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We have a current system that doesn't work or maybe doesn't exist, I'm not sure which.
Why shouldn't Behavior try and put something into place and MMR has been shown time and time again to work. Maybe it won't work but isn't it really their entire job to fix things that aren't working.
Your basically telling the Developers that everyone is fine with you putting out content and not fixing problems with the game.
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BHVR does put time in stuff... that will make them money. The rest, they work on really slow.
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That's not at all what was implied im for a new system but this isn't going to work there's factors that make it impossible and yes MMR has shown progress in games WITHOUT RNG and unbalanced crap to that you're right however apart from it working in other games its going to fail here. In order for MMR to work you can't have RNG because it completely takes away the point of MMR it can easily mask someones skill because it can easily hurt the other side and the same goes both ways.
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Usually when something is right for a game even when it doesn't fully work out right away people can tell that its something that would make the game better/more fun, with dbd we could see it with chapters like oni and blight where everyone had a blast on both sides, and even though the ptbs didn't have the full picture it at least felt like something that should be added to dbd
I can't say that in the slightest about sbmm, I haven't had a good experience with it yet and the amount that I feel its being forced down my throat doesn't make me want to accept it, it just makes me hunker down more and have a worse experience every single time even if the actual experience isn't that bad the perceived experience just keeps getting worse due to how forced it is and how much the system doesn't really fit a game like dbd.
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Yeah, it is not gonna work, because you said so. The mighty all knowing expert in everything. How come you are wasting your life on DBD instead of being the CEO of the next tech giant?
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If at first you fail, try again. And again. And again. .....And again. maybe if you fail a ton of times don't try again, actually.
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First of all you have no idea what you're talking about second of all i can tell you've never played a competitive game in your life if you truly believe MMR and RNG can coexist. Lastly coming at me passive aggressive isn't gonna make your point and it shows if you need to come off like this you can't disprove my points.
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A game that doesn't let you know if you win or lose shouldn't have an mmr system.
What is a win in dbd? No one knows we all have a different definition for winning on both sides.
And I don't want to wait 40 min like I did before with Oni with the old mmr test.
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Thank you exactly agreed.
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How can I disagree with you when you are 100% right? RNG + variants + asymetrical can't coexist with MMR, I don't even play comp games (like R6S or OW) to understand that
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You didn't make any points that's why I replied in a similar fashion.
Software engineers are working hard on this SBMM, but you just come and say "it won't work guys, i know it".
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there's plenty of RNG in Dota2 and that game has the largest prize pool in all of gaming. Chaos Knight is literally built on RNG. Ogre Magi as well. He purposely sounds like a slot machine because you don't know if you're going to cast something Once, or Four times.
Also, League of Legends, Runes, and Summoner Spells.
Since it's Inception, Flash has and always will be the most powerful summoner spell for 90% of situations. What does that sound like? the perks that are used the most frequently by both killers and survivors in DBD. They work, they aren't niche and they are powerful. Wow, it's the same thing.
There will always be runes that surpass others, hell they got rid of the old rune system because they couldn't figure out how balance hundreds of runes. Runes in its current form, while far simpler, still has its shining stars that make other runes appear obsolete. Kleptomancy had to be removed due to it's strength. The illusion of choice is a trait that both DBD and LoL share.
League now also has plants that spawn randomly that can affect terrain traversal, sustain, and vision. Oh, and the dragons spawn at random as well. Never know what type of major buff you'll get.
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It worked just fine for me in every test. If you're having problems with it, you should report those. The devs want to fix the problems you have, hence the long time it's taking to implement MMR, but they can't if you don't tell them your problems.
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Since I started playing this game I've seen people complaining left and right how matchmaking is terrible. Now the devs are finally doing something about it and you guys are "meeeeeh, we don't want it".
You know there's something called trial and error, right? We've never seen MMR working as they intended to do yet, so why are you bashing it?
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Man I'd hate to play with you on any team game if your mentality when something goes a little sideways is to call it quits/ragequit.
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Clearly you don't read comments I made more than enough valid points also just because software engineers work on something doesn't make it concrete. Again my point still stands MMR and RNG can't work together and haven't.
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Giving criticism is bashing now interesting logic.
This makes no sense someone gives a different opinion than yours so that makes their mentality bad what is this dissolving into these sneak comments are weird.
What happened to being Civil on this forum this kinda stuff never use to happen now these passive aggressive comments go rampant on this forum if you can't be Civil don't comment its that simple.
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What you don't mention is while that is small amounts of RNG they still are in a game that is built competitively and are balanced for them again this point isn't exactly 100% accurate. You can't compare a game that changes their meta every 2 months to a game that has the same stale meta for years and you can't deny Leagues gone through several changes in its time. Also while there may be a tiny amount of RNG its not on the scale of Dead by Daylight and same with the other games mentioned.
Lastly The spawns are those things are known by the players mean while for an example Survivor spawns can be so random at time its hard for Killers to know the spawns to the tee. Again this isn't a fair comparison
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You're not giving constructive criticism. You're literally telling them to "just give it up" which is DESTRUCTIVE criticism, which doesn't help anyone.
Imagine if you're trying to make a project that takes tons of work and successive failures to achieve, and then someone just comes and says "lol just give it up dude". Would that be helpful at all? Jeez.
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And a lot are vehemently against it
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It’s pointless I say they should just forget about it.
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Its not a sneak comment, you didn't provide anything constructive...didn't argue any points, and just said "give up". Then had the audacity to say the whole community doesn't want it when that couldn't be further from the truth. Again if you carry that same attitude in team games, you'd be a nightmare to play with.
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every option looks awful, being honest.
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You don't need to be an expert or work in the same field as someone to give an opinion on something
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