A REAL Anti-Tunnel Perk
I have no issues with tunneling, but I do feel a perk should exist to counter it. I suggested it in another post, but I’ll make an OP here.
Fight or Flight: “If you’re in a chase with the killer for more than 30 seconds without losing a health state Fight or Flight activates. Giving the survivor 14% Haste effect until the chase ends”.
That way survivors must give up a perk slot to use this situational tactic. If you’ve been chased for more than 30 seconds without getting hurt I do consider it a tunnel. As the killer is stacking Bloodlust to get you. If they notice that you’re too fast to catch they’ll be discouraged to chase, or at least break the chase to start again. Giving you more distance. 30 seconds is basically 1 gen if people double up on it. It’s like having Hope and Blood Pact at end game collapse. Unless the killer has ranged attacks, or some mobility they can’t really get you. Most killers that tunnel are M1 killers like Ghost Face, Freddy, Myers, WRAITH, and WRAITH. Don’t forget WRAITH. The Tunnel King. Even then Wraith can uncloak to remove this buff, but he can’t hurt you while cloaked either. If you have a vault, pallet, or flashlight you can fend against the Tunnel King. So it’s fair.
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sometimes a chase will be at least 30 seconds and the killer may not be able to get the hit (whether that be they miss a lot or they just cant get close).
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Or maybe just git gud and you wouldn't have an issue being tunneled.
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This doesn't solve the problem. Trapper, Wraith, Billy, Nurse, Huntress, Hag, Doctor, Freddy, Spirit, Legion, Plague, Demmodoggo, Oni, Slinger,
buttPyramid Head, Blight, Victor, The Jokester, Nemesis and Pinhead all can just cancel the perk when it triggers and go back to being bad and not landing hits within 30 seconds.0 -
Yea no, this would break the game for high level matches. This idea is in no way fair for the killer, when most maps provide plenty of loops that will allow a survivor to easily waste the killers time. Game is easy enough already for survivors, it doesn't need to get easier.
It's really not hard to waste 30 seconds of a killers time, especially at the start of a match. Heck, The moment I see the killer coming for me, I take off and just hold shift+W and drop pallets and vault windows. By the time I get hurt, a gen usually pops.
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why are we giving survivors a bloodlust perk? The activation requirements are also ridiculous.
I'm down for perks that discourage tunneling, and I personally have been enjoying Lucky Break more than Decisive, but I don't think this perk is it.
If anything, I could see this perk tilting killers and make them want to tunnel you even more. If all 4 survivors are running it, then you're most definitely going to be face camped.
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Yes let me just get better at outplaying spirit
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14% haste....... Imagine 4 survivors using it with the current hold W plays...... Not busted in any way not at all!! Sounds extremely fair and balanced.
While we are at it, give survivors a chance to kill the killer also another perk to uninstall the game from the killer's pc.
You must not play killer at all if you think a survivor movement speed increase by 14% is fair.
Just the fact that holding W before entering a chase takes about 30 seconds for the killer to catch up, now hit them another 30 seconds, boom your perk activates instead of taking 30 seconds it can take about 2 minutes just for the killer to catch up, fair and balanced!.
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If the killer decides to chase you. Unless he changes targets or you manage to juke him. He is GOING to catch you. The game is not balanced around 1v1. It's 1v4. If you get tunneled it sucks. But if you wasted enough of the killers time you effectively won the match for your team.
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This is a troll right?
No one seriously thinks being in a chase for 30s = tunneled. Right?
Post edited by Seraphor on8 -
Hope is 7% putting survivors at 107ms. It's not a perk you see often because it's situational, but there's a reason it's restricted to endgame. Don't view it as 7% extra speed or even 0.28m/s extra speed, view it as basically cutting the speed advantage a 115ms killer has over a survivor in half instead. And that's just half as powerful as your proposed 114ms survivor speed.
And besides, I'm fundamentally opposed to making ANY more perks rely on "while in a chase". It can be cheesed in all sorts of ways, old Legion is perhaps the biggest example but experienced survivors can also break chase at the right time to vault more than 3 times in one spot as well as entity blockers only count vaults while in chase. Don't use chase status as an activation or deactivation condition any more than absolutely necessary unless the system gets improved.
And lastly: a killer simply chasing a survivor for a long time has little to do with tunneling on its own. If anything this perk would be the most powerful at the very start of the match. All pallets are up, just play super safe until you get the speedboost and you're practically uncatchable unless the killer has a power that can bypass actually getting close to you and hitting you.
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You’re all saying it empowers the survivor way too much, and makes it unfair as is. This same logic can also be used in reverse.
“If the Survivors are any good they can dodge the killer the whole time even if they’re tunneled. Git gud mate!” - Not if they’re relying solely on Bloodlust until they catch you. Not if they attack right after you’ve been unhooked. Not if they’re ignoring all objectives just to get you. Regardless of how much time the killer wasted it’s still not fun for the person being tunneled.
Reverse Logic: “If the killer is ANY good you should be able land an attack within the first 30 seconds, and then down them within another 30 seconds. So the killer should simply git gud.”
Usually when I’m tunneled it’s HEAVY. Like, the WHOLE match. They’re using Bloodlust T2+ to get me, and they are avoiding pallets altogether (Too far to be stunned, and will never kick them). They simply get their nitro boosts until they catch me. Then the moment I’m off the hook they repeat this process. Even if all the gens are done it’s still not fun for that one person. No different than survivors bullying the killers. It’s not fun.
Again. The power only works if they never received any damage, maybe even modify it so that it activates when killers GET Bloodlust T2. Trickster, Huntress, and Deathslinger can damage you before that. Blight, Nurse, Spirit, HillBilly, etc? Their mobility negates this altogether if you know how to use them..! Clown? He has Invigorate so he should able to hit a player BEFORE that power even kicks in! Essentially MOST killers are able deal some type of damage within 30 seconds of a chase without needing Bloodlust…! Rendering this ability useless. Especially if it only kicks in after Bloodlust T2. You should’ve caught them after getting Bloodlust T1!!!
C’mon folks… If you can’t hit a single player after Bloodlust T2 kicks in (30 Seconds?) then I dunno what to tell any of you people tbh. Just saying 😂 . If you guys all have thousands and thousands of hours as you say, and you do this to get people…. Not for a meme build. Like actual meta…. Well… I have mere hundreds, and I am never pressured to do this. Never. Ever. Normally I get a down within a minute without any Bloodlusts. Unless I’m abusing “Tunneling Trickster” build that needs No Way Out stacks (Being toxic towards one person typically pressures the others to take 1 down for the bullied person. So I get all 4 stacks). Once he gets his 4 stacks he stops tunneling. 🤷🏽♂️ 😂
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Tldr
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There already is a perk to stop tunneling.
It's called Bond and actually helping your teammate with bodyblocks instead of shaking your fist safely away from the killer
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That's assuming you can rely on team mates to do this. Solo ques can be a coin toss on how useful your team mates will be.
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If you're going to make it an anti tunnel perk instead make it so if you're chased by killer within a time of being unhooked you can't be downed until chase ends. That I imagine would put a stop to tunneling.
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the problem is that you never included a way to turn it off. a fair balance would be to cut the speed boost in half, roll it into no miter and make it so only you can pick yourself up of the ground
maybe an initial sprint burst when the chase kicks in, followed by exhausted too so you can't chain this and lithe and sprint burst
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who considers being chased for 30 seconds tunneling? When did THAT become the definition of tunneling?
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Yeah, I'll just git gud when I just got unhooked and the killer comes straight back to tunnel me. Thank you for that very helpful post :)
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You're welcome.
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It's amazing how old DS was a perfect anti tunnel perk (just don't tunnel killer main, there are three other people to chase!) but now that you can't blatantly abuse it all of a sudden we need a "real" anti tunnel perk. Gtfo
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Oh? Basically it would kick in after BL2.
Long story short: If you can’t catch someone after using Bloodlust T2 you should just cut your game off. Simple.
All it should take is T1 to get some blood. 15 seconds! 30 seconds of no damage/powers T2 before it activates? Ranged killers wouldn’t care about this perk. Demo lunges. Mobile killers also don’t care. Clown should be invigorating himself while intoxicating survivors as to close gaps. No Bloodlust necessary. Nurse? C’mon. Same as Spirit, Wraith, Blight, Doctor, etc. Most killers constantly use their powers to catch survivors. So Bloodlust would hardly ever activate against survivors. If you’re at Bloodlust T2 you’re tunneling. No ifs, ands, or buts. 😂
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Btw I never had an issue with tunneling. It’s just one of the few things people gripe about, meaning something should be done imo.
Killers also need more perks and add ons that penalize gen repair speed. Heck, make it so whenever a survivor is injured they get a repair speed penalty (Update Resilience to negate the penalty while adding +9%). People shouldn’t be able to do anything as fast if they’re in constant pain. However, that’s another topic. 🤷🏽♂️
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People always have their own definition of tunneling. Some say it’s when the killers don’t do any other objective. Others say it’s when they’re attacked right off the hook. Some say when they’re the only ones being targeted the whole match.
To me none of this is actually tunneling. I only feel “tunneled” when the killer relying on Bloodlust to catch me and only me. They aren’t chasing anyone else. They aren’t messing with any pallets, or clicking any buttons other than their attack button when they get close. If they’re actively using powers, kicking pallets, etc. That’s just a long *** chase. At least to me.
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I want an anti-tunnel perk that is just an AI that automatically writes a hate comment to whoever tunnels me. It feels like a perk this community would adore.
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Or just stick the middle finger up when you’re hooked if the killer had to “tunnel”. Add that feature.
In all honesty I never had a problem being “tunneled”. Now if the killer wasted all their time to get me and then no generators got done... THEN I’ll be heated for sure! POTATOES!! My final words. Lol
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Mmmkay, let me try to think of something (mostly survivor-sided probably, so I'd like to hear killers' opinions on whether something like that would work).
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This perk should activate after being unhooked and not under any other circumstance (chases are not tunneling).
The one that goes for the save must have this perk equipped for it to work (it's not a self-defense perk).
For the rescuer, there would be a 3-second "sprint burst" and the exposed status for 30 seconds, and for the unhooked:
Instead of a 14% boost, you'd have a similar effect to Borrowed Time that will deactivate as soon as:
- You are out of the chase (encouraging killers not to attempt the chase)
- You perform any action to make the game progress (healing, gens, totems, chests, clicky clicky flashlights, any kind of interaction)
This perk does not activate if the EGC has already started.
Collision does not work while inside the terror radius of the killer for the first 5 seconds (no bodyblocking).
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While I appreciate the idea, there's a really, really good reason that there's no 'True Anti-Tunnel' perk in the game. Tunneling just isn't something a Survivor can change, and all they can do is stall. A perk like this wouldn't really solve the issue of the Survivor getting tunneled barely getting any points, or their fellow solo survivors not doing gens to try to give their team a chance out. To add to it, it would be way too punishing on M1 Killers. That's a big haste effect to put on a Survivor, especially after only 30 seconds of chase- that isn't a hard thing to ask for against an M1 Killer, even at a 50/50 loop unless you get super unlucky, super greedy, or just have a potato moment. Also, it relies on the chase mechanic similar to Blood Lust, which means that Killers could also just either negate it by breaking chase themselves or the Survivor could get screwed out of having it because they broke chase themselves to counter Blood Lust. (And all this doesn't even begin to cover how haste effects like this can have such a major impact on extending loops.)
Idk, I just think the concept doesn't really cover the real issues with tunneling and would be far too harsh on many of the roster. Imho I think the best thing they could do to counter Tunneling would be to just make Kindred Basekit for Survivors. Would give them a little bit of support for understanding what is happening to their teammates or what to expect, while not handing them the same amount of direction and planning as VC SWFs.
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But then players would abuse that too. If it’s endurance they’ll body block all day.
The main thing is like one person said. There’s no real definition of tunneling. So the devs need figure out a way to define “Tunneling” within the game, and then build around that definition. Everyone has their own interpretation of tunneling. I think that’s the main issue. I say make this “Anti-Tunnel Perk” like Mettle of Man so that there’s multiple prerequisites. Say if you’re hooked twice within X amount of seconds “Fight or Flight” would then activate until the next chase ended. Then it would deactivate after a chase, and after being fully healed. Since you can only be hooked twice it would only proc during your death hook phase. Players can’t abuse it right away because they’d be putting themselves at death hook just to activate it.
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Possibly even make more it like Better Together (Whenever someone is downed and you’re doing a gen you see everyone for a couple of seconds). In this instance you see your allies auras for 5-10 seconds after the person is put on the hook.
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I’m really just brainstorming for the most part, and I was hoping someone could add their own opinion to build upon this topic. As opposed to being all condescending about a situation like most people. People like that wouldn’t be happy even if the devs solved all the problems. They’d find something else to gripe about. Lol
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I consider it when the killer runs right back to hook after an unhook usually in hopes of getting an easy second hook.
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Eh, I go back to hook for the unique hook. Is that like... Reverse tunneling? Or just tunneling with a different ending?
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OP has clearly never played in red ranks where the survivors actually know how to loop tiles. This is one of the most busted perk suggestions I have ever seen. Survivors, of all things, do not need buffs. Tunnelling is a strategy in the game, and while you may not like it, it's something you just have to deal with. The same way gen-rushing with Prove Thyself is also a strategy.
Imagine the complete outrage if they had a killer perk that caused gens to be blocked off by the Entity for 30 seconds when it reached half progress. That's basically the killer equivalent of what you are suggesting. You even admitted to having "mere hundreds" of hours in game, which is evidently not enough for you to understand enough about the game to make suggestions like this, and then you laugh and shrug everyone else off because they're saying it wouldn't work. If you aren't open to changing your mind, why even post a discussion in the first place?
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Yes but that's not really the games fault.
when you get tunneled and your teammates didn't do anything to stop it then telling your teammates what they did wrong will help a lot more then getting angry at the killer
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That's not tunnelling, that's just a long chase. Tunnelling is where the killer immediately hunts you again right after you've been unhooked.
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Yeah I was trying to add some things to try to make it a little more balanced (even though it's difficult to balance anything in this game lol). That's why I was thinking about that Exposed effect for the rescuer, it works as compensation for the safety of the unhooked. An easier target for the killer that would be putting themselves at this risk by going for their teammate.
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I don’t think most people would define that as tunneling. That is just chasing. If you are running the killer for a long time that is a good thing for your team, assuming they are doing gens, and doesn’t need anything to reward you.
I think most consider tunneling to be when the killer goes after the person that was just unhooked. There are a few perks for that. Borrowed time and decisive strike do the job pretty well in my opinion.
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Make your chose does that already no?
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Yes! I had to google it because I don't have the Pig yet :P
But it's a similar idea, only instead of being a "punishment" from the killer, it's more like self-sacrifice from the rescuer.
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What if the unhooker SB away then leaves you to find the unhooker though
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I think a perk that grants someone being legitimately tunneled and camped an extra hook state would be a good way to deter camping and tunneling. Obviously such a perk would need VERY strict requirements to activate and potentially only be limited to a single survivor per match but I can't think of a better way to deter unnecessary and senseless tunnel/camping than to give a survivor more time to struggle and more time for the killer to lose the overall match for not actually attempting to play the game and patrol/chase etc etc
Basically something along the lines of Camaraderie
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That would make malicious tunneling so much more satisfying. I usually let everyone else go anyways when I want to face camp someone for whatever reason. Usually flashlights. Lol.
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This would hurt new players…especially if all four survivors are running it.
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That's not situational at all, 30 seconds in chase may not be nothing but its certainly not uncommon that would automatically become the best survivor perk in the game for survivors and would basically turn many loops in the game into infinites, which is not a good thing.
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14% is a bit much and I think 30 seconds is WAY too short a chase for something like that to activate :S
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Killer can chase survivor without triggering a chase.
This suggestion is trash, OP sucks dicks.
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What if the survivor and killer are evenly matched? How long should the chase last then? Shouldn't it be infinite?
Chases that last more than 30s aren't tunnelling, they're long chases, and they benefit the survivor. As a survivor you want a long chase, because it wastes more of the killers time.
Not all killers have a power that allows them to 'catch up' to survivors. That's what bloodlust is for, to aid basic M1 killers, and tip the scales in those long chases where the survivor clearly has the upper hand.
If a survivor can endlessly run the killer because of an apparent skill gap, then that survivor could potentially hold the game hostage. Imagine if it's the last survivor, killer has closed the hatch, but it's just an endless chase that never ends because the survivor is slightly better skilled at loops than the killer.
Without bloodlust, the killer is gaining no ground, and simply hoping for the survivor to make a mistake. That could happen.
With bloodlust, the killer has a chance to catch up after a while, and end the chase.
With your perk... the survivor gets a permanent sprint boost, and if they lose it, they get another one after 30 seconds.
Tunneling may not have one single definition, but there are certain things that definitely aren't tunnelling. Which includes things like; going afk, hooking different survivors, farming, not playing the game at all, and being in a chase for more than 30 seconds.
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You have maps, where you can run killer for several minutes, if he is bad enough to commit on you. 30 seconds is not really that long chase and this would create infinites, which is dumb.
This post is bad from start, because OP has no idea, what is tunneling.
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I do. It’s just everyone has their own idea of “tunneling”. I’ve been called “Tunneler” for chasing someone doing an unsafe hook! Sometimes other survivors hide so well you haven’t found anyone else yet. “Tunnel” is a term only within community. It doesn’t exist as a concept within the game. If it was a concept in the game it would likely be defined by how LONG a killer has chased you consistently. That is what I’m saying.
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Learn how to loop instead. DS is very much a great perk against "tunneling".
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