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Should select killer perks be temporarily disabled while any survivor is cursed?
The obvious one I’m going for here is Tinkerer + Ruin + Undying. This is sometimes miserable to go against as a solo survivor. Yeah, I know about the myriad of totem counters. But should players be forced to ignore a large portion of perk variety because issues like this?
It was initially smart the way Ruin was changed to remove the damn awful, overbearing synergy with Pop (Although I personally much prefer to deal with old Ruin), but now I’m wondering if all that needed to be done for balancing is have certain killer perks have a stipulation where their effect can/can’t be used if a survivor is/isn’t cursed?
Using Tinkerer as an example, it could be that the moment any survivor gets the “cursed” notification from any Hex, Ruin or otherwise, Tinkerer remains disabled unless that Hex (or Hexes) is cleansed.
Thoughts?
Comments
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This is such a heavy nerf to Killer perks. You go from having synergies to having 1-2 perks work while 1-2 perks are turned off. Then those hexes are cleansed and now the Killer gets his other 2 perks.
No. I'm sorry but this would make some synergies completely useless for no reason other than 'I don't like it' or 'I think it's too powerful'.
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I don't think this is a good idea.
Nerfing one of the strongest combinations in existence (though not invincible) without any sort of compensation doesn't sound like "balance" to me, at least not in this specific scenario.
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Game is easy enough as it is for survivors. The problem with solo is matchmaking and lack of killer players. Survivors of decent, not great, but decent skill, can beat most killers. Bad survivors can do well just by running in a straight line a dropping a pallet or two, I should know, I can't loop but I can run across the map long enough for a hook save and multiple heals or even a gen to pop.
There is no need to nerf the synergy of killer perks, especially when it comes to hexes since they're easily countered if survivors would take the time to do totems.
Totems are high risk, high reward, no need to water down their power when they can be taken out of the match within 20 seconds of the start.
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So you want to nerf all hexes for the action of one: Ruin.
Yet you don't see this from a fundmental flaw in your idea before we address anything else.
Also you want to nerf a combo of perks that can literally be disabled(Hexes) or are directly controlled by the survivor when they activate(Tinkerer)!?
You ALREADY have near complete control over the killer's perks with that set up and you want it to be nerfed!?
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But that already happened with Pop & Ruin. Pop already now cannot be used with Ruin. Pop can just be “back up” if Ruin is cleansed. Why can’t a system be in place to make Tinkerer the same?
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You're trying to maintain perk variety for survivor while limiting it for killer?
I'd say make at least one chest to have a guaranteed spawn of a map with the addon that tracks totems, because totems on maps like Midwich or Dead Dawg are ROUGH to find.
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I don't think that's a good idea.
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Not a good idea. Because then killers will be limited to only totems builds, or non totems builds. Which would be unfair.
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I think that’s probably a stretch. Killers still run pop with ruin
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Do bones
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I don't think a perk should just straight up not work just because you're running two other perks (Like your example, I don't think Tinkerer should stop working when someone runs Ruin Undying).
I think the only exception I have with this is SWFs shouldn't be able to stack what are normally considered to be 'Hard Meta Perks', like DS+UB+DH on four people. But in the same breath, I do definitely agree that running things like 3/4 gen slowdown perks on a decent Killer on an average map can be really overbaring on Survivors who aren't in a SWF due to the amount of communication they require you to have to counter them.
Tbh, I think Killer meta perks are fine as-is currently, but we do definitely need to see a change in both the amount of information solo queue has at base, and the way that meta perks are handled in the way of SWFs. Mix that with adjustments to spawns for all players, and then I think we can talk about changing around slowdown perks.
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You're using a fundamental quirk in one perk combo to justify nerfing killers entirely? The reason you can't use Pop while Ruin is active is because you can't kick a regressing generator. Ruin makes generators regress while not being worked on. Even if you don't have Ruin equip or it's been cleansed and you go up to a regressing generator you can't kick it, even if you have Pop.
Tinkerer activates when a generator reaches 70% completion. It's that simple. Not much you can do to counter it besides power through it. Have someone distract the killer and finish it. If they get hooked or die, it was a noble sacrifice.
My point is that it seems like flawed logic to think that a perk like Tinkerer should in any way be influenced by hexes, let alone Ruin.
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Only because they decide not to run undying and most of the time when i see that combo (ruin/pop) killer have bbq and corrupt so they dont use tinkerer.
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best way to make killers quit the game right here.
it's hard enough killing survivors with 4 perks, imagine no perks.
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There is no reason for hex perks to disable other killer perks. Just because a combo is not "fun" to face does not mean it should be prevented from existing.
I played a Doctor game last night for the Coulphobia challenge (Coulphobia, Thana, Sloppy, and Distressing with Calm addon) and one of the survivors used The Game map offering. I can't imagine that was a fun game for them either.
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Not a fan of risk reward perks keeping the risk the same but removing almost all the reward with synergy removed
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i think a much better idea is to rework perks to incentivize better synergy and thus better variation. completely destroying killers because of a meta is pointless, there will always be a meta.
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No, I don't use hex perks as I'll take something that's guaranteed to be useful the entire match, but from a survivor perspective they should be troublesome enough that Survivors would rather cleanse them than work through it.
The less opposition I feel from the killer, the more boring the match becomes.
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The only way I'd be on board with this idea is if many of the weaker Killer perks got buffed and or reworked to be better and worth using to help break up the meta or pave way for new synergies and combinations.
But still, I'm not sure how to feel about this limitation in regards to Hexes. What if this would disable fun, niche perks like Dark Devotion just because survivors are cursed with Ruin?
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How long have you played DBD? (Sincere question).
Do you remember one of the additional fundamental reasons they changed Ruin?
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I didn’t say ALL perks. I said SELECT. I.e. just a small amount. And I’m not suggesting (for example) Tinkerer would be disabled until the end of the match. It would reactivate once survivors are no longer afflicted with a curse.
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Where is this “destroying killers” coming from.
Where in my post did I say “let’s completely gut every single aspect of every single killer”?!
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That’s only if such a stipulation were placed on DD. I don’t think combo’ing DD and Ruin has ever been complained about, or seen as unbalanced together.
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If anything I guess they could make it so the gen has to fully regress before Tinkerer can be activated by it again. But honestly the killers running those efficiently tend to be high mobility killers that probably would've destroyed my team anyway. More often than not when I go against a killer running Tinkerer/Ruin combo they are not putting enough pressure on gens for it to work out for them and they're dropping chases to run to the gen that just set off Tinkerer to try and get there before it finishes. I've had Tinkerer alerting the killer save me while injured way too many times in a chase. 😂
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I’m sorry but this is a horrible idea considering the fact killer perks are way more risk reward and/or require more effort to activate than survivor perks do.
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no
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What effort does a killer require to activate Ruin + Undying?
Step 1: equip perks
Step 2: act on the information it gives to chase survivors off of the gen.
Where is the effort part in activating these perks?
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Ruin Undying is risk reward. If both totems get cleansed they get deactivated. Compare that to DS UB, this combo has no risk reward because no matter what a killer does, survivor gets away for free.
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hex perks are already slowly not being used anymroe with how easy it is to find totems.
you just making it so no killer will touch hexes again
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As soon as exhaustion is a shared debuff, sure
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Ruin was not changed because it worked well with pop.
It was changed because old ruin was a pain for mew players or players who couldnt hit skill checks.
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1 exhaustion per survivor lol
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NO! your basicly asking for perks to be band to appease survivors not likeing somthing. Well if thats the case hook rescues should cause the exaughston status effect bc im tired of survivors SB or DH away, and dropping pallets should injure survivors bc its miserable when someone stuns you. Do you see how stupid this actually sounds...
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I can get your idea, but a straight up Nerf to Tinkerer would be a better and easier Move.
I mean, the obvious Combo is Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer, which is a very easy to use Build while Tinkerer giving information a la "Just go there for free Regression" as long as Ruin is up. And IMO in this combination, Tinkerer is the biggest problem (even before the Undying-Nerf).
However, I cannot think of any other combinations where a Perk might have to be disabled to not become oppressive and if there are some, it would be a very strange system and confusing. A straight up Nerf would be easier to understand.
Like, it would be really complicated for new Killer players as well. Sometimes your Perk suddenly stops working and you dont really know why.
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Ruin and undying are bound to totems and these are really not hard to find unless you are in rpd or lery's. You don't even need a totem perk because the totem spots are just so bad. So no I don't think your change is a good idea. Just go totem hunting, it is not as impossible as some people claim
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Three 100% counterable perks btw
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Honestly the only thing i would change about this combo is the aura reading part from Undying. It's a bit unecessary IMO. Especially now that killer just got the Lethal Pursuer perk ^^
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True I was just throwing out a random perk. Idk it seems weird to put a limitation like this only on specific "oppressive" perks though. I should have clarified but yeah. Let's take DS for example, even to this day it can be paired with Unbreakable for a combo that a lot of killers still complain about (I don't have a problem with it personally). I think it's okay to have very powerful perks that can be used together in ways that they compliment each other..
If anything Tinkerer should be looked at and other, lesser used perks buffed to make them more appealing to use and break up the meta. I'm kind of shocked Tinkerer doesn't have a cool-down of some sort whereas many other Killer perks that have cooldowns would be so so much better if they had a lower cool-down.
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Well you have twins as your pfp so I'm not shocked you have a flawed logic hahahaha
Joke btw, but I have to heavily disagree with your logic.
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Undying needs the Aura read for two reasons:
- to have something which justifies three Perk Tiers (the distance goes up by 1m each Tier)
- and more important: To have the Perk do something on its own. If it would only replace a broken Hex-Totem, it would not be useful without any other Hexes
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i don't think it was ever made to work alone, Open Handed for example is not working by itself but need you to eqquip an aura reading perk to be effective.
Welp the aura reading part could be changed for an other effect like : after cleansing a Hex totem, it's effect stays active for extra X/Y/Z seconds. (like 10/20/30)
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